College says 9/11 memorial posters offensive to Muslim students

[Tilly]

Who are the haters? Who are they beating up?

What's interesting is that no Muslim students seem to have said a word about this. And as you pointed out, the poster was not removed. So what was the point in the OP, except to generate more derision toward people who don't want to unnecessarily offend others?

I imagine the OP posted the story because tards are again trying to shut people down, as do you, when they don’t like the subject or think someone, somewhere might be offended by something.

We don’t know who brought it to the attention of the thought police, AFAIK.

It might have been a Muslim (s), it might have been SJWs who so enjoy getting offended on behalf of others they are busy being patronisingly paternal over.

Why do you even require the basics of why a thread exists explained to you! Lol.

Because why this thread was started is the same as why the poster was hung.
As Coyote pointed out, the college did not remove the poster. The committee that reviews material for bias commented, AS WAS THEIR RIGHT, that it might be offensive to others. You obviously don't want them their exercising THEIR rights, do you?
Same old, same old arm twisting and bawling that people are disagreeing with you.

I pointed out to you that the poster had not been removed OL, when you were gloating like a 5 year old that you’d ‘won’ - as you thought the poster had been removed. Forgotten that already???

BYW, you mentioned there would be ‘consequences’ for putting up the poster, so I’m still waiting for you to tell me what you’d like those consequences to be.
TIA.

Yes, you did, I should have credited you

Not at all, Coyote, I just thought OL was trying to pull a fast one

 

[Tilly]

Who are the haters? Who are they beating up?

What's interesting is that no Muslim students seem to have said a word about this. And as you pointed out, the poster was not removed. So what was the point in the OP, except to generate more derision toward people who don't want to unnecessarily offend others?

I imagine the OP posted the story because tards are again trying to shut people down, as do you, when they don’t like the subject or think someone, somewhere might be offended by something.

We don’t know who brought it to the attention of the thought police, AFAIK.

It might have been a Muslim (s), it might have been SJWs who so enjoy getting offended on behalf of others they are busy being patronisingly paternal over.

Why do you even require the basics of why a thread exists explained to you! Lol.

Because why this thread was started is the same as why the poster was hung.
As Coyote pointed out, the college did not remove the poster. The committee that reviews material for bias commented, AS WAS THEIR RIGHT, that it might be offensive to others. You obviously don't want them their exercising THEIR rights, do you?
Same old, same old arm twisting and bawling that people are disagreeing with you.

What on earth are you wittering on about? I accept that people have the right to whine about the poster and to draw imaginary conclusions as to the motivation of those who create them, after all, that’s all the Left is good for.

I also reserve my right to say you are wrong, IMO.

It’s actually you who has a problem with people telling you they disagree with your view, and with people telling you your fantasies about why people choose to remember the murdered are just nasty speculation on your part and nothing more, and that you don’t have the right or ability to tell those people what to do.

It’s been you who’s attempting to lay down the law regarding how other people memorialise the victims, and it’s you who took credit like a 5 year old when you thought the poster had been removed.

You need to get a grip, OL, because you really do seem to be very confused on the whole matter.

Now it seems you are objecting that the thread even exists - on the basis of motivations YOU are ascribing to the OP.
Fascism by prognostication, courtesy of OL

Once again, this has become your rant against me personally, Tilly. Every thread winds up the same way. I'm sure it bores everyone else who has something relevant to say as it does me.

If you don’t want things to get personal, stop projecting your failed assumptions thus:

‘You obviously don't want them their exercising THEIR rights, do you?
Same old, same old arm twisting and bawling that people are disagreeing with you.’

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

In what way are they not 9/11 memorials?

I suppose they are...in the same way as...anti-Jewish neo-nazi propeganda is a WW2 memorial.

You said that "in no way" is the poster a 9/11 memorial. So again, how is it not a 9/11 memorial?

Let me ask you: Are you suggesting that, contrary to what the poster advises us to do, we forget these terrorist acts?

Is the poster interested in remembering (memorializing) the attacks or in fueling hatred towards a large group of people who had nothing to do with it?

I choose to believe they are interested in remembering the idealogical hatred behind the attacks and that we must strive to put an end to it. Why do you believe otherwise?

You can choose to believe it. It is your right.

There are times when memorials hide agendas. What is the purpose? To gin up hate against Muslims? Or to to inform the public on Islamic terrorism? Why just Islamic terrorism? I think those are good questions to ask don’t you?

I think a good question to ask is: Are you more upset that these terror attacks killed thousands of innocent people or are you more upset that a conservative group pointed out that most were committed by radical Muslims?

How do posters like that help to put an end to ideological hatred?

How does a poster like the one below put an end to racism by cops?

One could say that this foments bigotry against police officers. You know as well as I do that trust in cops is way down and anger and resentment against law enforcement in general has become toxic due to the all the hateful rhetoric out there, to the point that good cops are being targeted.

The difference is important. One is a memorial. The other is the use of a tragedy to promote an agenda.

What agenda might that be, ending terrorism perhaps?

How would it end terrorism?[/quote]

The poster or the agenda? The poster won't end terrorism but the agenda might. With the help of posters like this to raise awareness.

How does it it address the many complex factors around the world driving terrorism?

How does a poster like the one above address the many complex factors that drive some officers to shoot unarmed blacks?

What solutions does it propose or hint at?

Not forgetting.

