Creationists' theory in detail

[Hollie]

was that before or after noah and the prescribed religion of antiquity ... and also they said they would let it play out without interruption, that means there will only be one version of humanity in the end a triumph one or the other ... hopefully the desert religions will be long past.

Both. We know that God punished Adam and Eve, but their punishment was spelled out to them before their sin. Today, our punishment of the Lake of Fire is spelled out to us for our sin. Yet, because God loves us wholly and unconditionally, he gave us a way out through Jesus Christ. What is weird is atheists believe in God when they have to face him for their sins. They think he'll be a loving God after their deaths. This isn't the way God works. One has to repent for their sins first or else they end up spiritually dead.

Before Noah's time, it's my opinion that the world was much harsher. It seems hard to believe that angels roamed the Earth. There seemed to be a gateway from heaven to Earth (4th dimension to 3rd dimension?). However, God changed things before the global flood. God shortened our lives through gamma radiation to 120 years. He seemed to have closed the gateway after the global flood where we do not have physical presence of angels and demons anymore. We do see their influence and tricks though.

Today, I think God has shortened our lives even more to 90 years as the magnetic field has weakened. This is further evidence for a young Earth as the magnetic field would not last millions of years.

Anyway, the above is for the others here. It isn't for you as you just end up getting it jumbled up in your head.

“It seems hard to believe that angels roamed the Earth.”

You’re right. That seems hard to believe.

 

[Hollie]

I've explained this several times before, but the atheists and their scientists just do not get it.

The solar wind would've done us in millions of years as the magnetic field would've just let the sun shine in. You guys believe in CO2 damage which is false, but not solar wind.

"The solar wind streams plasma and particles from the sun out into space. Though the wind is constant, its properties aren't. What causes this stream, and how does it affect the Earth? "

What is solar wind?

What is Solar Wind?

Any way the solar wind blows, its effects can be felt throughout the solar system.

www.space.com

"The Earth’s magnetic field is an important barrier that protects us all from harmful solar radiation. Charged particles from solar wind bombard the Earth on a daily basis, but the strong force of the magnetic field keeps them at bay. "

How Earthâs magnetic field protects us from solar radiation

The Earth’s magnetic field is an important barrier that protects life on Earth from harmful solar radiation.

www.earth.com

"The earth is surrounded by a magnetic field that protects living things from solar radiation. Without it, life could not exist. That’s why scientists were surprised to discover that the field is quickly wearing down. At the current rate, the field and thus the earth could be no older than 20,000 years old."

Rapidly Decaying Magnetic Field

The earth is surrounded by a magnetic field that protects living things from solar radiation. Without it, life could not exist.

answersingenesis.org

You reap what you sow. That's getting exposed to solar wind while looking for aliens for some of the foolish here. It's useless to talk the fools to change their minds.

But... but....but....but I thought the universe was Fine Tuned

If I was a part of the gods Fine Tuning subcommittee, I would have suggested recommending to the gods that they not create the solar wind. They could just make humans radiation proof.

Like yeah, ya’ know?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

God loves you.

Yes, this is true. God loves us wholly and unconditionally, but while we are living. Once, we are dead he still loves us but there are those who went against him. It's my opinion that the believers have the one greatest commandment. However, it's also my opinion that the non-believers have their greatest commandment as the first commandment. They put Satan's Antibible of evolution in front of God. They have to obey their one commandment and put John 3:16 first but only they can repent, i.e. change their own minds.

And that is why I said I can only help Hollie when she decides.

You have something of a creepy fascination with proselytizing.

If your current gods aren’t getting converts, maybe you need new gods.

I can only help you when you decide to be honest with yourself and others.

LMFAO. Projecting don't look good on you. It's self deprecating. You really need to stop if you intend on having any credibility. You want converts so badly that you are stooping to a level of dishonesty that even you cannot be comfortable with. I want to demonstrate something for you. My board name is Porter Rockwell. He is associated with the Mormons. But, I don't accept the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet. The Mormons are good people, but they would never accept me as I don't believe in their one fundamental tenet of faith. I cite people I disagree with in this discussion. So, who are you trying to convince of that horse dung you're selling? The posters or yourself?

