CDZ Christian Hate Groups

[midcan5]

"'The United States also has a very high rate of violent crime, and particularly high rates of lethal violence - compared to other similarly situated nations....'This is not a coincidence...this belief system, and the culture it inspires, lends itself to many types of criminal activity including the promotion of violent crimes against a variety of victims, terrorism against those of different faiths, and even crimes against the environment'.

Read more: Christianity is making American criminal by teaching violence - book

This is interesting, from 2007 yet. Religious Right Claims Hate-Crimes Law an Attack on Christianity
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/religious-right-claims-hate-crimes-law-attack-christianity

Why Violent Right-wing Extremism Doesn’t Scare Americans

'10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men'
'Most of the terrorist activity in the U.S. in recent years has come not from Muslims, but from radical Christianists, white supremacists and far-right militia groups.' 10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men

'The Top Five Attacks On America Committed By Christian Terrorists, Not Muslims'

The Top Five Attacks On America Committed By Christian Terrorists, Not Muslims

 

[FA_Q2]

If Fox media and presidential candidate Donald Trump among others insist we add to an act of terrorism and hate, a religious qualifier, then is it not fair that we call out Christian hate organizations. There are many of them and just like any other religion they claim to be the followers of God here on earth. It's unclear whether God hates the same people as no clear hate list has arrived from the heavens recently?

Consider for instance 'American Family Association' who are boycotting Target because Target has expressed a well founded American principle of tolerance for diversity. Our preamble has no place in religious hate groups. Hate is an exception in so many areas of society. It's often unclear who to hate at any given time or historic epoch. Hate also varies in intensity and location.

So in fairness to hatred of all sorts, let's all make sure we tag people properly. Your thoughts?

"There are 939 hate groups currently operating in the United States, many of which are religiously driven. Some of these groups are led by people like James Wickstrom, a Christian minister and radio talk show host who often calls for the extermination of Jews in his sermons. Wickstrom has an extensive criminal history and has been preaching his hatred since the 1970s. Thomas Robb is another hate group ringleader. A Christian-Identity Church pastor and longtime leader of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Robb preaches the preservation and grand authority of the white race over all others. Both leaders are, unsurprisingly, anti-LGBTQ as well."

5 Dangerous “Christian Hate” Groups - TheHumanist.com

PS Is this true for Love too? That would require another investigation.

"The fact is, the most painful and tragic lesson of the 20th century was that regimes based on racial superiority and religious hatred can't be trusted to keep their word to the international community." Michael Bloomberg

Additional Item Of Interest

"state regulation of daycare facilities. Or rather, the lack thereof, if you happen to have a…think hard now…religious exemption."

"In 1997, while George W. Bush was governor, the Texas legislature exempted religious daycares from standard licensing rules. After a few years, one study found that “the rate of confirmed abuse and neglect at alternatively-accredited facilities was 25 times higher than that of state-licensed facilities.” That was enough to persuade even Gov. Rick Perry, hardly a secular champion, to back repeal of the exemption.

Still, there remain those sixteen states that haven’t gotten the message yet, and continue to provide full or partial exemptions for religious day care operators. After all, the losers are just kids—not important people, like God experts." Rules Are for Schmucks: The Littlest Victims of Religious Privilege - TheHumanist.com


"It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love; it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be directly attributed to religion—to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions and religious diversions of scarce resources—is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity." Sam Harris

Conservatives can’t have it both ways.

If a Muslim who commits an act of terror means ‘all Muslims’ are ‘terrorists,’ and Islam a ‘terrorist religion,’ then when a Christian commits an act of terror it likewise means ‘all Christians’ are ‘terrorists,’ and Christianity a ‘terrorist religion.’

Of course both perceptions are equally wrong and ridiculous.

Individuals commit acts of terror, not religions.

The act of one is not ‘representative’ of an entire class of persons, to argue otherwise fails as a hasty generalization fallacy.

And we are not ‘at war’ with Islam, the notion is bigoted idiocy.

