Dangerous Dilemma about Ukraine. Two main risky alternatives.

[BackAgain]

What to do about Putin’s atrocity in Ukraine present two main alternatives. (There are others, perhaps, but I’m hoping people can rationally discuss the two main alternatives.)
I suggest the two main options are:

1. Do whatever we can do to completely stop Putin and get him out of Ukraine. The pros include not allowing an aggressor to prevail. Here, the cons include Putin’s threat to treat any aid to Ukraine as an act of war and the escalation of that regional warfare into WWIII. Yes, that risk raises the specter of nuclear war.

2. Avoid those above risks by NOT doing things that might stop Putin. So, maybe sanctions and more sanctions. BUT no assistance with was materiel. No deal to get Polish MiGs into Ikrajnian hands. No more stingers. No airlifts to resupply besieged Kyiv with even food and medicine. Wish and hope for quick success via sanctions. Pros? Lessens the risk of WWIII. Cons? Putin succeeds and probably learns rhe “lesson” that the west can be relied upon to back down against his future aggressions.

Lady or the Tiger time.

How should it be analyzed?

 

[1srelluc]

LOL, till I saw this thread I had completely forgotten about the troubles in Ukraine.....Thanks for nuttin'.

 

[Mac-7]

What to do about Putin’s atrocity in Ukraine present two main alternatives. (There are others, perhaps, but I’m hoping people can rationally discuss the two main alternatives.)
I suggest the two main options are:

1. Do whatever we can do to completely stop Putin and get him out of Ukraine. The pros include not allowing an aggressor to prevail. Here, the cons include Putin’s threat to treat any aid to Ukraine as an act of war and the escalation of that regional warfare into WWIII. Yes, that risk raises the specter of nuclear war.

2. Avoid those above risks by NOT doing things that might stop Putin. So, maybe sanctions and more sanctions. BUT no assistance with was materiel. No deal to get Polish MiGs into Ikrajnian hands. No more stingers. No airlifts to resupply besieged Kyiv with even food and medicine. Wish and hope for quick success via sanctions. Pros? Lessens the risk of WWIII. Cons? Putin succeeds and probably learns rhe “lesson” that the west can be relied upon to back down against his future aggressions.

Lady or the Tiger time.

How should it be analyzed?

If we are that afraid of WWIII then russia and china hold all the cards and can do whatever they please

i dont support a no-fly zone, but polish jets to ukraine, and a total embargo of russian exports is not unreasonable

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What to do about Putin’s atrocity in Ukraine present two main alternatives. (There are others, perhaps, but I’m hoping people can rationally discuss the two main alternatives.)
I suggest the two main options are:

1. Do whatever we can do to completely stop Putin and get him out of Ukraine. The pros include not allowing an aggressor to prevail. Here, the cons include Putin’s threat to treat any aid to Ukraine as an act of war and the escalation of that regional warfare into WWIII. Yes, that risk raises the specter of nuclear war.

2. Avoid those above risks by NOT doing things that might stop Putin. So, maybe sanctions and more sanctions. BUT no assistance with was materiel. No deal to get Polish MiGs into Ikrajnian hands. No more stingers. No airlifts to resupply besieged Kyiv with even food and medicine. Wish and hope for quick success via sanctions. Pros? Lessens the risk of WWIII. Cons? Putin succeeds and probably learns rhe “lesson” that the west can be relied upon to back down against his future aggressions.

Lady or the Tiger time.

How should it be analyzed?

It's a battle between good and evil when appearances are opposite. The Evil Ones are hiding behind the Ukrainian people.

 

[BackAgain]

If we are that afraid of WWIII then russia and china hold all the cards and can do whatever they please

i dont support a no-fly zone, but polish jets to ukraine, and a total embargo of russian exports is not unreasonable

One of my concerns is that if our fear of WWIII causes us to just back down and slink away in the face of Putzin’s aggression, then Putzin WILL learn the lesson: that we can be relied upon to be craven cowards. In that event, there is nothing to cause him to even hesitate in seizing Moldova next. Etc. etc.