There is so much fear and anxiety in your posts that only the blind cannot see that you are desperate. If you keep following me around like a lost puppy, you will eventually find yourself being led out of the dark. Again, you keep wanting to interact with me. If you didn't want to change, you would simply ignore me. But, you can't and we all know why. You're trying to find people to agree with you and validate you through making false accusations against Christians. You think you can make a big deal out of attacking me as I look like the weak link - I don't appear to be fighting back. It's not working. Christians are not perfect. That's what you expect them to be. And you think if they lack the answer you want to hear, they are stupid. I get it. I really do. The problem is, it's okay to be afraid and it's okay that when your ego fails you, then you will have to ask people the uncomfortable questions that keep you from simply ignoring me and not saying anything. I don't have to convert you. You are doing it all on your own.

Rest assured. Yahweh will provide you with the answers you need... in due time.

 

[james bond]

But... but....but....but I thought the universe was Fine Tuned

If I was a part of the gods Fine Tuning subcommittee, I would have suggested recommending to the gods that they not create the solar wind. They could just make humans radiation proof.

Like yeah, ya’ know?

The universe was fine tuned for life on Earth as the parameters were what the atheist scientists discovered while investigating the big bang theory. It means the Anthropic Principle is correct and not Copernican Principle. The solar wind prevents panspermia and it follows that many planets do not have the magnetic field. Thus, one can't live on those planets.

Like yeah, ya' know. But you don't get it. You never do. Not in science nor religion.

 

[james bond]

Anyway, the above is for the others here. It isn't for you as you just end up getting it jumbled up in your head.

look who's equivocating - the one who reads their 10,000 page book of forgeries written by crucifiers -
or the Almighty's prescribed, spoken religion of antiquity - the triumph of good vs evil.
* can there be any but one answer.

It looks like you got it jumbled up in your head .

 

[Hollie]

God loves you.

Yes, this is true. God loves us wholly and unconditionally, but while we are living. Once, we are dead he still loves us but there are those who went against him. It's my opinion that the believers have the one greatest commandment. However, it's also my opinion that the non-believers have their greatest commandment as the first commandment. They put Satan's Antibible of evolution in front of God. They have to obey their one commandment and put John 3:16 first but only they can repent, i.e. change their own minds.

And that is why I said I can only help Hollie when she decides.

You have something of a creepy fascination with proselytizing.

If your current gods aren’t getting converts, maybe you need new gods.

I can only help you when you decide to be honest with yourself and others.

LMFAO. Projecting don't look good on you. It's self deprecating. You really need to stop if you intend on having any credibility. You want converts so badly that you are stooping to a level of dishonesty that even you cannot be comfortable with. I want to demonstrate something for you. My board name is Porter Rockwell. He is associated with the Mormons. But, I don't accept the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet. The Mormons are good people, but they would never accept me as I don't believe in their one fundamental tenet of faith. I cite people I disagree with in this discussion. So, what are you trying to convince of that horse dung you're selling? The posters or yourself?

There is so much fear and anxiety in your posts that only the blind cannot see that you are desperate. If you keep following me around like a lost puppy, you will eventually find yourself being led out of the dark. Again, you keep wanting to interact with me. If you didn't want to change, you would simply ignore me. But, you can't and we all know why. You're trying to find people to agree with you and validate you through making false accusations against Christians. You think you can make a big deal out of attacking me as I look like the weak link - I don't appear to be fighting back. It's not working. Christians are not perfect. That's what you expect them to be. And you think if they lack the answer you want to hear, they are stupid. I get it. I really do. The problem is, it's okay to be afraid and it's okay that when your ego fails you, then you will have to ask people the uncomfortable questions that keep you from simply ignoring me and not saying anything. I don't have to convert you. You are doing it all on your own.

Rest assured. Yahweh will provide you with the answers you need... in due time.

Well thanks for that. The Jimmy Swaggert style proselytizing is a real turn off. I understand that Christianity is a proselytizing religion but there’s something creepy about a religious extremist with their bibles duct taped into a double wide that is concerning.

Jimmy has the answers you need. Rest assured.

 

[alang1216]

This is just crazy. When have you seen any glaciers? That's only in the ice ages and it would take tremendous amounts of it over many, many, many years to show an effect.

