Creationists' theory in detail

[Hollie]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

Speaking of new material, your stuttering and mumbling old slogans.

I’ve noticed a pattern of behavior among the Bible thumpers and that revolves around their need to project their fears and superstitions on others.

Ultimately, If you are comforted by your religious beliefs, there is no reason why you need a compulsion to revile those who don’t share your partisan beliefs in partisan gods. There is nothing that separates your claims to gods from claims to gods who preceded your gods. I note that your belief being unsupported and lacking in demonstration may mean you’re living an illusion. You actually acknowledged that with your “I’ll believe just in case” comment.

You’re not winning converts in this thread. When you project your revulsion for those who don’t accept a 6,000 year old planet or the “low gravity” proposal, (and you don’t understand why), you need a different audience.

I'm not looking for converts. That is where you are lying to people. If deflection, projection and wishful thinking work for you, then by all means... and pattern of Bible thumpers??? Organized religion has a problem with me, but nice try. You are the one who reviles me, so projecting again.

Proselytizing as you do suggests you’re looking for converts. It’s just remarkable how the religious extremists get angry and emotive when their claims to partisan gods are challenged.

I suppose you need reminding that you’re posting in a public forum. Not everyone is going to agree with your claims to supernaturalism. If you’re not emotionally or intellectually prepared for challenges to specious, unsupported positions, don’t post them.

 

[Hollie]

39 pages now and still no "General Theory of Supernatural Creation"

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Certainly true. However, that translation does not alert the reader to where the Hebrew imperfect verb state (=action in progress not yet complete) is being used in the creation account. For example, light did not suddenly penetrate the accretion envelopment around earth - it was a gradual process.

Also, in Genesis 1:1 heaven(s) is plural while earth is singular in the original Hebrew text.

Some translations do not note that the Hebrew 'created' (bara) in Gen. 1:1 is different than the Hebrew word for made/make in Gen.1:16. My favorite Bible translation does - for example, this footnote on Genesis 1:16

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"“And . . . proceeded to make.” Heb., wai·yaʹʽas (from ʽa·sahʹ). Different from “create” (ba·raʼʹ) found in vss 1, 21, 27; 2:3. Progressive action indicated by the imperfect state. See App 3C."

I think you’ve highlighted another of the many flaws with so-called “holy texts”: the endless levels of interpretation and why the gods would would allow that. Aside from the fact that the texts were written decades and even longer after the alleged events, we also know they were written in a period of time of myth and superstition. The moment you break from the literal descriptions within any of the various holy texts, you fall into the circular loop of interpretation and what, if any, is the real interpretation. Which means, we’ve looped back to the issue of translation but then we’d get into problems with shoddy translation and why god would allow that, etc. (and that is a different thread)?

Why not simply be clear and do not allow for such confusion? Why is it that the theistic perspective offers gods who confounds us, but the materialist perspective offers one that makes sense-- a star is a million light years away because it's taken light a million years to get here. Simple. Explainable. Understandable. No need to assert mysterious beings using mysterious ways we can never know, precluding us from ever finding out.

Let’s explore this a bit further – the tendency to interpret length of days in the Genesis tale because this puts believers firmly on a slippery slope. The story doesn't indicate anything is particularly metaphorical-- it seems to be in the context of "This happened, then this happened". Suddenly you can play fast and loose with the term "day" (and I know there are numerous translations of the word "day" from the Hebrew and Greek, but then we'd get (yet again), in the problems with shoddy translation (yet again), and why god(s) would allow that. Well, if you can play fast and loose with the term "day", then so can anyone with... oh, the parting of the Red Sea. The Flood. The resurrection.

And yes, as a materialist, I can dissect the stories because I believe them to be wholly fabricated. Believers have a lot less latitude if you wish to assert a perfect god is the author of all of this, directly or otherwise.

 

[ding]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his their laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine.

if that were true rockwell, following their law you would know better than read the christian bible and live its history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - what reward can there be in remaining a sinner anything including failure would be better than that.

Every time you tangle with me and start getting you hind quarters kicked, you bring in your multiple personalities under different accounts - and now more than one poster sees it for what it is. Your blathering needs validation, so you can create as many board personalities as you like. What you say is meaningless and not worthy of any response... except to remind you that you cannot sustain honest discourse. At least you have one proselyte.