This fails as a straw man fallacy.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

But, but but but everybody KNOWS that Christians boycotting a store is exactly like Muslims engaging in Mass murder!!!

The manual "operating guidelines for today's modern leftist" says so!!

 

[Coyote]

Folks, this is the CDZ. A whole lot of posts that are clearly not CDZ compliant have been removed.

Discuss the topic.

From the opening of CDZ:
We'd like to welcome everyone to the Clean Debate Zone! Use this section to have debates with fellow members that will be free of name calling Posters or putting Them down, attacks, flaming and all other types of fighting.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Folks, this is the CDZ. A whole lot of posts that are clearly not CDZ compliant have been removed.

Discuss the topic.

From the opening of CDZ:
We'd like to welcome everyone to the Clean Debate Zone! Use this section to have debates with fellow members that will be free of name calling Posters or putting Them down, attacks, flaming and all other types of fighting.

And you don't see the irony of a total flame OP in the CDZ?

 

[Coyote]

Folks, this is the CDZ. A whole lot of posts that are clearly not CDZ compliant have been removed.

Discuss the topic.

From the opening of CDZ:
We'd like to welcome everyone to the Clean Debate Zone! Use this section to have debates with fellow members that will be free of name calling Posters or putting Them down, attacks, flaming and all other types of fighting.

And you don't see the irony of a total flame OP in the CDZ?

I'm going to answer this once, then anything else needs to be discussed off the boards. What works in CDZ often depends on how it's framed. Some topics don't work. Others, though controversial, can work if they're framed in such a way as to promote civil discussion.

For example, let's say you wanted to discuss something like the issue of the Catholic Church's protection of pedophilic priests. Pretty hot button and potentially inflammatory.

You could title it:

Christians promote pedos by protecting priests.

In the body you could go on about how Christians are pedo supporters etc. in a blatently broad brushing way.

OR

You could title it: Does the Catholic Church bear some responsibility for the actions of it's priests convicted of pedophilia.

In the body you could go on about specific actions the church has done to protect it's priests from secular law and how damaging it's been for the victims.

Those are two ways a similar discussion can be framed and one could work in CDZ, the other would not.



Another example would be the topic here: CDZ - Blinded by "not all Muslims are terrorists"? also hot button, potentially inflammatory but well framed. AND it's attracting civil discussion.

 

[guno]

not a good history

Anti-Semitism: 2000 Years of Christian Love

Nearly every culture that came into contact with Western Christianity tolerated and accepted Jews until Christianity spread its violent anti-Jewish message across the West. Only with Christian principles was anti-semitism made possible, culminating in the atrocities of the Nazis during World War 2. No other religion has hated the Jews as much as Christian communities.

Anti-Semitism: 2000 Years of Christian Love

 

[CrusaderFrank]

first ever unwatched thread...adios

 

[2aguy]

If Fox media and presidential candidate Donald Trump among others insist we add to an act of terrorism and hate, a religious qualifier, then is it not fair that we call out Christian hate organizations. There are many of them and just like any other religion they claim to be the followers of God here on earth. It's unclear whether God hates the same people as no clear hate list has arrived from the heavens recently?

Consider for instance 'American Family Association' who are boycotting Target because Target has expressed a well founded American principle of tolerance for diversity. Our preamble has no place in religious hate groups. Hate is an exception in so many areas of society. It's often unclear who to hate at any given time or historic epoch. Hate also varies in intensity and location.

So in fairness to hatred of all sorts, let's all make sure we tag people properly. Your thoughts?

"There are 939 hate groups currently operating in the United States, many of which are religiously driven. Some of these groups are led by people like James Wickstrom, a Christian minister and radio talk show host who often calls for the extermination of Jews in his sermons. Wickstrom has an extensive criminal history and has been preaching his hatred since the 1970s. Thomas Robb is another hate group ringleader. A Christian-Identity Church pastor and longtime leader of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Robb preaches the preservation and grand authority of the white race over all others. Both leaders are, unsurprisingly, anti-LGBTQ as well."