I've walked on glaciers so I've seen what they can do but you're right, it would take tremendous amounts of it over many, many, many years to show an effect. I grew up on an island that only existed because a glacier had scrapped bare the land to the north and pushed that south until it was deposited at the end of the glacier. I'm hardly unique since that island was big enough for millions of people to live on. That is quite an effect, curious it never made it into the Bible. One might think it happened so long ago that the people who wrote the Bible never experienced it.

We cannot have the deepest oceans (former valleys) and the highest mountain ranges due to glaciers. None of it is observable. None of your religious beliefs of no God are observable. If they were, then many of us would believe it as yours would be truth. The scientific method would back you up. We would have millions and billions of years as fact.

The oceans are not former valleys and mountains are not due to glaciers.

Anyway, you can and will continue to argue your lies and false worldview as Satan wants.

I think if I was Satan and wanted to screw with people, I tell them to ignore the world that God created and do not use the intelligence that God gave them. I'd tell them to believe things they've never seen and trust men they've never met.

 

[Hollie]

But... but....but....but I thought the universe was Fine Tuned

If I was a part of the gods Fine Tuning subcommittee, I would have suggested recommending to the gods that they not create the solar wind. They could just make humans radiation proof.

Like yeah, ya’ know?

The universe was fine tuned for life on Earth as the parameters were what the atheist scientists discovered while investigating the big bang theory. It means the Anthropic Principle is correct and not Copernican Principle. The solar wind prevents panspermia and it follows that many planets do not have the magnetic field. Thus, one can't live on those planets.

Like yeah, ya' know. But you don't get it. You never do. Not in science nor religion.

It’s just odd the the facts refute the Fine Tuningmeme. I find it not at all surprising that the Fine Tuningmeme is a slogan used by the fundamentalist ministries who do no research but not used by the relevant science practitioners who do perform research. I’m guessing you never contemplated the obvious question: If the universe is fine-tuned for life, why is life such an extremely rare part of it?

You also make a mistake that is predictable coming from the fundie ministries. Fine Tuning is a subjective human judgment, which reduces or removes objective value from the anthropic principle argument.

As part of that "design", the laws of plate tectonics describe the physical characteristics of portions of the earth's crust which shifts and adjusts, and those elements together create shifting of landmasses we call earthquakes.

The gods established the laws of convection and rotation of planets, and those two elements together create swirling whirlwinds we call twisters. As the author of that “design", the gods could have created a completely different existence-- but didn't.

 

[james bond]

I've walked on glaciers so I've seen what they can do but you're right, it would take tremendous amounts of it over many, many, many years to show an effect. I grew up on an island that only existed because a glacier had scrapped bare the land to the north and pushed that south until it was deposited at the end of the glacier. I'm hardly unique since that island was big enough for millions of people to live on. That is quite an effect, curious it never made it into the Bible. One might think it happened so long ago that the people who wrote the Bible never experienced it.

We're discussing a global effect. The glaciers didn't happen. I believe yours happened to produce a local effect. Instead, the Bible has a true global catastrophe and effect -- the global flood, but you rather believe in the invisible effect of global glaciers. That's a fairy tale from Satan's Antibible of evolution.

The oceans are not former valleys and mountains are not due to glaciers.

Yes, they're due to the global flood of the fountains of the deep erupting, i.e. and underwater earthquake as the subterranean oceans rose up as well as the magma from around the core of the Earth. This magma cooled to produce the mountain ranges we have today and they pushed up the ranges already in place. Thus, we have the highest peaks and deepest oceans when humans have difficulty conquering. One has to be fit and equipped to do it.

I think if I was Satan and wanted to screw with people, I tell them to ignore the world that God created and do not use the intelligence that God gave them. I'd tell them to believe things they've never seen and trust men they've never met.

I disagree. People would not believe that. Satan told a huge lie with evolution so that people would believe it. He is the father of lies and disguises himself as an angel of light. I respect his power for what he has done and can do with temptation. If he wants to remain hidden, then he will.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, what are you trying to convince of that horse dung you're selling?

Hahaha...okay, shaman. You are literally all over this thread trying to sell an iron aged bill of goods. I love me some irony...

 

[Porter Rockwell]

God loves you.