.

and now more than one poster sees it for what it is.

no, you and your gang haven't seen the light of day for so long a candlestick would render you asunder your lack of rapport.

I don't have a gang; one account and no back up. I don't know anybody here. When I was much younger there was a guy on the radio in Knoxville, Tennessee. He did about three separate and distinct voices and held entire conversations for a couple of hours at a time. I remember that one of the characters was "Old Man Schultz." You remind me of him. Your "gang" is one guy - but, that one you did every day back on that other religion thread (that went 1200 or posts) took a lot of your time. You do the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result.

and now more than one poster sees it for what it is.

I don't have a gang; one account and no back up.

shocking -

what is remarkable is that your gang all have the same delusions and share them together as though you think you have hit a gold mine ...

Having peace through the storm is hitting a gold mine. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Where do you draw your strength from?

Having peace through the storm is hitting a gold mine. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Where do you draw your strength from?

by not being brain dead - through christ - meaning through yourself ... literally, start living a real life.

the goal is to triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting, the religion of antiquity that's all one needs for a never ending quest till the end on planet Earth and the opportunities offered through the natural environment.

the best outcome for the textural desert religions as they are interpreted by the fallen is a bonfire.

So you have nothing.

I have chosen the better portion and it shall not be taken from me.

 

[james bond]

I would need a specific set of circumstances to address your questions. Do your questions apply to our environment currently or to conditions 6,000 years ago during lower gravity.

That’s relevant because if the evilutionist atheist scientists are fooling us about gravity bending light that reaches us from stars millions of light years away, (gravitational lensing), then we need to correct those errors. What do the Bibles tell us about gravitational lensing?

Answer my questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

You couldn't answer my first one.

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

The second one's a skosh more complicated, but a person who uses science to back up their religious beliefs of atheism, i.e. no God or gods, should be a breeze to answer. Not you.

Fail.

 

[ding]

the goal is to triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting, the religion of antiquity that's all one needs for a never ending quest till the end on planet Earth and the opportunities offered through the natural environment.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

 

[Hollie]

I would need a specific set of circumstances to address your questions. Do your questions apply to our environment currently or to conditions 6,000 years ago during lower gravity.

That’s relevant because if the evilutionist atheist scientists are fooling us about gravity bending light that reaches us from stars millions of light years away, (gravitational lensing), then we need to correct those errors. What do the Bibles tell us about gravitational lensing?

Answer my questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

You couldn't answer my first one.

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

The second one's a skosh more complicated, but a person who uses science to back up their religious beliefs of atheism, i.e. no God or gods, should be a breeze to answer. Not you.

Fail.

I think you’re getting unnecessarily flustered.

You make a continued error in your nonsensical claim: “religious beliefs of atheism”. It’s a slogan that the religious zealots use but one they can’t define.

Just curious. How much less was the force of gravity 6,000 years ago vs. today and how did you measure it?

 

[james bond]

I think you’re getting unnecessarily flustered.

You make a continued error in your nonsensical claim: “religious beliefs of atheism”. It’s a slogan that the religious zealots use but one they can’t define.

Just curious. How much less was the force of gravity 6,000 years ago vs. today and how did you measure it?

You failed. It goes to show you can't even answer the simplest gravity questions. Thus, no need to explain it to the likes of you.

Didn't I just say that atheists claim to know and use science, but they don't. They know squat.

 

[Hollie]

I think you’re getting unnecessarily flustered.

You make a continued error in your nonsensical claim: “religious beliefs of atheism”. It’s a slogan that the religious zealots use but one they can’t define.

Just curious. How much less was the force of gravity 6,000 years ago vs. today and how did you measure it?

You failed. It goes to show you can't even answer the simplest gravity questions. Thus, no need to explain it to the likes of you.

Gravity is complicated when it changes. How much less force of gravity was there 6,000 years ago. Why do you believe it was less, then?

 

[james bond]

Atheists claim to know and use science, but they don't. They know squat.

This is my new hypothesis. Look at the feces for brains posters like Hollie, RWS, harmonica, Toddsterpatriot, and more. They ask questions but never learn anything. It's a waste of time to answer their questions. The best way is to ask them questions and see if they'll answer. Then, one knows that they are putting their brains to work. That they are learning something. Quid pro quo.

