Creationists' theory in detail

[Porter Rockwell]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

the goal is to triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting, the religion of antiquity that's all one needs for a never ending quest till the end on planet Earth and the opportunities offered through the natural environment.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

your first empty attempt of a post was not enough, sorry, you failed the second time around as well -

no doubt the 1st century and the crucified religious itinerant began the era of personal responsibility over religious dogma for the destiny of their spirits admission into the Everlasting.

You are a classic fail. Your arguments are so weak that you have multiple accounts and pretend to "win" by using multiple personalities. Big surprise: this ain't no debate and you aren't winning anything except the disgust of intelligent people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Atheists claim to know and use science, but they don't. They know squat.

This is my new hypothesis. Look at the feces for brains posters like Hollie, RWS, harmonica, Toddsterpatriot, and more. They ask questions but never learn anything. It's a waste of time to answer their questions. The best way is to ask them questions and see if they'll answer. Then, one knows that they are putting their brains to work. That they are learning something. Quid pro quo.

Yet, that isn't the big deal. The big deal is NOT knowing the basics of science. They barely know the basics of Christianity or the Bible. It's just a waste of time exchanging two or more posts with them. They are practically hopeless until they repent and actually listen and learn something. They need to work, challenge, and expand their brain cells even at the most elementary levels. Thus, one can't even get past the first level. Maybe it's the zero or negative level for them. Self-rationalization and Satan has just jumbled their brains and worldview.

Atheists claim to know and use science, but they don't. They know squat.

Is that like when you said science can't explain orbital physics but the Bible can?
Is that an example of a Creationist using science?

It's a waste of time to answer their questions.

If you say so, Lucifer.

 

[james bond]

If you say so, Lucifer.

In terms of creation time, you'll find what Lucifer has become soon enough.

Furthermore, if we follow up on atheist's logic: If not God, then Satan. After hearing that, then the atheists claim not Satan, but how can that be when they don't believe in Satan either. Thus, if not God, then Satan.

It fits my hypothesis. No need to help the doomed unless they repent, i.e. change their mind.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you say so, Lucifer.

In terms of creation time, you'll find what Lucifer has become soon enough.

Furthermore, if we follow up on atheist's logic: If not God, then Satan. After hearing that, then the atheists claim not Satan, but how can that be when they don't believe in Satan either. Thus, if not God, then Satan.

It fits my hypothesis. No need to help the doomed unless they repent, i.e. change their mind.

You're lying, Lucifer.

 

[Hollie]

Atheists claim to know and use science, but they don't. They know squat.

This is my new hypothesis. Look at the feces for brains posters like Hollie, RWS, harmonica, Toddsterpatriot, and more. They ask questions but never learn anything. It's a waste of time to answer their questions. The best way is to ask them questions and see if they'll answer. Then, one knows that they are putting their brains to work. That they are learning something. Quid pro quo.

Yet, that isn't the big deal. The big deal is NOT knowing the basics of science. They barely know the basics of Christianity or the Bible. It's just a waste of time exchanging two or more posts with them. They are practically hopeless until they repent and actually listen and learn something. They need to work, challenge, and expand their brain cells even at the most elementary levels. Thus, one can't even get past the first level. Maybe it's the zero or negative level for them. Self-rationalization and Satan has just jumbled their brains and worldview.

Gee whiz. Where’s that Christian charity I’ve heard Christians possess. Óddly, I see the Christians in this forum as the angriest, most reactive religionists.

You possess some rather important information - the planets’ variable gravity in the course of a mere 6,000 years.

Won’t you share?

 

[Hollie]

If you say so, Lucifer.

In terms of creation time, you'll find what Lucifer has become soon enough.

Furthermore, if we follow up on atheist's logic: If not God, then Satan. After hearing that, then the atheists claim not Satan, but how can that be when they don't believe in Satan either. Thus, if not God, then Satan.

It fits my hypothesis. No need to help the doomed unless they repent, i.e. change their mind.

“...if not god, then Satan”

Suppose they’re one and the same? Could be!

 

[Hollie]

I would need a specific set of circumstances to address your questions. Do your questions apply to our environment currently or to conditions 6,000 years ago during lower gravity.

That’s relevant because if the evilutionist atheist scientists are fooling us about gravity bending light that reaches us from stars millions of light years away, (gravitational lensing), then we need to correct those errors. What do the Bibles tell us about gravitational lensing?

Answer my questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

You couldn't answer my first one.

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

The second one's a skosh more complicated, but a person who uses science to back up their religious beliefs of atheism, i.e. no God or gods, should be a breeze to answer. Not you.

Fail.

Anything you can offer in terms of the bibles presenting a comprehensive description of gravitational lensing?

Because we know (as you identified) with gravity being weaker 6,000 years ago and no universe (only the firmament), the Bibles may hold information the atheist evilutionist scientists don’t understand.

 

[james bond]

Gee whiz. Where’s that Christian charity I’ve heard Christians possess.

You got it, but do not accept graciously and by repenting. Thus, you'll get it after your death. Like I said, patience and then you'll be able to wait easily.