Note: I posted a number of posters that clearly did NOT advocate forgetting. Why would you think that I am suggesting we "forget" it?

Because while you have no problem not forgetting, you seem to have a problem with conservatives not forgetting. If you advocate not forgetting, it is a righteous crusade against hate. If a conservative advocates not forgetting, it's Islamaphobia and racism.

What does this have to do with conservatives and liberals?[/quote]

It was a college conservative group that put up the poster. Considering all the demonizing and vilifying of conservatives and Republicans going on right now, I can't help but think that that has a lot to do with all the controversy.

You are essentially stating that a campaign of hate is itself a “righteous” crusade against hate.

Another "Have you stopped beating your wife" approach. This question is based on your premise that it is a campaign of hate and the assumption that I agree that it is. I do not.

Historically, those things usually result in violence against innocent people. Are you ok with that?

Like good cops being murdered? Are you okay with that?

Or are there better ways of sending out a message...one that sends a united message against Terrorism

Are there better ways? Probably. Does that make this way wrong? No.

...or addresses terrorism of all kinds. I remember Oklahoma City. Do you?

Oklahoma City did not stem from any ideology, it was just a guy pissed off at the government. Most of the others were perpetrated by radical Muslims who share a hate-filled ideology.

George Bush was a conservative. He advocated not forgetting. He wasn’t accused of Islamaphobia. Maybe it has more to do with the message than the messenger.

One says "never forget" and the other says "never forget". Yeah, I can see how it might be the message.

In the meantime, rightwing media is in a frenzy of news stories claiming Ripon banned YAF’s posters when in fact, they did not.

Whether they did or not is irrelevant to the fact that they made an issue of it in the first place. They may not have torn it down but they did try to dissuade them from putting it up.

 

[Coyote]

I suppose they are...in the same way as...anti-Jewish neo-nazi propeganda is a WW2 memorial.

You said that "in no way" is the poster a 9/11 memorial. So again, how is it not a 9/11 memorial?

Let me ask you: Are you suggesting that, contrary to what the poster advises us to do, we forget these terrorist acts?

Is the poster interested in remembering (memorializing) the attacks or in fueling hatred towards a large group of people who had nothing to do with it?

I choose to believe they are interested in remembering the idealogical hatred behind the attacks and that we must strive to put an end to it. Why do you believe otherwise?

You can choose to believe it. It is your right.

There are times when memorials hide agendas. What is the purpose? To gin up hate against Muslims? Or to to inform the public on Islamic terrorism? Why just Islamic terrorism? I think those are good questions to ask don’t you?

I think a good question to ask is: Are you more upset that these terror attacks killed thousands of innocent people or are you more upset that a conservative group pointed out that most were committed by radical Muslims?

I think a better question is why are you making this about liberals and conservatives? You are assuming that means something to me. It doesn't. That is twice you have tried to interject it into the conversation.

I am more interested in posters, ideas and actions that lead to solutions. What solutions would this lead to? If it led to increased violence towards people percieved as Muslim...is that acceptable collateral damage in your view?

There are many ways to remember.

The stuff on police shootings and such is really another topic with a different set of underlying issues to it.

 

[flacaltenn]

It identifies the enemy. The same way our military identifies the enemy.
Yes. What purpose does that serve on a college campus, with the admonition, Never Forget? Have we got an active draft? Desperate for recruits? But it is not an Uncle Sam poster, is it?

It's a valid step in MEMORIALIZING --- that for some damn reason, leftists tend to want to leave out. It's a MEANINGFUL RESOLUTION to "never forget". As in bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan which leftists seem to support anyways. At least when THEIR team is in power.

When American journalists or citizens overseas get beheaded by the "JV Team" -- we're SUPPOSED to respond. So you're enlisted in that decision.

I watched my Libertarian candidate get ambushed at 7AM by snarky Morning Joe staff with the question -- "What would YOU do about Aleppo"??? That's a question EVERY American needs to ponder when they acquiesce to using the awesome power of the American military. YOU and I are drafted to weigh in on those kind of decisions.

Now my tribe might not KNOW what to do about "Aleppo" because there is virtually nothing you can do to fix a city reduced to marbles and dust. And my tribe has a 25 yr consistent record of OPPOSING regime changes in the Middle East at the slightest whim. A policy that has LED to creating sucking voids of power PERFECT for breeding Radical Islamist extremists. But the cogent answer would have been to kiss Assad's ass, not get in the way of him restoring order to his country UNLESS he requests it --- and organizing a WORLD plan for creating safe corridors and zones for the refugees TO STAY in the Levant area.

Neither the Dems or Repubs see it that way. That's the discussion that we NEVER HAVE. And it's killing this country.. So I ENCOURAGE "remembering" and having the conversion. Apparently -- you and others of your tribe don't..

 

[flacaltenn]

The Iranian connection is that there are different sect of Islamic Fundies. And the proxies from Hesbolah who are Iranian backed and destroying ENTIRE CITIES in Syria are no different in terms of violence and conquest and terrorism from the Sunni forms of the same disease...

Shame on the US for interfering. We SUCK at Mid-East Foreign Policy. But the rise of the Ayatollahs and their nuclear program and their $Bills in support for proxy wars and proxy terrorism and KILLING OUR TROOPS in Iraq -- is part of the issue.

Take the news from an Arab source.

Iran's 'proxy armies' must stop: US

How does it “clearly” identify “the enemy”? If...by some bizarre turn of events...you woke up from a 50 year coma...and saw it...what would you make of it?