5 Dangerous “Christian Hate” Groups - TheHumanist.com

PS Is this true for Love too? That would require another investigation.

"The fact is, the most painful and tragic lesson of the 20th century was that regimes based on racial superiority and religious hatred can't be trusted to keep their word to the international community." Michael Bloomberg

Additional Item Of Interest

"state regulation of daycare facilities. Or rather, the lack thereof, if you happen to have a…think hard now…religious exemption."

"In 1997, while George W. Bush was governor, the Texas legislature exempted religious daycares from standard licensing rules. After a few years, one study found that “the rate of confirmed abuse and neglect at alternatively-accredited facilities was 25 times higher than that of state-licensed facilities.” That was enough to persuade even Gov. Rick Perry, hardly a secular champion, to back repeal of the exemption.

Still, there remain those sixteen states that haven’t gotten the message yet, and continue to provide full or partial exemptions for religious day care operators. After all, the losers are just kids—not important people, like God experts." Rules Are for Schmucks: The Littlest Victims of Religious Privilege - TheHumanist.com


"It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love; it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be directly attributed to religion—to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions and religious diversions of scarce resources—is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity." Sam Harris

So...to you....not wanting grown men going to the bathroom next to young girls qualifies a group as a hate group......

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[2aguy]

not a good history

Anti-Semitism: 2000 Years of Christian Love

Nearly every culture that came into contact with Western Christianity tolerated and accepted Jews until Christianity spread its violent anti-Jewish message across the West. Only with Christian principles was anti-semitism made possible, culminating in the atrocities of the Nazis during World War 2. No other religion has hated the Jews as much as Christian communities.

Anti-Semitism: 2000 Years of Christian Love

No....the muslims persecuted Jews from day one..

 

[RandallFlagg]

"'The United States also has a very high rate of violent crime, and particularly high rates of lethal violence - compared to other similarly situated nations....'This is not a coincidence...this belief system, and the culture it inspires, lends itself to many types of criminal activity including the promotion of violent crimes against a variety of victims, terrorism against those of different faiths, and even crimes against the environment'.

Read more: Christianity is making American criminal by teaching violence - book

This is interesting, from 2007 yet. Religious Right Claims Hate-Crimes Law an Attack on Christianity
Religious Right Claims Hate-Crimes Law an Attack on Christianity

Why Violent Right-wing Extremism Doesn’t Scare Americans

'10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men'
'Most of the terrorist activity in the U.S. in recent years has come not from Muslims, but from radical Christianists, white supremacists and far-right militia groups.' 10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men

'The Top Five Attacks On America Committed By Christian Terrorists, Not Muslims'

The Top Five Attacks On America Committed By Christian Terrorists, Not Muslims

The "Southern Poverty Law Center" - hate group

The Humanist - a secular atheist magazine


Your assertions are nothing more than opinion.

 

[Coyote]

What makes the SPLC a hate group?

 

[Kristian]

Whenever you bring up the hatred many Christians have for people who are different, no one ever addresses the words they (religious) use and the actions they take. Boycotting Target because they are empathetic citizens is one example. Americans cannot be free to be themselves, they must adhere to the Christian's worldview. The point here is religions, all religions, often create an environment of hate that spills out into society.

Opponents of an open, free society often think criticizing the messenger or the source is all that is required, they engage in same labeling as if this labeling alone meant something. (See above replies) The story of the SPLC is a fascinating one, the founder a hard core segregationist eventually saw the light. Check it out sometime.

I was watching 'Mississippi Burning' recently and it captures well the racial hatred and the actions that kept it in place for so long. I think in a way it is the reason the South is still a rather backward place, but that said, slowly racism changed, in many ways it only hide under the covers, but lynching and burning Churches stopped. The LGBT community will have this same hatred aimed at it from religion. So when you label whole people, lets try to be consistent.