Yes, this is true. God loves us wholly and unconditionally, but while we are living. Once, we are dead he still loves us but there are those who went against him. It's my opinion that the believers have the one greatest commandment. However, it's also my opinion that the non-believers have their greatest commandment as the first commandment. They put Satan's Antibible of evolution in front of God. They have to obey their one commandment and put John 3:16 first but only they can repent, i.e. change their own minds.

And that is why I said I can only help Hollie when she decides.

You have something of a creepy fascination with proselytizing.

If your current gods aren’t getting converts, maybe you need new gods.

I can only help you when you decide to be honest with yourself and others.

LMFAO. Projecting don't look good on you. It's self deprecating. You really need to stop if you intend on having any credibility. You want converts so badly that you are stooping to a level of dishonesty that even you cannot be comfortable with. I want to demonstrate something for you. My board name is Porter Rockwell. He is associated with the Mormons. But, I don't accept the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet. The Mormons are good people, but they would never accept me as I don't believe in their one fundamental tenet of faith. I cite people I disagree with in this discussion. So, what are you trying to convince of that horse dung you're selling? The posters or yourself?

There is so much fear and anxiety in your posts that only the blind cannot see that you are desperate. If you keep following me around like a lost puppy, you will eventually find yourself being led out of the dark. Again, you keep wanting to interact with me. If you didn't want to change, you would simply ignore me. But, you can't and we all know why. You're trying to find people to agree with you and validate you through making false accusations against Christians. You think you can make a big deal out of attacking me as I look like the weak link - I don't appear to be fighting back. It's not working. Christians are not perfect. That's what you expect them to be. And you think if they lack the answer you want to hear, they are stupid. I get it. I really do. The problem is, it's okay to be afraid and it's okay that when your ego fails you, then you will have to ask people the uncomfortable questions that keep you from simply ignoring me and not saying anything. I don't have to convert you. You are doing it all on your own.

Rest assured. Yahweh will provide you with the answers you need... in due time.

Well thanks for that. The Jimmy Swaggert style proselytizing is a real turn off. I understand that Christianity is a proselytizing religion but there’s something creepy about a religious extremist with their bibles duct taped into a double wide that is concerning.

Jimmy has the answers you need. Rest assured.

Jimmy don't, but you know who does. Don't know who you're in reference to. Swaggart??? Obviously, you don't know much about the people you criticize, but that's a part of the brainwashing you went through. Fear that which you don't understand. Don't know what the rest of your babbling is about. More stereotyping about a subject you know absolutely nothing about, apparently.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

So, what are you trying to convince of that horse dung you're selling?

Hahaha...okay, shaman. You are literally all over this thread trying to sell an iron aged bill of goods. I love me some irony...

You and Hollie don't comprehend too well, do you? I have nothing to sell and have not taken any sides on this thread. Lying isn't helping your cause. You're attracting flies and illiterates. IF I decide to lobby on behalf of Christians, you're just making it easy. Nobody is buying the B.S. you're selling.

 

[Hollie]

God loves you.

Yes, this is true. God loves us wholly and unconditionally, but while we are living. Once, we are dead he still loves us but there are those who went against him. It's my opinion that the believers have the one greatest commandment. However, it's also my opinion that the non-believers have their greatest commandment as the first commandment. They put Satan's Antibible of evolution in front of God. They have to obey their one commandment and put John 3:16 first but only they can repent, i.e. change their own minds.

And that is why I said I can only help Hollie when she decides.

You have something of a creepy fascination with proselytizing.

If your current gods aren’t getting converts, maybe you need new gods.

I can only help you when you decide to be honest with yourself and others.

LMFAO. Projecting don't look good on you. It's self deprecating. You really need to stop if you intend on having any credibility. You want converts so badly that you are stooping to a level of dishonesty that even you cannot be comfortable with. I want to demonstrate something for you. My board name is Porter Rockwell. He is associated with the Mormons. But, I don't accept the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet. The Mormons are good people, but they would never accept me as I don't believe in their one fundamental tenet of faith. I cite people I disagree with in this discussion. So, what are you trying to convince of that horse dung you're selling? The posters or yourself?