What would college kids make of it? And who would some of them target?

I'm not in a 50 yr coma (just checked) and did not MISS any of those real events -- so I can't answer your question. The events on that poster will be relevant 100 years from now because it's history that for some reason -- you want to bury.

You underestimate College students. As tho none of them have family or friends in the Armed Forces or relatives in foreign posts.

Although some are even FATALLY naive. Did you see the story about SJW couple that went biking thru one of the "stans" and got slaughtered by Islamists? They had written about how it was just a misunderstanding and love and contact would cure all.. I'll link it for you if you haven't. You're not one of those ---- are you? Not to be entirely snarky, but SEEING that poster might have saved their lives by THINKING about how dangerous their "peace mission" would be. Seriously...

You have an irrational fear of acknowledging a conflict. A conflict for which YOUR COUNTRY BOMBS about 3 Arab states or more every year. Why is that? Why can you not ADMIT there is an enemy and a threat and work for HELPING folks realize who it actually is?

This "all-in" protection of ANY "muslim" is what gets your ass kicked repeatedly. All you need to do is to ACKNOWLEDGE that's it's YOU with irrational fear of involving innocent Muslims in America and ADMIT these animals ARE a danger to this country and ESPECIALLY THE MUSLIMS they are killing by the 10s of thousands in their own homelands.

You think you're helping 3 million dead or displaced Syrian muslims by attacking that poster? Wanna see the posters from SYRIA?? Are THEY afraid they or their kids can't figure out who the enemy is?

 

[MaryL]

America is waiting for a message or another, Here it is: "Immigrate legally" Nobody is above the law. Not Mexicans that ignore immigration law, or anyone that that empowers them .Sorry kids, that's that facts. They aren't beautiful victims. Sorry, nothing like that.

 

[BookShaka]

College Says 9/11 Memorial Posters ‘Offensive’ to Muslim Students

A college has ruled that 9/11 memorial posters put up by a conservative group are offensive to Muslim students.
------------------------------------

If you are offended get the fk out, Don't like it don't look at it. You skanks are not going to turn our Country into the shit hold you left or your parents left, you will not make our rights and freedoms come forth GTF.......

They should be offended. I’d be offended too.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

You said that "in no way" is the poster a 9/11 memorial. So again, how is it not a 9/11 memorial?

Let me ask you: Are you suggesting that, contrary to what the poster advises us to do, we forget these terrorist acts?

Is the poster interested in remembering (memorializing) the attacks or in fueling hatred towards a large group of people who had nothing to do with it?

I choose to believe they are interested in remembering the idealogical hatred behind the attacks and that we must strive to put an end to it. Why do you believe otherwise?

You can choose to believe it. It is your right.

There are times when memorials hide agendas. What is the purpose? To gin up hate against Muslims? Or to to inform the public on Islamic terrorism? Why just Islamic terrorism? I think those are good questions to ask don’t you?

I think a good question to ask is: Are you more upset that these terror attacks killed thousands of innocent people or are you more upset that a conservative group pointed out that most were committed by radical Muslims?

I think a better question is why are you making this about liberals and conservatives? You are assuming that means something to me. It doesn't. That is twice you have tried to interject it into the conversation.

I already explained that to you. Asking again will only get you the same explanation. But let me explain again anyway: The poster was put up by a college conservative group and in my opinion, given the current hostile climate against conservatives in this country and the fact that colleges are overwhelmingly liberal, I think that differing political views are what sparked the controversy. Am I wrong? Maybe. But not even you can deny that conservatives these days are being viewed as not much more than Nazis in pickups.

I am more interested in posters, ideas and actions that lead to solutions. What solutions would this lead to? If it led to increased violence towards people percieved as Muslim...is that acceptable collateral damage in your view?

No, it is not. But I don't share your view that it would.

The disconnect here is that you are arguing from the assumption that their motive was racist as if it was fact. Put simply, you don't know this.

There are many ways to remember.

And this is one of them.

This is just another strawman argument based on the false premise that because there are other or better ways, this one is wrong. That's kind of like saying it's wrong to drive a Prius to the Grand Canyon because a BMW is better.

The stuff on police shootings and such is really another topic with a different set of underlying issues to it.

No kidding. The topic is not about radical Muslim terrorism, it's about how to memorialize victims and whether or not this poster had sincere motives behind it and whether or not this type of memorial is helpful in combating hate. The poster I posted is germane to that topic and was used as an example of the same type of poster being used in another cause. If this type of poster is inappropriate in this case then so is the one memorializing black victims of police shootings.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

I'm not sure what happened, I received the e-mail alert that you responded to my post but when I got here it was apparently deleted or something. So I copy and pasted from the e-mail and am responding here.

I already explained that to you. Asking again will only get you the same explanation. But let me explain again anyway: The poster was put up by a college conservative group and in my opinion, given the current hostile climate against conservatives in this country and the fact that colleges are overwhelmingly liberal, I think that differing political views are what sparked the controversy. Am I wrong? Maybe. But not even you can deny that conservatives these days are being viewed as not much more than Nazis in pickups.

We both seem to be arguing from mistaken assumptions here. One is that I care about the political ideology behind the poster. I don’t.

My assumption was not that you cared, my assumption was that you had not considered it. Since you say you don't care, I would say my assumption was correct.