"Evangelical hate speech is really a perversion of empathy. I was guilty of doing it for twenty-five years. I’m ashamed and sorry that I did and regret that my parents and other church leaders taught and instructed me to speak that way. I wish I could go back and apologize to all the people to whom I directed hate speech." See more at: Evangelical Hate Speech: in the Name of Love

"The first hate emails I received were horrible. They did not just attack what I wrote — which was usually about spirituality more than religion — but were also vicious ad hominem attacks. I can’t tell you how many people wrote in to say that I was a whore and a slut and so much worse that I can’t even write it here. And these all came from Christians. I was going to hell. I had made a pact with the devil. Jesus and God hated me. One man wrote that he hoped I would get in a car accident, that the gas tank would explode and I would be burned alive. He was a God-fearing Christian, and he ascertained that I obviously was not one."

When it Comes to Hateful Internet Speech, Christians Are the Worst - OnFaith

Hm..let's think of the "Open/free" societies that vilified Christians....

Afghanistan
China
Russia
Nazi Germany.

Yes, let's emulate them. Obviously they were/are forward thinkers! Quite civilized!

I like China of that country watch!!!

 

[RandallFlagg]

What makes the SPLC a hate group?

Let me answer your question with a question, ok? When was the last time the SPLC went after ANYONE that WASN'T a Christian?

 

[Coyote]

What makes the SPLC a hate group?

Let me answer your question with a question, ok? When was the last time the SPLC went after ANYONE that WASN'T a Christian?

Here's their list of hate groups:

List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the definition (taken from Wiki) of hate groups:
A hate group is an organized group or movement that advocates and practices hatred, hostility, or violence towards members of a race, ethnicity, nation, religion, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation or any other designated sector of society.

I don't see SPLC going after Christianity in general, and their lists include a lot of non-Christians (or non-religiously identifited groups).

 

[jasonnfree]

Guys got me scared now since I live near a Christian church. That guy that shot up the night club in Orlando was probably a closet Christian, but you know how the media protects and keeps secret all this Christian violence.

 

[jasonnfree]

Whenever you bring up the hatred many Christians have for people who are different, no one ever addresses the words they (religious) use and the actions they take. Boycotting Target because they are empathetic citizens is one example. Americans cannot be free to be themselves, they must adhere to the Christian's worldview. The point here is religions, all religions, often create an environment of hate that spills out into society.

Opponents of an open, free society often think criticizing the messenger or the source is all that is required, they engage in same labeling as if this labeling alone meant something. (See above replies) The story of the SPLC is a fascinating one, the founder a hard core segregationist eventually saw the light. Check it out sometime.

I was watching 'Mississippi Burning' recently and it captures well the racial hatred and the actions that kept it in place for so long. I think in a way it is the reason the South is still a rather backward place, but that said, slowly racism changed, in many ways it only hide under the covers, but lynching and burning Churches stopped. The LGBT community will have this same hatred aimed at it from religion. So when you label whole people, lets try to be consistent.

"Evangelical hate speech is really a perversion of empathy. I was guilty of doing it for twenty-five years. I’m ashamed and sorry that I did and regret that my parents and other church leaders taught and instructed me to speak that way. I wish I could go back and apologize to all the people to whom I directed hate speech." See more at: Evangelical Hate Speech: in the Name of Love

"The first hate emails I received were horrible. They did not just attack what I wrote — which was usually about spirituality more than religion — but were also vicious ad hominem attacks. I can’t tell you how many people wrote in to say that I was a whore and a slut and so much worse that I can’t even write it here. And these all came from Christians. I was going to hell. I had made a pact with the devil. Jesus and God hated me. One man wrote that he hoped I would get in a car accident, that the gas tank would explode and I would be burned alive. He was a God-fearing Christian, and he ascertained that I obviously was not one."