 

[Death-Ninja]

The sanctions Biden levies harm the American people, not Putin, indeed I am entirely certain that is the sole intended purpose of Biden, take advantage of crisis, turning it back upon Americans and using it to further strangle them into slavery! What transpires in Ukraine, was started by democrats way back when Clinton was president, when they assured Russia after the reunification of Germany, that we would not expand Nato further, then turned right around and did exactly that!

Biden, was involved at every level of this, and it was Obama/Biden who orchestrated the ouster of a pro-Russian president in 2013/14, and replaced him with a near total tool of the west, which continued with Velensky in 2019 that really steamed Putin. What you see in DC, and reflected in the propaganda broadcasts of USA's phony media, is anger over Putin cutting off the democrats from their money laundering vassal state, leaving them(democrats)with nothing by way of any remaining illicit income via Ukraine, especially The Biden clan.

What needs doing is to contain it, murder the democrat party into near extinction, and then work to build a responsible relationship with Russia, with actual responsible adults, not utterly decadent, totally evil, cultists of American Nazism....

 

[BackAgain]

It's a battle between good and evil when appearances are opposite. The Evil Ones are hiding behind the Ukrainian people.

I find that I’m often on a similar wave length with You, CF. But, not on that one. I would say that the evil one here is Putin. Even if others have done manipulative shit with Ukraine, their people don’t deserve what Putin is doing to them and that nation.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I’ve gotta go with Option 2.

As much as I despise Russia and Putin, this isn’t our fight and our involvement would likely result in WW3.

I think sanctions, verbal condemnation, and aid to Ukraine has been the perfect response to this Russian aggression. Seems like it has been pretty effective in uniting the world against Russia and strengthened our alliance with NATO.

The red line, to me, is if Russia attacks anyone in NATO. That would force our hand and I think Putin knows better than to try that.

 

[BackAgain]

I’m leaning toward option 1. While I reluctantly agree that this may not be our war, I think I’m more worried about teaching Putin the wrong lesson.

 

[gipper]

I’m leaning toward option 1. While I reluctantly agree that this may not be our war, I think I’m more worried about teaching Putin the wrong lesson.

God that’s dumb.

 

[Oddball]

What to do about Putin’s atrocity in Ukraine present two main alternatives. (There are others, perhaps, but I’m hoping people can rationally discuss the two main alternatives.)
I suggest the two main options are:

1. Do whatever we can do to completely stop Putin and get him out of Ukraine. The pros include not allowing an aggressor to prevail. Here, the cons include Putin’s threat to treat any aid to Ukraine as an act of war and the escalation of that regional warfare into WWIII. Yes, that risk raises the specter of nuclear war.

2. Avoid those above risks by NOT doing things that might stop Putin. So, maybe sanctions and more sanctions. BUT no assistance with was materiel. No deal to get Polish MiGs into Ikrajnian hands. No more stingers. No airlifts to resupply besieged Kyiv with even food and medicine. Wish and hope for quick success via sanctions. Pros? Lessens the risk of WWIII. Cons? Putin succeeds and probably learns rhe “lesson” that the west can be relied upon to back down against his future aggressions.

Lady or the Tiger time.

How should it be analyzed?

3) Have Zelensky deal with it.

You want ChiCom nukes deployed in Mexico?

 

[Mac-7]

One of my concerns is that if our fear of WWIII causes us to just back down and slink away in the face of Putzin’s aggression, then Putzin WILL learn the lesson: that we can be relied upon to be craven cowards. In that event, there is nothing to cause him to even hesitate in seizing Moldova next. Etc. etc.