As a point of reference, going back to your earlier post, I would have expressed similarar concerns about the poster of police shooting victims, a poster which leaves out any meaningful context for each of the images and simplifies it to one item, people of color killed by police. Most people don’t think beyond the surface do they? And in anger pick easy targets to scapegoat whether it is an angry nutter targeting police or an angry nutter targeting a Sikh temple.

Maybe you would and maybe you wouldn't have expressed similar concerns. The point is that the same type of poster for a different cause raised zero eyebrows.

Speaking of hostile political climates you seem to ignore the fact that for every Nazi in a pickup truck we have a rampaging rioting Antifa/BLM image being promoted...by the president himself I might add.

I don't know about anything involving Trump and Antifa/BLM images.

The disconnect here is that you are arguing from the assumption that their motive was racist as if it was fact. Put simply, you don't know this.

We have different views. Aren’t you assuming there is no anti Muslim intent behind the poster? A similar disconnect on your part leading to an opposite assumption?

The difference here is that I make no claims about the image and my assumption is based on taking the poster at face value, i.e., a series of terror attacks and the admonition not to forget. At face value, I take this to mean not to forget the terror attacks and the hate behind them.

Those criticizing the poster are the ones who went a step further and inferred Islamaphobia based only on the fact that all the attacks depicted were committed by radical Muslims. Given the fact that so many terror attacks are committed by radical Muslims, I feel it's a silly inference.

Citing bias reports filed during last year’s 9/11: Never Forget Project, administrators at Ripon College in Ripon, Wisconsin, ruled that YAF’s 9/11: Never Forget Project posters are creating an “environment” where “students from a Muslim background would feel singled out and/or harassed.” As a result, Ripon administrators will not allow the Ripon Young Americans for Freedom to hang the flyers as part of their work to remember the victims of September 11 or other victims of radical Islamist terrorism.

But, according to the news Ripon did not ban the posters. What is the truth? If someone outright lies...motives are brought into question. Maybe they are seeking professional victimhood status, a trend previously associated with the left that is gaining traction on the right. Colleges are known for being overly sensitive to student body sensitivities and censored (sometimes wrongfully) free speech.

The person (Spencer Brown) who apparently made the claim that the posters were barred works at the YAF headquarters in Virginia. The school is in Wisconsin and the posters were put up there so I don't know that the school's YAF chapter had anything to do with the false claim.

Having said that, as for questioning motives, my first instinct is to say that Brown jumped the gun out of paranoia stemming from the fact that conservatives these days are being viewed as lower class citizens.

But...the college has some valid points. YAF claims:

Administrators further—and falsely—claim that one of their objections is because radical Islamist terrorism “represents a small percentage of the terrorist attacks that happened to this country, and they don’t represent the full gamut, and they show a very small picture of a specific religion or nationality instead of the larger viewpoint.” From 1992 to 2017, Islamists were responsible for 92% of deaths caused by terrorism in the United States, and are “far and away, the deadliest group of terrorists by ideology.”


The college is correct. YAF is using number of deaths, most of which occurred in 911, a single attack, with the highest number of casualties since OKC.

The school is incorrect when they say "radical Islamist terrorism “represents a small percentage of the terrorist attacks that happened to this country..."

Only three of the twelve terror attacks since 1980 listed here at CNN's website were not committed by Muslim terrorists. In addition, according to this site, the terror attacks listed from 2000 to 2014 are overwhelmingly committed by Muslim terrorists.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not sure what happened, I received the e-mail alert that you responded to my post but when I got here it was apparently deleted or something. So I copy and pasted from the e-mail and am responding here.

I already explained that to you. Asking again will only get you the same explanation. But let me explain again anyway: The poster was put up by a college conservative group and in my opinion, given the current hostile climate against conservatives in this country and the fact that colleges are overwhelmingly liberal, I think that differing political views are what sparked the controversy. Am I wrong? Maybe. But not even you can deny that conservatives these days are being viewed as not much more than Nazis in pickups.

We both seem to be arguing from mistaken assumptions here. One is that I care about the political ideology behind the poster. I don’t.

My assumption was not that you cared, my assumption was that you had not considered it. Since you say you don't care, I would say my assumption was correct.

I would say you are assuming that the fact they are conservative makes a difference in how they are treated based on some sort of percieved victimhood.

As a point of reference, going back to your earlier post, I would have expressed similarar concerns about the poster of police shooting victims, a poster which leaves out any meaningful context for each of the images and simplifies it to one item, people of color killed by police. Most people don’t think beyond the surface do they? And in anger pick easy targets to scapegoat whether it is an angry nutter targeting police or an angry nutter targeting a Sikh temple.

Maybe you would and maybe you wouldn't have expressed similar concerns. The point is that the same type of poster for a different cause raised zero eyebrows.

The poster of of the police killings? Was that posted on a college campus?

Speaking of hostile political climates you seem to ignore the fact that for every Nazi in a pickup truck we have a rampaging rioting Antifa/BLM image being promoted...by the president himself I might add.

I don't know about anything involving Trump and Antifa/BLM images.

I'm not surprised. You seem more sensitized to insults towards conservatives than towards liberals.

The disconnect here is that you are arguing from the assumption that their motive was racist as if it was fact. Put simply, you don't know this.

We have different views. Aren’t you assuming there is no anti Muslim intent behind the poster? A similar disconnect on your part leading to an opposite assumption?

