CDZ Blinded by "not all Muslims are terrorists"?

[the207life]

A gender gap study by the World Economic Forum states that 17 out of the 18 worst performing nations in relation to woman’s rights are members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation.

• Algeria
• Jordan
• Lebanon
• Nepal
• Turkey
• Oman
• Egypt
• Mali
• Morocco
• Ivory Coast
• Saudi Arabia
• Syria
• Chad
• Pakistan
• Yemen

The Population Reference Bureau stated in Women of Our World that 16% of Pakistani women are either employed or available to furnish labor. This statistic parallels the fact that Middle Eastern countries in addition to North Africa rank the lowest in terms of economic participation, employment opportunity and the the humanitarian rights and empowerment of women.

The ten countries with the lowest participation in the workforce by women are:

• Jordan
• Oman
• Morocco
• Iran
• Turkey
• Algeria
• Yemen
• Saudi Arabia
• Pakistan
• Syria

In the case of Saudi Arabia, it is illegal for women to drive, go anywhere without a chaperone, are required to limit the amount of time spent with men they are not related to, go for a swim, compete freely in sports, try on cloths when shopping, and entering a cemetery. This is not an all-inclusive list.

In many Islamic countries, jirga, vani, ba’ad, and “honor” killing are still actively practiced.

Jurists in these countries hold that certain types of testimony by women may not be accepted and that the testimony of two women equate to that of one man.

Verse 4:34 of the Quran allows and encourages domestic violence against women when a husband suspects disloyalty or ill conduct from their wife.

Those on the left (not all) are huge advocates for women’s rights in addition to being supporters of the migration of refugees from Islamic nations. One of the more popular arguments I hear for their stance on migration is that not all Islamic individuals are extremist and while this is without a doubt true.. not all Muslims are extremists yet the majority still hold these practices and ideologies. Is it fair to say that the left is more concerned with the mass medias portrayal of Muslims as terrorist while ignoring the fact that there is a larger issue at hand? Even if there was a way to vet the bad apples, there is still a more fundamental issue of disagreement between American society and Islamic beliefs. An issue which could turn dangerous to what we perceive as the American way of life.

 

[Pogo]

On a cursory read, you're conflating religions with cultures here. It's an Association Fallacy.

"Honor" killing for a good example. We've done that to death here, no pun intended. It's a cultural practice far FAR older than Islam, Christianism and Hinduism combined. It's not a religious ritual at all. Never has been. Same with the various patriarchal attitudes toward women. The root is fundamentalist primitive patriarchy, not some religion that happens to cohabitate the same place.

 

[the207life]

On a cursory read, you're conflating religions with cultures here. It's an Association Fallacy.

"Honor" killing for a good example. We've done that to death here, no pun intended. It's a cultural practice far FAR older than Islam, Christianism and Hinduism combined. It's not a religious ritual at all. Never has been. Same with the various patriarchal attitudes toward women. The root is fundamentalist primitive patriarchy, not some religion that happens to cohabitate the same place.

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait. One that predates Islam. Taking individuals with these beliefs, whether religious or cultural, and relocating them does not mean the beliefs will dissipate.

 

[OldLady]

A gender gap study by the World Economic Forum states that 17 out of the 18 worst performing nations in relation to woman’s rights are members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation.

• Algeria
• Jordan
• Lebanon
• Nepal
• Turkey
• Oman
• Egypt
• Mali
• Morocco
• Ivory Coast
• Saudi Arabia
• Syria
• Chad
• Pakistan
• Yemen

The Population Reference Bureau stated in Women of Our World that 16% of Pakistani women are either employed or available to furnish labor. This statistic parallels the fact that Middle Eastern countries in addition to North Africa rank the lowest in terms of economic participation, employment opportunity and the the humanitarian rights and empowerment of women.

The ten countries with the lowest participation in the workforce by women are:

• Jordan
• Oman
• Morocco
• Iran
• Turkey
• Algeria
• Yemen
• Saudi Arabia
• Pakistan
• Syria

In the case of Saudi Arabia, it is illegal for women to drive, go anywhere without a chaperone, are required to limit the amount of time spent with men they are not related to, go for a swim, compete freely in sports, try on cloths when shopping, and entering a cemetery. This is not an all-inclusive list.