Exactly

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What to do about Putin’s atrocity in Ukraine present two main alternatives. (There are others, perhaps, but I’m hoping people can rationally discuss the two main alternatives.)
I suggest the two main options are:

1. Do whatever we can do to completely stop Putin and get him out of Ukraine. The pros include not allowing an aggressor to prevail. Here, the cons include Putin’s threat to treat any aid to Ukraine as an act of war and the escalation of that regional warfare into WWIII. Yes, that risk raises the specter of nuclear war.

2. Avoid those above risks by NOT doing things that might stop Putin. So, maybe sanctions and more sanctions. BUT no assistance with was materiel. No deal to get Polish MiGs into Ikrajnian hands. No more stingers. No airlifts to resupply besieged Kyiv with even food and medicine. Wish and hope for quick success via sanctions. Pros? Lessens the risk of WWIII. Cons? Putin succeeds and probably learns rhe “lesson” that the west can be relied upon to back down against his future aggressions.

Lady or the Tiger time.

How should it be analyzed?

"Ikrajnian"

Who are they?

You might want to edit your post because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It's a battle between good and evil when appearances are opposite. The Evil Ones are hiding behind the Ukrainian people.

Thank you, Comrade!

 

[Hossfly]

Thank you, Comrade!

Frank is referring to the Khazarian Mafia.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Frank is referring to the Khazarian Mafia.

So? Frank is a moron of the highest order and always has been.

 

[BackAgain]

God that’s dumb.

Your commentary is profoundly useless. As always.

 

[Hossfly]

So? Frank is a moron of the highest order and always has been.

Who do you think Putin as fighting?

 

[BackAgain]

The sanctions Biden levies harm the American people, not Putin, indeed I am entirely certain that is the sole intended purpose of Biden, take advantage of crisis, turning it back upon Americans and using it to further strangle them into slavery! What transpires in Ukraine, was started by democrats way back when Clinton was president, when they assured Russia after the reunification of Germany, that we would not expand Nato further, then turned right around and did exactly that!

Biden, was involved at every level of this, and it was Obama/Biden who orchestrated the ouster of a pro-Russian president in 2013/14, and replaced him with a near total tool of the west, which continued with Velensky in 2019 that really steamed Putin. What you see in DC, and reflected in the propaganda broadcasts of USA's phony media, is anger over Putin cutting off the democrats from their money laundering vassal state, leaving them(democrats)with nothing by way of any remaining illicit income via Ukraine, especially The Biden clan.

What needs doing is to contain it, murder the democrat party into near extinction, and then work to build a responsible relationship with Russia, with actual responsible adults, not utterly decadent, totally evil, cultists of American Nazism....

Not sure how that will stop Putin. But I do see that Obumbler’s actions and Brandon’s lust for money via Ukrainian corruption may have helped foster a bad situation and helped push it down the road into a worse one.

 

[theHawk]

What to do about Putin’s atrocity in Ukraine present two main alternatives. (There are others, perhaps, but I’m hoping people can rationally discuss the two main alternatives.)
I suggest the two main options are:

1. Do whatever we can do to completely stop Putin and get him out of Ukraine. The pros include not allowing an aggressor to prevail. Here, the cons include Putin’s threat to treat any aid to Ukraine as an act of war and the escalation of that regional warfare into WWIII. Yes, that risk raises the specter of nuclear war.

2. Avoid those above risks by NOT doing things that might stop Putin. So, maybe sanctions and more sanctions. BUT no assistance with was materiel. No deal to get Polish MiGs into Ikrajnian hands. No more stingers. No airlifts to resupply besieged Kyiv with even food and medicine. Wish and hope for quick success via sanctions. Pros? Lessens the risk of WWIII. Cons? Putin succeeds and probably learns rhe “lesson” that the west can be relied upon to back down against his future aggressions.

Lady or the Tiger time.

How should it be analyzed?

All we ever needed to do was ensure Russia that Ukraine would not become NATO, and that Donbas and that other province be declared independent, and recognize Crimea is Russia.

Simple as that.