The difference here is that I make no claims about the image and my assumption is based on taking the poster at face value, i.e., a series of terror attacks and the admonition not to forget. At face value, I take this to mean not to forget the terror attacks and the hate behind them.

Those criticizing the poster are the ones who went a step further and inferred Islamaphobia based only on the fact that all the attacks depicted were committed by radical Muslims. Given the fact that so many terror attacks are committed by radical Muslims, I feel it's a silly inference.

We all make assumptions about motives . You say you you take their poster at face value (no questioning of motives) but you don't seem to take the poster of police killings of blacks at face value. Why the discrepency?

You say it's a silly inference. Perhaps you would better understand it if you view as you view it as you would have me view hostile attitudes towards conservatives - that is, view it in the current hostile to Muslims environment which does not make distinctions between terrorists and Muslims.

Citing bias reports filed during last year’s 9/11: Never Forget Project, administrators at Ripon College in Ripon, Wisconsin, ruled that YAF’s 9/11: Never Forget Project posters are creating an “environment” where “students from a Muslim background would feel singled out and/or harassed.” As a result, Ripon administrators will not allow the Ripon Young Americans for Freedom to hang the flyers as part of their work to remember the victims of September 11 or other victims of radical Islamist terrorism.

But, according to the news Ripon did not ban the posters. What is the truth? If someone outright lies...motives are brought into question. Maybe they are seeking professional victimhood status, a trend previously associated with the left that is gaining traction on the right. Colleges are known for being overly sensitive to student body sensitivities and censored (sometimes wrongfully) free speech.

The person (Spencer Brown) who apparently made the claim that the posters were barred works at the YAF headquarters in Virginia. The school is in Wisconsin and the posters were put up there so I don't know that the school's YAF chapter had anything to do with the false claim.

Having said that, as for questioning motives, my first instinct is to say that Brown jumped the gun out of paranoia stemming from the fact that conservatives these days are being viewed as lower class citizens.

If Brown jumped the gun why has there been no retraction, no correction of his claims? It's been some time now...plenty of time to correct the record.

But...the college has some valid points. YAF claims:

Administrators further—and falsely—claim that one of their objections is because radical Islamist terrorism “represents a small percentage of the terrorist attacks that happened to this country, and they don’t represent the full gamut, and they show a very small picture of a specific religion or nationality instead of the larger viewpoint.” From 1992 to 2017, Islamists were responsible for 92% of deaths caused by terrorism in the United States, and are “far and away, the deadliest group of terrorists by ideology.”


The college is correct. YAF is using number of deaths, most of which occurred in 911, a single attack, with the highest number of casualties since OKC.

The school is incorrect when they say "radical Islamist terrorism “represents a small percentage of the terrorist attacks that happened to this country..."

Only three of the twelve terror attacks since 1980 listed here at CNN's website were not committed by Muslim terrorists. In addition, according to this site, the terror attacks listed from 2000 to 2014 are overwhelmingly committed by Muslim terrorists.

Are you being deliberately deceptive? Surely you realize that CNN's site represents only a fraction (as it states "most notable" terror attacks). There have certainly more than 3 in 40 years. Your second link goes back to this thread so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

For example: Which Ideology Has Inspired The Most Murders In Terrorist Attacks On U.S. Soil?

Given that...do you think American Muslims on a campus might be justified to feel concerned about how people might react over such a poster? Perhaps that they might have the same feelings of persecution that the conservative group putting forth the poster would have?

 

[Coyote]

It identifies the enemy. The same way our military identifies the enemy.
Yes. What purpose does that serve on a college campus, with the admonition, Never Forget? Have we got an active draft? Desperate for recruits? But it is not an Uncle Sam poster, is it?

It's a valid step in MEMORIALIZING --- that for some damn reason, leftists tend to want to leave out. It's a MEANINGFUL RESOLUTION to "never forget". As in bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan which leftists seem to support anyways. At least when THEIR team is in power.

When American journalists or citizens overseas get beheaded by the "JV Team" -- we're SUPPOSED to respond. So you're enlisted in that decision.

I watched my Libertarian candidate get ambushed at 7AM by snarky Morning Joe staff with the question -- "What would YOU do about Aleppo"??? That's a question EVERY American needs to ponder when they acquiesce to using the awesome power of the American military. YOU and I are drafted to weigh in on those kind of decisions.

Now my tribe might not KNOW what to do about "Aleppo" because there is virtually nothing you can do to fix a city reduced to marbles and dust. And my tribe has a 25 yr consistent record of OPPOSING regime changes in the Middle East at the slightest whim. A policy that has LED to creating sucking voids of power PERFECT for breeding Radical Islamist extremists. But the cogent answer would have been to kiss Assad's ass, not get in the way of him restoring order to his country UNLESS he requests it --- and organizing a WORLD plan for creating safe corridors and zones for the refugees TO STAY in the Levant area.

Neither the Dems or Repubs see it that way. That's the discussion that we NEVER HAVE. And it's killing this country.. So I ENCOURAGE "remembering" and having the conversion. Apparently -- you and others of your tribe don't..

I have no problem with having a conversation. The poster is not banned - although the YAF has yet to correct it's claims. Part of the conversation is MY view, and my right to express it. You do realize that don't you? I don't know about YOUR tribe - but if it's part of the tribes refusing to admit a reasonable number of refugees wanting to come here, that have beenvery well vetted, or worse - those who have aided us in our misboggoten wars (which I never supported) - and are unable to get the promised visas and protections they were promised...then I'm not too impressed with any tribes.