“...if not god, then Satan”

Suppose they’re one and the same? Could be!

Even the most basic logic, you cannot understand. It's an either/or statement. You get the latter or Satan.

the atheist evilutionist scientists don’t understand.

Finally, you get something right -- the atheist evilutionist scientists. That is very descriptive and true.

 

[BreezeWood]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

the goal is to triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting, the religion of antiquity that's all one needs for a never ending quest till the end on planet Earth and the opportunities offered through the natural environment.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

your first empty attempt of a post was not enough, sorry, you failed the second time around as well -

no doubt the 1st century and the crucified religious itinerant began the era of personal responsibility over religious dogma for the destiny of their spirits admission into the Everlasting.

You are a classic fail. Your arguments are so weak that you have multiple accounts and pretend to "win" by using multiple personalities. Big surprise: this ain't no debate and you aren't winning anything except the disgust of intelligent people.

.

You are a classic fail. Your arguments are so weak that you have multiple accounts and pretend to "win" by using multiple personalities. Big surprise: this ain't no debate and you aren't winning anything except the disgust of intelligent people.

odd coming from someone who requested a moderator close and lock their own thread, I'm just recalling it was you but not really certain if you felt you had nothing more to contribute why not just stop participating -

all your responses were the same accusing the one poster of hijacking your thread when in reality you hijacked it yourself by repeatedly accusing them of the same tactics of multiple accounts, being a sock as you are doing presently ...

* Hint - get a life, better yet burn your bible.

 

[Hollie]

Gee whiz. Where’s that Christian charity I’ve heard Christians possess.

You got it, but do not accept graciously and by repenting. Thus, you'll get it after your death. Like I said, patience and then you'll be able to wait easily.

“...if not god, then Satan”

Suppose they’re one and the same? Could be!

Even the most basic logic, you cannot understand. It's an either/or statement. You get the latter or Satan.

the atheist evilutionist scientists don’t understand.

Finally, you get something right -- the atheist evilutionist scientists. That is very descriptive and true.

What I got were your usual, emotional outbursts. This is another case of Christian zealots failing to gain converts with their hard-sell proselytizing which results in their most base instincts to lash out like a petulant child.

I would reconsider preaching about logic. Nothing about supernaturalism is logical. Similarly, Blind, unquestioned faith isn't a tool-- it is a conclusion. Faith by definition is not a path to knowledge -- else, if the item is known, it no longer needs faith. Faith, theistically defined as the substance of things "hoped for"; the evidence of things not seen. I "hope for" a number of things-- but "hoping" is not enough-- there has to be evidence, and not evidence that is in a burqa of some supernatural realm.

Why hurl your gods at me? Since reason won't suffice to support an irrational claim (i.e., supernatural beings being real, not fictional), the religious zealot is forced to retreat to using their gods in cheap attempts at threats and coercion.

Ah, yes. Your oft used slogan of “atheist, evilutionist scientist”. Of course, these are the same scientists who have given us a first, but incomplete understanding of the cosmos, the scientists who cure disease, the scientists who land rovers on Mars while the charlatans at creation ministries argue a flat earth.

You never did give us anything to support your “low gravity” claim. Have you abandoned that claim?

 

[james bond]

What I got were your usual, emotional outbursts.

You got one emotional outburst from me. OTOH, it's you who have been emotional when there is no need. I just see you as hollieburnsinhell. Why not just accept what you are and have become? NBD. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.

As for the rest, it's more questions from you to me which I don't care to answer nor discuss with atheists. The exception is to one who is quid pro quo or the atheist who has repented their atheism. I don't care about what happens to atheists just as they could care diddly about me. They have their own beliefs to live by.

 

[Hollie]

What I got were your usual, emotional outbursts.

You got one emotional outburst from me. OTOH, it's you who have been emotional when there is no need. I just see you as hollieburnsinhell. Why not just accept what you are and have become? NBD. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.

As for the rest, it's more questions from you to me which I don't care to answer nor discuss with atheists. The exception is to one who is quid pro quo or the atheist who has repented their atheism. I don't care about what happens to atheists just as they could care diddly about me. They have their own beliefs to live by.

Why would I burn in Hell? Existence becomes completely harmonious when you take the gods out of the equation, doesn't it? No issues at all -- not a single paradox. We have free will, we write our own destiny as we move through linear time, we are responsible for the kind of world we live in, the "plan" is within our hands and is imperfect because we are imperfect, and thus changes-- exactly as it seems to be playing out -- I'd say all concerns are satisfied once you abdicate the notion that there are supernatural realms involved with our existence.

Why the need to use your gods in cheap attempts to force your fears and superstitions on others?

It seems it is you who needs to “repent”, to remove the hate /self-hate you harbor and change your life for the better.

 

[zaangalewa]

I'll explain it to zaangalewa if he comes back and responds.

What a bad luck that you don't speak German - then I could bring your ideas into a zoo for extinct ideas, which never had existed anywhere in the Christian world.

 

[zaangalewa]

why would I burn in Hell? ...