There is so much fear and anxiety in your posts that only the blind cannot see that you are desperate. If you keep following me around like a lost puppy, you will eventually find yourself being led out of the dark. Again, you keep wanting to interact with me. If you didn't want to change, you would simply ignore me. But, you can't and we all know why. You're trying to find people to agree with you and validate you through making false accusations against Christians. You think you can make a big deal out of attacking me as I look like the weak link - I don't appear to be fighting back. It's not working. Christians are not perfect. That's what you expect them to be. And you think if they lack the answer you want to hear, they are stupid. I get it. I really do. The problem is, it's okay to be afraid and it's okay that when your ego fails you, then you will have to ask people the uncomfortable questions that keep you from simply ignoring me and not saying anything. I don't have to convert you. You are doing it all on your own.

Rest assured. Yahweh will provide you with the answers you need... in due time.

Well thanks for that. The Jimmy Swaggert style proselytizing is a real turn off. I understand that Christianity is a proselytizing religion but there’s something creepy about a religious extremist with their bibles duct taped into a double wide that is concerning.

Jimmy has the answers you need. Rest assured.

Jimmy don't, but you know who does. Don't know who you're in reference to. Swaggart??? Obviously, you don't know much about the people you criticize, but that's a part of the brainwashing you went through. Fear that which you don't understand. Don't know what the rest of your babbling is about. More stereotyping about a subject you know absolutely nothing about, apparently.

If your feelings were hurt with the Jimmy Swaggert reference, consider getting new heroes.

 

[sealybobo]

''god did it''
''it's in the bible ''

that's all folks--that's all they have...
I constantly ask for details and that's what I get
no theory, nothing

Here is what ancient man captured in Genesis.

1. God created existence
2. Everything he created is good
3. What he created was done in steps
4. Man is a product of that creation
5. Man is unlike any other creature in creation
6. Man is made in God’s image in that he is a being which knows and creates
7. Man was told to go forth and be fruitful
8. Man was told to do as the original creator; to create for 6 days and then rest
9. Man knows right from wrong
10. Rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong when man does wrong, he rationalizes he didn’t do wrong
11. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success
12. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure
13. Pass it down to the next generation

worlds going to shit god floods the earth. 800 year old Noah repopulated the earth with the same assholes god drowned back in Noah’s day.

You seem to think god and Noah are responsible for your assholism. Are they?

And like our primitive ancestors you look around you and believe there must be a god and he put all this here for you.

 

[sealybobo]

So, what are you trying to convince of that horse dung you're selling?

Hahaha...okay, shaman. You are literally all over this thread trying to sell an iron aged bill of goods. I love me some irony...

You and Hollie don't comprehend too well, do you? I have nothing to sell and have not taken any sides on this thread. Lying isn't helping your cause. You're attracting flies and illiterates. IF I decide to lobby on behalf of Christians, you're just making it easy. Nobody is buying the B.S. you're selling.

I’m buying it. That makes three of us.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

IF I decide to lobby on behalf of Christians

You're lobbying on behalf of Christianity, not Christians. Which, really, is your way of lobbying on behalf of faith, which does not deserve any respect at all, much less the amount you seem to demand.

 

[sealybobo]

I sure hope you can quickly publish your version of the Bible correcting the mistakes.

but humans have souls

No they don't

That's the RINO crowd (Republicans In Name Only) posting in this thread. The Jews call them JINO. Maybe they're CINO, but in any case the same fundamentalists who insist on the literal truth of every word of the Bible, to their modern interpretation of ancient writing, also deny the existence of the human soul.

Humans are sentient, self-conscious, thinking and speaking creatures, and therefore they have souls.

Whether the soul is immortal is a different matter (of faith, belief, etc.) outside the realm of natural science bound by considerations of physical matter, time, and space.

Just because we’re smarter than all the other animals, just like they think earth was made for them, they also believe after this earth that was made for them, which can be cruel, there is another world called heaven where they themselves live like gods for all eternity.

Dolphins might have evolved enough brains that they too might ponder an afterlife. Does that mean there is a heaven for dolphins?

 

[sealybobo]

IF I decide to lobby on behalf of Christians

You're lobbying on behalf of Christianity, not Christians. Which, really, is your way of lobbying on behalf of faith, which does not deserve any respect at all, much less the amount you seem to demand.

He’s one of those guys who may not buy it but believes it does more good than harm and he thinks without it people would be worse.