I'm not the only one that discourages having conversations. Here's some of another tribe's responses to Islamic Extremists...this is THEIR conversation and THEIR way of memorializing 911 I guess.

Assaults against Muslims in U.S. surpass 2001 level

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

I'm not sure what happened, I received the e-mail alert that you responded to my post but when I got here it was apparently deleted or something. So I copy and pasted from the e-mail and am responding here.

I already explained that to you. Asking again will only get you the same explanation. But let me explain again anyway: The poster was put up by a college conservative group and in my opinion, given the current hostile climate against conservatives in this country and the fact that colleges are overwhelmingly liberal, I think that differing political views are what sparked the controversy. Am I wrong? Maybe. But not even you can deny that conservatives these days are being viewed as not much more than Nazis in pickups.

We both seem to be arguing from mistaken assumptions here. One is that I care about the political ideology behind the poster. I don’t.

My assumption was not that you cared, my assumption was that you had not considered it. Since you say you don't care, I would say my assumption was correct.

I would say you are assuming that the fact they are conservative makes a difference in how they are treated based on some sort of percieved victimhood.

It's not "perceived victimhood", it is a fact and is going on now. Conservatives and Republicans are being painted with a broad brush as racists because a few white supremacists support Trump and his immigration policies. I've seen it right here on this forum.

As a point of reference, going back to your earlier post, I would have expressed similarar concerns about the poster of police shooting victims, a poster which leaves out any meaningful context for each of the images and simplifies it to one item, people of color killed by police. Most people don’t think beyond the surface do they? And in anger pick easy targets to scapegoat whether it is an angry nutter targeting police or an angry nutter targeting a Sikh temple.

Maybe you would and maybe you wouldn't have expressed similar concerns. The point is that the same type of poster for a different cause raised zero eyebrows.

The poster of of the police killings? Was that posted on a college campus?

Why does that matter?

Speaking of hostile political climates you seem to ignore the fact that for every Nazi in a pickup truck we have a rampaging rioting Antifa/BLM image being promoted...by the president himself I might add.

I don't know about anything involving Trump and Antifa/BLM images.

I'm not surprised. You seem more sensitized to insults towards conservatives than towards liberals.[/quote]

When I say I don't know anything about it, that means I don't know anything about it. My sensitivities have nothing to do with what I know or don't know.

The disconnect here is that you are arguing from the assumption that their motive was racist as if it was fact. Put simply, you don't know this.

We have different views. Aren’t you assuming there is no anti Muslim intent behind the poster? A similar disconnect on your part leading to an opposite assumption?

The difference here is that I make no claims about the image and my assumption is based on taking the poster at face value, i.e., a series of terror attacks and the admonition not to forget. At face value, I take this to mean not to forget the terror attacks and the hate behind them.

Those criticizing the poster are the ones who went a step further and inferred Islamaphobia based only on the fact that all the attacks depicted were committed by radical Muslims. Given the fact that so many terror attacks are committed by radical Muslims, I feel it's a silly inference.

We all make assumptions about motives . You say you you take their poster at face value (no questioning of motives) but you don't seem to take the poster of police killings of blacks at face value. Why the discrepency?

I never said anything about the artist's motives and I don't know what they were. I merely used it as an example to make a point. All I said was that it could be construed as placing police officers in a bad light.
If we can opine that the college poster could stir up animosity against Muslims because of the premise of only depicting scenes of Muslim terror attacks then we can very well opine that this poster could stir up animosity against police because of the premise of only depicting victims of police shootings and then adding the phrase "Killed by Police".

You say it's a silly inference. Perhaps you would better understand it if you view as you view it as you would have me view hostile attitudes towards conservatives - that is, view it in the current to Muslims environment that does not make distinctions between terrorists and Muslims.

The poster says nothing about Muslims so there's no obligation to make the distinction.

Citing bias reports filed during last year’s 9/11: Never Forget Project, administrators at Ripon College in Ripon, Wisconsin, ruled that YAF’s 9/11: Never Forget Project posters are creating an “environment” where “students from a Muslim background would feel singled out and/or harassed.” As a result, Ripon administrators will not allow the Ripon Young Americans for Freedom to hang the flyers as part of their work to remember the victims of September 11 or other victims of radical Islamist terrorism.

But, according to the news Ripon did not ban the posters. What is the truth? If someone outright lies...motives are brought into question. Maybe they are seeking professional victimhood status, a trend previously associated with the left that is gaining traction on the right. Colleges are known for being overly sensitive to student body sensitivities and censored (sometimes wrongfully) free speech.

The person (Spencer Brown) who apparently made the claim that the posters were barred works at the YAF headquarters in Virginia. The school is in Wisconsin and the posters were put up there so I don't know that the school's YAF chapter had anything to do with the false claim.

Having said that, as for questioning motives, my first instinct is to say that Brown jumped the gun out of paranoia stemming from the fact that conservatives these days are being viewed as lower class citizens.

If Brown jumped the gun why has there been no retraction, no correction of his claims? It's been some time now...plenty of time to correct the record.

I don't know, you'll have to ask him.