In many Islamic countries, jirga, vani, ba’ad, and “honor” killing are still actively practiced.

Jurists in these countries hold that certain types of testimony by women may not be accepted and that the testimony of two women equate to that of one man.

Verse 4:34 of the Quran allows and encourages domestic violence against women when a husband suspects disloyalty or ill conduct from their wife.

Those on the left (not all) are huge advocates for women’s rights in addition to being supporters of the migration of refugees from Islamic nations. One of the more popular arguments I hear for their stance on migration is that not all Islamic individuals are extremist and while this is without a doubt true.. not all Muslims are extremists yet the majority still hold these practices and ideologies. Is it fair to say that the left is more concerned with the mass medias portrayal of Muslims as terrorist while ignoring the fact that there is a larger issue at hand? Even if there was a way to vet the bad apples, there is still a more fundamental issue of disagreement between American society and Islamic beliefs. An issue which could turn dangerous to what we perceive as the American way of life.

Even if there was a way to vet the bad apples, there is still a more fundamental issue of disagreement between American society and Islamic beliefs. An issue which could turn dangerous to what we perceive as the American way of life.

Yo. Don't worry about it. No American woman is going to go for that codswallop.

 

[Pogo]

On a cursory read, you're conflating religions with cultures here. It's an Association Fallacy.

"Honor" killing for a good example. We've done that to death here, no pun intended. It's a cultural practice far FAR older than Islam, Christianism and Hinduism combined. It's not a religious ritual at all. Never has been. Same with the various patriarchal attitudes toward women. The root is fundamentalist primitive patriarchy, not some religion that happens to cohabitate the same place.

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait. One that predates Islam. Taking individuals with these beliefs, whether religious or cultural, and relocating them does not mean the beliefs will dissipate.

Yes, agreed. But it's counterproductive to knowingly attribute such traits to a false cause (i.e. "Islamic beliefs" -- they're no more "Islamic" than they are "Hinduistic"). That just takes our eye off the ball, and in effect perpetuates the status quo.

It's also immediately wandering from the topic as stated in the title, which is not patriarchal attitudes but "terrorism". So I'm not sure which way we're going here.

 

[the207life]

Yes, agreed. But it's counterproductive to knowingly attribute such traits to a false cause (i.e. "Islamic beliefs" -- they're no more "Islamic" than they are "Hinduistic"). That just takes our eye off the ball, and in effect perpetuates the status quo.

It's also immediately wandering from the topic as stated in the title, which is not patriarchal attitudes but "terrorism". So I'm not sure which way we're going here.

I'm torn on this issue as having served in the military I had exposure to the culture beyond what I had beforehand. I openly acknowledge that this was somewhat of a blanket statement yet I also have to say that in my eyes it's somewhat justified. Just trying to get other opinions on it.

Even if Islamic beliefs are no more Islamic than they are Hinduisic.. it doesn't alleviate the threat of moving individuals from a society with such beliefs to one such as what we have in the US. Accepting a threat simply to move beyond it or solve the issue at hand doesn't eliminate that threat. I'm not stating that all Muslims are threats but it would be naive to think one doesn't exist. I guess I just difficult to keep my eye on the ball when I don't see the ball.

I included terrorism as the argument that not all Muslims are terrorist is one that I hear consistently as an opposition to banning entry into the country. I just feel there is a larger issue than extremist groups (that was scary to type).

 

[The Irish Ram]

Islam is a complete system, that encompasses cultural and religious beliefs.

 

[Pogo]

Islam is a complete system, that encompasses cultural and religious beliefs.

There's no such thing. That's an conflation which intentionally ignores distinctions in order to lump two disparate dynamics together into a synthesis that does not exist in the real world. As such, it is destructive to discourse.

 

[320 Years of History]

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait.

...But what that doesn't make it is related to a religious belief...the correlation is circumstantial, not causal.