 

[ding]

''god did it''
''it's in the bible ''

that's all folks--that's all they have...
I constantly ask for details and that's what I get
no theory, nothing

Here is what ancient man captured in Genesis.

1. God created existence
2. Everything he created is good
3. What he created was done in steps
4. Man is a product of that creation
5. Man is unlike any other creature in creation
6. Man is made in God’s image in that he is a being which knows and creates
7. Man was told to go forth and be fruitful
8. Man was told to do as the original creator; to create for 6 days and then rest
9. Man knows right from wrong
10. Rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong when man does wrong, he rationalizes he didn’t do wrong
11. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success
12. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure
13. Pass it down to the next generation

worlds going to shit god floods the earth. 800 year old Noah repopulated the earth with the same assholes god drowned back in Noah’s day.

You seem to think god and Noah are responsible for your assholism. Are they?

And like our primitive ancestors you look around you and believe there must be a god and he put all this here for you.

Physiologically speaking, they were no different than us. So maybe you are the primitive one.

I have examined the evidence. You haven’t. I don’t see how a logically thinking man having examined all of the available evidence could come to any other conclusion than there is intelligence behind creation.

Actually though, it wasn’t created for us. Not sure where you got that idea from.

 

[sealybobo]

''god did it''
''it's in the bible ''

that's all folks--that's all they have...
I constantly ask for details and that's what I get
no theory, nothing

Every once in a while, a thread needs to be restarted. There is one guy that got my attention on this subject. If you REALLY want a well thought out answer:





A more critical view is that all sides live their beliefs by faith. The atheists / nonbelievers have to come to grips with the fact that they cannot explain getting something from nothing. Ever atom, every molecule, every scintilla of matter comes from somewhere. So, evolutionists have a theory that has no more scientific weight than creationism. Watch Dr. Lisle. If he don't offer some things to consider, then maybe you've pursued the subject and will never get the answer you want.

Jason Lisle

Jason P. Lisle (1950–) was previously Director of Research at the Institute for Creation Research, as well as a speaker and researcher for Answers in Genesis.[2]

rationalwiki.org

In July 2010, Lisle announced that he was working on a research paper that would be published in the Answers Research Journal, a creation science journal controlled by Answers in Genesis.[11] He claimed that this paper would fully solve the starlight problem, and that publishing it in a peer reviewed journal would make it legitimate. However, considering he is publishing in the ARJ and not Science or Nature where such Earth-shattering revelations about physics belong (although Lisle denies this should be the case), some might suspect his "idea" isn't up to much. And an "idea" it is, as Lisle has admitted that he is just using "research that has already been published in secular journals"
I tend to do this whenever someone proposes a source. So what we have here is an actual scientist who proposes ideas that if true would revolutionize science and than subsequently decides that his ideas are best published not in Nature but in the ARJ(Answers Research Journal). Can you explain to me why that is?

I said the man makes me think. Not knowing who or what criteria he based his decisions on, I cannot answer for him. Personally, I have left the door open to the fact that the word "days" in Genesis only means equal periods of time. a "day" could be any measurement of time. Lisle calls a lot of commonly held beliefs into question. Unlike extremists who demand nonexistent / definitive proof from either side, I'm not good at accepting or rejecting any proposition based upon any personal prejudices. Neither do I claim that what I believe in is the whole truth and fact just because some group I like gives me bias confirmation. What I'm saying to you and other non-believers, just because the masses might be non-believers does not prove your proposition. As stated, every atom, every molecule, every scintilla of matter had an origination point. You cannot get something from nothing and no amount of psycho babble from people trying to use fifty dollar words to convey a ten cent concept can change that.

I have left the door open to the fact that the word "days" in Genesis only means equal periods of time. a "day" could be any measurement of time.

What you are doing is trying to move the goalposts when science rules out something.

What I'm saying to you and other non-believers, just because the masses might be non-believers does not prove your proposition.

First of most of the masses still believe in some form of a higher being as has been the case for millennia. Every single one of those people who believed claimed they knew. Science is actually the only thing that doesn't condition it's veracity on"the masses" it's only condition is that it's propositions are supported by evidence.

You cannot get something from nothing

And yet you believe in God. Who created him? If you say nobody to that question than you do believe in something from nothing.