But...the college has some valid points. YAF claims:

Administrators further—and falsely—claim that one of their objections is because radical Islamist terrorism “represents a small percentage of the terrorist attacks that happened to this country, and they don’t represent the full gamut, and they show a very small picture of a specific religion or nationality instead of the larger viewpoint.” From 1992 to 2017, Islamists were responsible for 92% of deaths caused by terrorism in the United States, and are “far and away, the deadliest group of terrorists by ideology.”


The college is correct. YAF is using number of deaths, most of which occurred in 911, a single attack, with the highest number of casualties since OKC.

The school is incorrect when they say "radical Islamist terrorism “represents a small percentage of the terrorist attacks that happened to this country..."

Only three of the twelve terror attacks since 1980 listed here at CNN's website were not committed by Muslim terrorists. In addition, according to this site, the terror attacks listed from 2000 to 2014 are overwhelmingly committed by Muslim terrorists.

Are you being deliberately deceptive? Surely you realize that CNN's site represents only a fraction of attacks - the "most notable" as it states.

Certainly there have been many more than 3 in 40 years.

For example: Which Ideology Has Inspired The Most Murders In Terrorist Attacks On U.S. Soil?

From the article:

"Terrorists murdered 3,342 people on U.S. soil from 1992 through August 12, 2017. Islamist terrorists are responsible for 92% of all those murders."

"Islamist terrorists are the deadliest in U.S. history—and certainly since 1992."

"Islamists have killed about 14 times as many people as Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists who, in turn, have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists."

 

[flacaltenn]

The poster is not banned - although the YAF has yet to correct it's claims.

It's a matter of separating "the Bias Review Board" from the Adminstration decisions. Certainly there WAS a threat to ban the poster as result of the Bias Review Board findings. The YAF piece was written prior to a decision by the University to support free speech. Which IS the correct decision. But in their statement, the College hierarchy themselves made several false and uninformed assertions. Such as -- ISIS has nothing to do with 9-11, which is historically and patently false.

What's STILL missing -- is whether the posters WERE ALLOWED to go up. I could not find a single statement to that effect.

So Alex Jones and social media blew this WAAAY out of proportion. Normal for most everything nowadays.

I don't know about YOUR tribe - but if it's part of the tribes refusing to admit a reasonable number of refugees wanting to come here, that have beenvery well vetted, or worse - those who have aided us in our misboggoten wars (which I never supported) - and are unable to get the promised visas and protections they were promised...then I'm not too impressed with any tribes.

You're conflating a social media flare-up with the general sucky nature of US immigration policy. My tribe's position is that we could ALL BE more liberal on immigration if our govt actually functioned with any resemblence to competence and accountability. But it does not.

It's possible to vet those that HELPED us in Iraq and Afghanistan if the govt was reliable in it's process. But you're talking about a government that renewed Mohammed Attah's VISA just prior to 9-11 and then ISSUED IT post mortum. But it's NOT possible to thoroughly vet REFUGEES from conflict areas. Because the LAW considers them REFUGEES and not IMMIGRANTS. They are not making the decision to become Americans. They are making a move to stay alive. And with no reliable functioning government or diplomacy in their host countries, no amount of "assurance" about vetting can be trusted.

The fix is to treat refugees as refugees. Different from claims of political asylum or requests for legal immigration. And shelter them until the time that the conflict is resolved. Most have no PREFERENCE to be British or Greek or American. They just want to survive.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It identifies the enemy. The same way our military identifies the enemy.
Yes. What purpose does that serve on a college campus, with the admonition, Never Forget? Have we got an active draft? Desperate for recruits? But it is not an Uncle Sam poster, is it?

It's a valid step in MEMORIALIZING --- that for some damn reason, leftists tend to want to leave out. It's a MEANINGFUL RESOLUTION to "never forget". As in bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan which leftists seem to support anyways. At least when THEIR team is in power.

When American journalists or citizens overseas get beheaded by the "JV Team" -- we're SUPPOSED to respond. So you're enlisted in that decision.

I watched my Libertarian candidate get ambushed at 7AM by snarky Morning Joe staff with the question -- "What would YOU do about Aleppo"??? That's a question EVERY American needs to ponder when they acquiesce to using the awesome power of the American military. YOU and I are drafted to weigh in on those kind of decisions.

Now my tribe might not KNOW what to do about "Aleppo" because there is virtually nothing you can do to fix a city reduced to marbles and dust. And my tribe has a 25 yr consistent record of OPPOSING regime changes in the Middle East at the slightest whim. A policy that has LED to creating sucking voids of power PERFECT for breeding Radical Islamist extremists. But the cogent answer would have been to kiss Assad's ass, not get in the way of him restoring order to his country UNLESS he requests it --- and organizing a WORLD plan for creating safe corridors and zones for the refugees TO STAY in the Levant area.

Neither the Dems or Repubs see it that way. That's the discussion that we NEVER HAVE. And it's killing this country.. So I ENCOURAGE "remembering" and having the conversion. Apparently -- you and others of your tribe don't..

Your tribe?

Have you ever considered putting any of the principles of your tribe into place, here?

It would be a refreshing, albeit radical change from current status quo. .

 

[Nia88]

That's not a 9/11 poster. That's a anti-muslim poster. All the pictures in the poster are from events which were committed by Islamic terrorist. It's trying to paint a picture that all Muslims are terrorist. You conservatives think your slick with your propaganda. Lol

Why don't they make a poster from events where white terrorist attacked?