Why you could burn in hell? For example do you argue together with the anti-Christian James Bond against all "heartful" or "soulful" Christians on planet Earth. Your and his senseless attacks cost time and power. And this minimizes energies for help - while today for example in times of Corona many people need help and encouragement.

But it is not the job of Christians to send anyone into hell. Only god - and no none else - knows, who goes to hell. That's a very very very old Christian doctrine. It's not wise to ignore this doctrine. For sure it's never wrong to try to stay to be a friend of Christ and his words.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

the goal is to triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting, the religion of antiquity that's all one needs for a never ending quest till the end on planet Earth and the opportunities offered through the natural environment.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

your first empty attempt of a post was not enough, sorry, you failed the second time around as well -

no doubt the 1st century and the crucified religious itinerant began the era of personal responsibility over religious dogma for the destiny of their spirits admission into the Everlasting.

You are a classic fail. Your arguments are so weak that you have multiple accounts and pretend to "win" by using multiple personalities. Big surprise: this ain't no debate and you aren't winning anything except the disgust of intelligent people.

.

You are a classic fail. Your arguments are so weak that you have multiple accounts and pretend to "win" by using multiple personalities. Big surprise: this ain't no debate and you aren't winning anything except the disgust of intelligent people.

odd coming from someone who requested a moderator close and lock their own thread, I'm just recalling it was you but not really certain if you felt you had nothing more to contribute why not just stop participating -

all your responses were the same accusing the one poster of hijacking your thread when in reality you hijacked it yourself by repeatedly accusing them of the same tactics of multiple accounts, being a sock as you are doing presently ...

* Hint - get a life, better yet burn your bible.

Once you've made the same point a thousand times (the thread was 1200 posts long) and you are participating under at least two different people, there is no reason to have the thread. Everybody here should read it. A thread with two people saying the same thing over and over isn't entertaining. It's just you being a dumb ass. If somebody gave a rip and were participating, it would have been different. I didn't ask for it to be locked until a half dozen posters alerted me to the fact that it was you and I saying the same thing over and over. And, no matter how many times you say the same old, same old, you get the same old, same old. I didn't like doing the same thing over and over again, thinking we would get a different result. And you're bitching??? Sorry, dude, I don't participate in idiocy. That is why I'm not going to engage you on this topic.

If a Bible threatens your way of life, you have problems that I cannot counsel you on via a discussion board.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Lucifer ...

Lucifer means lightbringer. Lucifer is another word for the planet Venus, the "morning star". The planet Venus is a symbol for love. About the morning star is written the following text in our holy books:

-----
For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.
-----

-----

 

[zaangalewa]

Porter Rockwell

All the "Lucifer" stories are anti-Christian nonsense from people, who don't have a big idea about the Christian religion, who don't have a big idea about the Christian rebound in god. Lucifer never was a name of Satan (="the challenger").

Now we have the challenge "Corona" - what means we all will have to fight for the life of everyone. That's what "the love" says to us all. The love says to no one to have to spread an antiproductive fear.



PS: The time you need to clean the hands with soap, so the hands will be clean from Corona viruses, is about the time it needs to speak the Lords prayer.

 

[RWS]

I don't think an austronaut will agree with you, after he had to live a longer time without gravity. I fear our bodies get damned serios problems under such living conditions. We need gravity.

You're changing what I said just to show what you want to believe. One needs to understand gravity and it's a force, if it is a "force," that many of us do not understand. Even the scientists do not understand it although we can measure it quite accurately in most places in the universe with Newton's equation. Lets' see how you do with these simple questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

ETA: I won't be mocked by an atheist who doesn't understand science such as that low brow internet atheist RWS. They base their religious beliefs of no God on science and yet they're the ones on the internet with some of the worst understanding of science.

I'm a low brow internet atheist? Really? Lol!

 

[RWS]

I don't think an austronaut will agree with you, after he had to live a longer time without gravity. I fear our bodies get damned serios problems under such living conditions. We need gravity.

You're changing what I said just to show what you want to believe. One needs to understand gravity and it's a force, if it is a "force," that many of us do not understand. Even the scientists do not understand it although we can measure it quite accurately in most places in the universe with Newton's equation. Lets' see how you do with these simple questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

ETA: I won't be mocked by an atheist who doesn't understand science such as that low brow internet atheist RWS. They base their religious beliefs of no God on science and yet they're the ones on the internet with some of the worst understanding of science.

The hammer hits the ground first, the feather is held up by friction from the atmosphere.

Are you really that dumb?

 

[RWS]

I don't think an austronaut will agree with you, after he had to live a longer time without gravity. I fear our bodies get damned serios problems under such living conditions. We need gravity.

You're changing what I said just to show what you want to believe. One needs to understand gravity and it's a force, if it is a "force," that many of us do not understand. Even the scientists do not understand it although we can measure it quite accurately in most places in the universe with Newton's equation. Lets' see how you do with these simple questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

ETA: I won't be mocked by an atheist who doesn't understand science such as that low brow internet atheist RWS. They base their religious beliefs of no God on science and yet they're the ones on the internet with some of the worst understanding of science.

I'm a low brow internet atheist? Really? Lol!

You're a low brow internet terrorist!