When it Comes to Hateful Internet Speech, Christians Are the Worst - OnFaith

Mississippi Burning. You do know that the movie was about the early 1960's right? Over half century ago. Maybe you're watching too many movies, and Hollywood does lean waaaay left, and does ignore little items like Black on White violence. Still, I'll be careful of those Christians from now on, probably got the center of their bibles hollowed out to hide their guns.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not much worried about Christian terrorist violence. I'm also not much worried about Islamic violence. Both are exceedingly rare events in this country overall in the scheme of things and rational people would recognize that. But they don't. However, if I was LGBT...I would be worried. Becaues violence against that community is still far from rare.

What's more worrisome is when irrational actions are then directed against innocent people because of their beliefs or race or ethnicity - because of some misguided idea of "revenge".

Dylan Roof was a devout Christian. He still considered himself a devout Christian when he opened fire on a a black church. Racism was his primary motivation but white supremicist movements (like black supremecist movments such as the Nation of Islam) - are closely tied to religious identity or religious extremism. Roof claimed he had no choice (in his rambling semi-coherent "manifesto") but to take action after finding "pages upon pages of these brutal black on white murders" on the Council of Conservative Citizens' website. Complex motives.

Omar Mateen, who opened fire on a gay night club fits a similar profile in that religion plays a role, in forming his beliefs regarding homosexuals, but is not necessarily a direct motive for his actions.

According to the FBI:

As investigators probe the background of Omar Mateen, whose attack on Pulse nightclub in Orlando left 49 people dead, they say he bore few warning signs of radicalization.

Mateen had allegedly pledged allegiance to ISIS in a 911 call during the attack, as The Two-Way has reported. But as further details emerge about the shooter, investigators say Mateen's profile is more like that of a "typical mass shooter" than an individual radicalized by ISIS, as NPR's Dina Temple-Raston reports.

In fact, intelligence officials and investigators say they're "becoming increasingly convinced that the motive for this attack had very little — or maybe nothing — to do with ISIS."​

Investigators have also been struck by "how closely Mateen's biography adheres to profiles that they associate with typical mass shooters," Dina adds:

"He was bullied as a kid in school. He had well-documented behavioral problems. He was aggressive toward other kids. As he got older, things didn't get much better. He took steroids, he jumped from job to job, he had a history of domestic violence. And all these things together fit into a mass shooter's profile."​

We have two mass shooters who committed horrible crimes, with complex motivations and while religion may certainly have played a role in forming their attitudes, it's not the motive. Motives are often not so simple as "religion" .

These events are very very very rare, but they receive so much media attention (for good reason) that they are brought into our living rooms up close and personal. That gives them an outsized sense of risk and danger that ignores the risk realities.

Most attacks involving hate groups are "small" eruptions of murder, violence or bullying and they receive far less media attention, such as this recent event. The Orlando attack spotlighted what is in reality a long history of violence against the LGBT community and while the perpetrators views may have been formed by his religion - religion isn't usually the main motive.

Are there Christian Hate Groups? Sure. And they exist now and are committing crimes now, not 50 years ago. Why do people deny this? Christians are just as motivated to attack LGBT people as Muslims, and they do.

5 Dangerous “Christian Hate” Groups - TheHumanist.com

 

[Coyote]

Whenever you bring up the hatred many Christians have for people who are different, no one ever addresses the words they (religious) use and the actions they take. Boycotting Target because they are empathetic citizens is one example. Americans cannot be free to be themselves, they must adhere to the Christian's worldview. The point here is religions, all religions, often create an environment of hate that spills out into society.

Opponents of an open, free society often think criticizing the messenger or the source is all that is required, they engage in same labeling as if this labeling alone meant something. (See above replies) The story of the SPLC is a fascinating one, the founder a hard core segregationist eventually saw the light. Check it out sometime.

I was watching 'Mississippi Burning' recently and it captures well the racial hatred and the actions that kept it in place for so long. I think in a way it is the reason the South is still a rather backward place, but that said, slowly racism changed, in many ways it only hide under the covers, but lynching and burning Churches stopped. The LGBT community will have this same hatred aimed at it from religion. So when you label whole people, lets try to be consistent.