Yet, that isn't the big deal. The big deal is NOT knowing the basics of science. They barely know the basics of Christianity or the Bible. It's just a waste of time exchanging two or more posts with them. They are practically hopeless until they repent and actually listen and learn something. They need to work, challenge, and expand their brain cells even at the most elementary levels. Thus, one can't even get past the first level. Maybe it's the zero or negative level for them. Self-rationalization and Satan has just jumbled their brains and worldview.

 

[james bond]

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

I forgot BreezeWood. He's on a different level of weirdoness.

 

[james bond]

I'll explain it to zaangalewa if he comes back and responds.

 

[BreezeWood]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

the goal is to triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting, the religion of antiquity that's all one needs for a never ending quest till the end on planet Earth and the opportunities offered through the natural environment.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

Sounds like human secularism gibberish.

your first empty attempt of a post was not enough, sorry, you failed the second time around as well -

no doubt the 1st century and the crucified religious itinerant began the era of personal responsibility over religious dogma for the destiny of their spirits admission into the Everlasting.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

It is, when it is proselytizing. As the direct quote from you obviously is. You're not going to stomp your feet and put words in just the right order to slither out of that.

 

[ding]

your first empty attempt of a post was not enough, sorry, you failed the second time around as well -

Hardly. Believing I can do all things through Christ is very real to me. And extremely powerful. It really bothers you that I am a Christian.

no doubt the 1st century and the crucified religious itinerant began the era of personal responsibility over religious dogma for the destiny of their spirits admission into the Everlasting.

You hate Christians. You hate Christianity.

 

[BreezeWood]

A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

It is, when it is proselytizing. As the direct quote from you obviously is. You're not going to stomp your feet and put words in just the right order to slither out of that.

You're not going to stomp your feet and put words in just the right order to slither out of that.

their reference to another thread, their own is interesting and made me recall having indeed to respond to their perilous forgeries - but another poster was the focus of their insults and when they were unable to have their way called on a moderator to shut down their own thread and had it locked ... either they get what they want or turn tail and run away. I was so surprised.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

It is, when it is proselytizing. As the direct quote from you obviously is. You're not going to stomp your feet and put words in just the right order to slither out of that.

You're not going to stomp your feet and put words in just the right order to slither out of that.

their reference to another thread, their own is interesting and made me recall having indeed to respond to their perilous forgeries - but another poster was the focus of their insults and when they were unable to have their way called on a moderator to shut down their own thread and had it locked ... either they get what they want or turn tail and run away. I was so surprised.

Religious belief is often viewed by the believer as a green light to shamelessly lie. You see it here on a daily basis.

 

[Crixus]

''god did it''
''it's in the bible ''

that's all folks--that's all they have...
I constantly ask for details and that's what I get
no theory, nothing

Yet Darwen got it right? What he says makes sense? Was he correct when he said that a woman or a non whit man doesnt possess the ability to reason that a white man has? I guess he gathered allot of insight while he watched chimps get drunk and act hung over?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yet Darwen got it right? What he says makes sense? Was he correct when he said that a woman or a non whit man doesnt possess the ability to reason that a white man has?

Is that part of the theory of evolution? No? Then get that irrelevant nonsense out of here. Clearly we are referring to what Darwin got right about the fact that is evolution.

 

[harmonica]

''god did it''
''it's in the bible ''

that's all folks--that's all they have...
I constantly ask for details and that's what I get
no theory, nothing

Yet Darwen got it right? What he says makes sense? Was he correct when he said that a woman or a non whit man doesnt possess the ability to reason that a white man has? I guess he gathered allot of insight while he watched chimps get drunk and act hung over?

....so, do you believe a fully formed human just ''appeared'' --AND--please give your theory on the creation of man, please

 

[Porter Rockwell]

A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

It is, when it is proselytizing. As the direct quote from you obviously is. You're not going to stomp your feet and put words in just the right order to slither out of that.

You don't understand the meaning of words. If someone comes to me and asks for answers and / or demands something from me, it most assuredly is not proselytizing - sorry, but you're wrong. I won't even bother answering your mental midgetry on this.