 

[Dale Smith]

That's not a 9/11 poster. That's a anti-muslim poster. All the pictures in the poster are from events which were committed by Islamic terrorist. It's trying to paint a picture that all Muslims are terrorist. You conservatives think your slick with your propaganda. Lol

Why don't they make a poster from events where white terrorist attacked?

Have you an example of that???

 

[flacaltenn]

It identifies the enemy. The same way our military identifies the enemy.
Yes. What purpose does that serve on a college campus, with the admonition, Never Forget? Have we got an active draft? Desperate for recruits? But it is not an Uncle Sam poster, is it?

It's a valid step in MEMORIALIZING --- that for some damn reason, leftists tend to want to leave out. It's a MEANINGFUL RESOLUTION to "never forget". As in bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan which leftists seem to support anyways. At least when THEIR team is in power.

When American journalists or citizens overseas get beheaded by the "JV Team" -- we're SUPPOSED to respond. So you're enlisted in that decision.

I watched my Libertarian candidate get ambushed at 7AM by snarky Morning Joe staff with the question -- "What would YOU do about Aleppo"??? That's a question EVERY American needs to ponder when they acquiesce to using the awesome power of the American military. YOU and I are drafted to weigh in on those kind of decisions.

Now my tribe might not KNOW what to do about "Aleppo" because there is virtually nothing you can do to fix a city reduced to marbles and dust. And my tribe has a 25 yr consistent record of OPPOSING regime changes in the Middle East at the slightest whim. A policy that has LED to creating sucking voids of power PERFECT for breeding Radical Islamist extremists. But the cogent answer would have been to kiss Assad's ass, not get in the way of him restoring order to his country UNLESS he requests it --- and organizing a WORLD plan for creating safe corridors and zones for the refugees TO STAY in the Levant area.

Neither the Dems or Repubs see it that way. That's the discussion that we NEVER HAVE. And it's killing this country.. So I ENCOURAGE "remembering" and having the conversion. Apparently -- you and others of your tribe don't..

Your tribe?

Have you ever considered putting any of the principles of your tribe into place, here?

It would be a refreshing, albeit radical change from current status quo. .

I'm doing that. I'm writing articles for submission, helping the Libertarians, solving the world problems one paragraph right after the other. Could do an article about the insanity of repeating the same mistakes in Middle East over and over and over again while "my tribe" got the message about trying to "fix" Middle East right about 25 years ago..

On USMB -- my stuff would get just a lot of tl:dr ratings from the regulars.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It identifies the enemy. The same way our military identifies the enemy.
Yes. What purpose does that serve on a college campus, with the admonition, Never Forget? Have we got an active draft? Desperate for recruits? But it is not an Uncle Sam poster, is it?

It's a valid step in MEMORIALIZING --- that for some damn reason, leftists tend to want to leave out. It's a MEANINGFUL RESOLUTION to "never forget". As in bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan which leftists seem to support anyways. At least when THEIR team is in power.

When American journalists or citizens overseas get beheaded by the "JV Team" -- we're SUPPOSED to respond. So you're enlisted in that decision.

I watched my Libertarian candidate get ambushed at 7AM by snarky Morning Joe staff with the question -- "What would YOU do about Aleppo"??? That's a question EVERY American needs to ponder when they acquiesce to using the awesome power of the American military. YOU and I are drafted to weigh in on those kind of decisions.

Now my tribe might not KNOW what to do about "Aleppo" because there is virtually nothing you can do to fix a city reduced to marbles and dust. And my tribe has a 25 yr consistent record of OPPOSING regime changes in the Middle East at the slightest whim. A policy that has LED to creating sucking voids of power PERFECT for breeding Radical Islamist extremists. But the cogent answer would have been to kiss Assad's ass, not get in the way of him restoring order to his country UNLESS he requests it --- and organizing a WORLD plan for creating safe corridors and zones for the refugees TO STAY in the Levant area.

Neither the Dems or Repubs see it that way. That's the discussion that we NEVER HAVE. And it's killing this country.. So I ENCOURAGE "remembering" and having the conversion. Apparently -- you and others of your tribe don't..

Your tribe?

Have you ever considered putting any of the principles of your tribe into place, here?

It would be a refreshing, albeit radical change from current status quo. .

I'm doing that. I'm writing articles for submission, helping the Libertarians, solving the world problems one paragraph right after the other. Could do an article about the insanity of repeating the same mistakes in Middle East over and over and over again while "my tribe" got the message about trying to "fix" Middle East right about 25 years ago..

On USMB -- my stuff would get just a lot of tl:dr ratings from the regulars.

No. I was talking about putting libertarian principles into play in the way you operate this website.

Instead of a system where complete authority is invested in unelected oligarchs who bear absolutely no responsibility for the way they wield their power and are free to use it to punish those they do not like, a more libertarian approach would limit the excesses of governance, allow for more input from the community and help create a structure based upon rule of law rather than rule of whim.

 

[MindWars]

We'll see how hte lunatic left hndles another inside job terror attack the stupid fkrs won't know what hit them. We all know how crazy the lefti is they won't stop at anything to get rid of Trump , bring down the Country and they have no bones about it because none of them give a dam about any one of you losers . They meaning the Globalist..................

Maybe Q anon can give a sure fire anser to this lmfao Qanon bahahaaah they were once for the Country now they have their pathetic sheep following them as their little soldiers LMMFAO sounds kinda liek ANTIFA doesn't it. After all they refer to themselves as Qanon soldiers omfgg the irony of stupidy.