By the way, something from nothing is a strawman put up by religious people to describe atheists. Nobody as far as I can tell really proposes that life or the universe came from nothing. At the worst what you'll get is "I don't know". Something that is a hell of a lot more honest answer than "I believe" god did it.

1) Science has not ruled out anything - Lisle shows that

2) You have no evidence - all you have is faith. You cannot get something from nothing. THAT is the bottom line

3) God came from somewhere if he exists. You find fault with my acceptance the He does exist and you expect me to blindly expect that whatever matter caused the earth to be formed just exists. Both our positions are rooted in faith since you lack any scientific evidence for your premise.

Science rules out stuff all the time. It comes out with a hypothesis and then tries to find ways to test it. If the tests show something else the hypothesis is ruled out. Lisle shows something else. What he shows that even people who have a PhD can ignore the scientific method of which peer review is a cornerstone in favor of religion.

I have plenty of evidence. I have evidence that the earth exists. I have evidence the Universe exists. I have evidence the Earth is way older than 6000 years. I have evidence that at the beginning of life on this planet no complex lifeforms existed. I can show that stars are way further than 6000 lightyears. I can prove that gravity exists. Etc. Etc. You, on the other hand, have absolutely zero proof that God exists. This means to me that God as an hypothesis is unproven and as such invalid.

Again, though you can prove that such things exist, you cannot prove their origination point. You don't seem to understand that you cannot get something from nothing. You have zero evidence to show from where all those things originate. You take their existence on faith, not science.

Christians have the secular history of Jesus Christ and his miracles. So, whether you believe he was the son of God or not, he gave testimony of our father in Heaven. Hate to break it to you, but that is evidence.

If I can prove all these things I can disprove the entire book of Genisis.

You don't seem to get that I never claimed something came from nothing. That is what you claim is my belief. I claim I don't know how we originated. I suspect a certain way but just like with God I feel that suspicion is not sufficiently proven for me to claim I know. On the other hand, the start of our universe is sufficiently proven for me to claim that I know. What happened before that I do not. See how it works? You on the other hand feel that God is a sufficient explanation. That's the difference between you and me.

There is absolutely no secular history that Jesus Christ existed. And even if there was, his claim he was speaking for God would not count as evidence. The lunatic asylum is full of people who claim they hear voices, and history is full of people who claimed they were speaking for some deity or another.

Yes, there has been evidence of Jesus. Denying it does little to disprove it. If you cannot tell us where matter originated, you've proven my premise.

Show me the evidence please than I'll be very interested.

As to me having to be able to tell you where matter comes from. Why? Does me not knowing something proves God? You do realize that's the God of the gaps argument? I know where elements come from. https://www.haystack.mit.edu/edu/pcr/Astrochemistry/3 - MATTER/nuclear synthesis.pdf Is that sufficient?

I looked at your link. It still presupposes that something exists. You have to take all that on faith. But, since you want to talk evidence, I'd like to share something I found (and I post stuff that makes you think - it has NOTHING to do with what I personally believe or disbelieve. It's just evidence to be considered):

Charles Darwin Was Not A Scientist

Editor's Note: We appreciate all the contributions sent to us over the last month on whether a frum Jew can - or should - accept the theory of evolution considering that it doesn't easily fit the text

www.jewishpress.com

Your link is from someone with a clear agenda. From the Jewish aPress: “Josh Greenberger is author of "Fossil Discoveries Disprove Evolution Beyond A Doubt.”

As a blogger who criticizes Darwin as a non-scientist, this guy has no credentials for anything but opinion.

Evolution (common descent with modification) was not some idea that Darwin came up with out of thin air which he later searched for ways of proving. That is not how it happened. Rather he took all the then known facts/observations (gathered by other scientists of the time) and explained them in what today we would consider a scientific manner (a manner that was testable, not appealing to supernatural gods).

In the particular case of the fossil record, it was well known to geologists & paleontologists long before Darwin wrote Origin of Species that there was a pattern of change in the fossil record; the farther back one went in the record there were more differences in the animals represented vs. those alive today. It was also well known that there were fossils of animals that appeared to be intermediate in form between both various fossil groups and fossil and living groups.