"Evangelical hate speech is really a perversion of empathy. I was guilty of doing it for twenty-five years. I’m ashamed and sorry that I did and regret that my parents and other church leaders taught and instructed me to speak that way. I wish I could go back and apologize to all the people to whom I directed hate speech." See more at: Evangelical Hate Speech: in the Name of Love

"The first hate emails I received were horrible. They did not just attack what I wrote — which was usually about spirituality more than religion — but were also vicious ad hominem attacks. I can’t tell you how many people wrote in to say that I was a whore and a slut and so much worse that I can’t even write it here. And these all came from Christians. I was going to hell. I had made a pact with the devil. Jesus and God hated me. One man wrote that he hoped I would get in a car accident, that the gas tank would explode and I would be burned alive. He was a God-fearing Christian, and he ascertained that I obviously was not one."

When it Comes to Hateful Internet Speech, Christians Are the Worst - OnFaith

Mississippi Burning. You do know that the movie was about the early 1960's right? Over half century ago. Maybe you're watching too many movies, and Hollywood does lean waaaay left, and does ignore little items like Black on White violence. Still, I'll be careful of those Christians from now on, probably got the center of their bibles hollowed out to hide their guns.

Black on white violence is over-rated and in most cases, is an attempt to claim reverse racism. The demographics of this country. Blacks are only 13% of the population, other non-whites make up 17%. Chances are most crime is going to be on whites due to simple demographics.

 

[FA_Q2]

Whenever you bring up the hatred many Christians have for people who are different, no one ever addresses the words they (religious) use and the actions they take. Boycotting Target because they are empathetic citizens is one example. Americans cannot be free to be themselves, they must adhere to the Christian's worldview. The point here is religions, all religions, often create an environment of hate that spills out into society.

Opponents of an open, free society often think criticizing the messenger or the source is all that is required, they engage in same labeling as if this labeling alone meant something. (See above replies) The story of the SPLC is a fascinating one, the founder a hard core segregationist eventually saw the light. Check it out sometime.

I was watching 'Mississippi Burning' recently and it captures well the racial hatred and the actions that kept it in place for so long. I think in a way it is the reason the South is still a rather backward place, but that said, slowly racism changed, in many ways it only hide under the covers, but lynching and burning Churches stopped. The LGBT community will have this same hatred aimed at it from religion. So when you label whole people, lets try to be consistent.

"Evangelical hate speech is really a perversion of empathy. I was guilty of doing it for twenty-five years. I’m ashamed and sorry that I did and regret that my parents and other church leaders taught and instructed me to speak that way. I wish I could go back and apologize to all the people to whom I directed hate speech." See more at: Evangelical Hate Speech: in the Name of Love

"The first hate emails I received were horrible. They did not just attack what I wrote — which was usually about spirituality more than religion — but were also vicious ad hominem attacks. I can’t tell you how many people wrote in to say that I was a whore and a slut and so much worse that I can’t even write it here. And these all came from Christians. I was going to hell. I had made a pact with the devil. Jesus and God hated me. One man wrote that he hoped I would get in a car accident, that the gas tank would explode and I would be burned alive. He was a God-fearing Christian, and he ascertained that I obviously was not one."

When it Comes to Hateful Internet Speech, Christians Are the Worst - OnFaith

Mississippi Burning. You do know that the movie was about the early 1960's right? Over half century ago. Maybe you're watching too many movies, and Hollywood does lean waaaay left, and does ignore little items like Black on White violence. Still, I'll be careful of those Christians from now on, probably got the center of their bibles hollowed out to hide their guns.

Black on white violence is over-rated and in most cases, is an attempt to claim reverse racism. The demographics of this country. Blacks are only 13% of the population, other non-whites make up 17%. Chances are most crime is going to be on whites due to simple demographics.

The reality of crime statistics is that most serious crimes are committed on those that are the same race as the perpetrator. That has some interesting implications for race in general but it also destroys the claims one one race's impact on another through crime as you pointed out.