Did you look at the guy's credentials? Since I'm not Jewish and NOT a true believer of a 6 "day" creation, I don't agree with every statement that everybody makes. I used the opinions of others and what are those on your side doing? They are inferring I believe everything I read and should be held accountable for the statements of everybody on the face of the earth that disagrees with you.

I looked at the guys credentials and he identifies himself as a computer consultant. Maybe I misunderstood your intent but posters usually link to that which they believe supports their respective positions.

Most posters don't want to be objective and open minded. None of the people I cited would agree with me, but it's their line of work, so I have to take all the evidence and interpretations into consideration.

How can I be objective and open-minded when people make assertions that they don't support?

I'm quoting varying interpretations. I'm not making assertions. Better check a dictionary. Look, all my critics here claim my sources have an agenda. They do... and you do. My agenda is to get to the bottom line. I don't need semantics, people hiding behind 50 dollar words to convey a ten cent idea, and psychobabble doesn't impress me. My agenda is understanding. Your agenda is so important that you cannot afford to have your views scrutinized by various others. You're really mad because you get challenged. Sorry, I don't get it. I don't live in an echo chamber nor do I need to talk down to anyone here.

Being wholly objective, I cannot defend what I believe in on this thread. It has flaws. And your argument does too. Debaters are kind of like litigators. But, I'd like to share something with you: if you were to argue evidence in a court of law, the best preparation is to know the other guy's argument better than he knows it. You also have to know the flaws in your own arguments. In the instant case, non-believers simply do not have the evidence to prove their case. At least one poster admitted not knowing the origin of all time, space, and matter. All sides ultimately are relying on faith.

Christians will never be accepted by non-believers. Challenging their intelligence, knowledge or integrity based upon what others with an agenda have to say isn't very objective. So, I cite people that I don't necessarily agree with on every point. If all nonbelievers have is worrying about whether or not organizations of non-believers give the creationist their seal of approval only says to me, nonbelievers realize they don't have factual points so they have to attack the other guy's sources. But, I'm trying to get to the bottom line so if you attack sources because they are not accepted by organizations that have their own agenda that contradicts you, it's not changing the balance of the facts.

When you say there's secular proof of the existence of Jesus that's an assertion, not an interpretation. When you say the writers personally knew Jesus that's an assertion. As for not needing semantics?

I'm quoting varying interpretations. I'm not making assertions. Better check a dictionary.

You could have fooled me.

And no. Admitting that you don't know the origins of time, matter, and space, although time and space we know originated from the Big Bang. Einstein e=mc2 shows that. And we know the Big Bang happened because of the lines of evidence. But let's give you the origin of matter. It is not a weakness in the argument. We can see, feel, touch, and even smell matter. So it's existence requires no faith at all. I don't know who your mother is but it requires no faith on my part to know you have one.

God, on the other hand, does require faith. You can not see him. The books written about him requires believing fantastical things and are often contradictory. No evidence of him is ever presented. At least not evidence that can withstand the process of the scientific method.

Your standard of proof for existence - what you refer to as science has no explanation other than you know some things exist that you sense. You have every right to think that constitutes evidence. That, however does not necessarily make you right.

The Bible gives a logical explanation for the creation of man and our world. But, my view of evidence is in the fact that the Bible has a God that foretold the future in great detail... something your science cannot do. Neither can your science stop what the Bible foretold for the future. We have different standards. What you need to be thinking about is why it is so imperative for you to force me to accept your proposition. Oddly, the Bible predicts that people like you would do that. A wise man once remarked:
"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

There is a reason you're investing so much time trying to dodge, deflect and circumvent an uncomfortable truth while inferring something is wrong with those who see the same evidence you do and come to an opposite conclusion based on the facts. Matter exists. Of that there is no dispute. But, where did it come from? You don't know because you cannot imagine nothingness and neither can I.

can You tell us what these prophecies are that came true that convinced you god must be real? I’ve yet to see any such evidence.

and can you show us the Bible’s logical explanation for the creation of man?

why is is so important to stop your type of ignorance? It’s in your post. You said science can’t stop what the Bible says is coming. This is one reason idiot creationists deny global warming. Becaus3 the Bible didn’t foretell it, you don’t worry about it. That’s crazy ignorant