Other:
What does the treatment of women in some Islamically ruled countries have to do with Islamic terrorism? (alluded to in your title)

 

[the207life]

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait.

...But what that doesn't make it is related to a religious belief...the correlation is circumstantial, not causal.

Other:
What does the treatment of women in some Islamically ruled countries have to do with Islamic terrorism? (alluded to in your title)

So it's an issue of their society? The society consisting of the individuals which debate caries on about migration to the US?

Again, I was just noting that the only argument I consistently hear is that not all Muslims are terrorists when I feel as though there is a lot more on the plate. Hence, blinded by not all Muslims are terrorists. Maybe I chose the wrong wording and for that I apologize.

 

[Pogo]

Even if Islamic beliefs are no more Islamic than they are Hinduisic.. it doesn't alleviate the threat of moving individuals from a society with such beliefs to one such as what we have in the US. Accepting a threat simply to move beyond it or solve the issue at hand doesn't eliminate that threat. I guess I just difficult to keep my eye on the ball when I don't see the ball.

No it doesn't, and no one claims it does. But deliberately mischaracterizing them as religious bases only muddies the waters, creates division among all those to whom the stereotype clearly does not apply, and, as I said, perpetuates the status quo.

I included terrorism as the argument that not all Muslims are terrorist is one that I hear consistently as an opposition to banning entry into the country. I just feel there is a larger issue than extremist groups (that was scary to type).

As far as terrorism (if that's what the topic is intended to be) --- the issue IS extremism. It's no larger than that. Perhaps conflating it with "religion" (or anything else) is a way of making it larger than it deserves to be.

 

[Pogo]

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait.

...But what that doesn't make it is related to a religious belief...the correlation is circumstantial, not causal.

Other:
What does the treatment of women in some Islamically ruled countries have to do with Islamic terrorism? (alluded to in your title)

So it's an issue of their society? The society consisting of the individuals which debate caries on about migration to the US?

Again, I was just noting that the only argument I consistently hear is that not all Muslims are terrorists when I feel as though there is a lot more on the plate. Hence, blinded by not all Muslims are terrorists. Maybe I chose the wrong wording and for that I apologize.

No biggie. Leave us just establish which course we're on .... "terrorism" or "patriarchy".

The commonly flung myth about 'migration to the US' is another deliberate 180 conflation, as the (Syrian) outflux is fleeing, not perpetuating, terrorism and more accurately, simple war. It becomes necessary to the mythologists to portray them as occupying the opposite position from where they actually are, in order to sell the myth. It's a kind of Doublethink.

That's an entirely separate question from patriarchal culture though.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Islam is a complete system, that encompasses cultural and religious beliefs.

There's no such thing. That's an conflation which intentionally ignores distinctions in order to lump two disparate dynamics together into a synthesis that does not exist in the real world. As such, it is destructive to discourse.

There is exactly such a thing. Followers of Islam go to mosques to pray then walk outside and follow Sharia LAW, based on the teachings in the Quran. It is a complete system encompassing religion and civil law.
In America, Christians and atheists alike, follow the law based on our Constitution.

 

[Pogo]

Islam is a complete system, that encompasses cultural and religious beliefs.

There's no such thing. That's an conflation which intentionally ignores distinctions in order to lump two disparate dynamics together into a synthesis that does not exist in the real world. As such, it is destructive to discourse.

There is exactly such a thing. Followers of Islam go to mosques to pray then walk outside and follow Sharia LAW, based on the teachings in the Quran. It is a complete system encompassing religion and civil law.
In America, Christians and atheists alike, follow the law based on our Constitution.

---- and Jews and Jainists and Buddhists, etc etc. But the Constitution is a constitution. It's not a religious document.

None of which has to do with culture -- which is the conflation you made. Culture is the linguistic expressions we use, and the way we dress, and the music we listen to, and the sports we watch or play, and the evergreens we decorate our houses with for the winter solstice. None of that has jack squat to do with either the Constitution or religion.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait.

...But what that doesn't make it is related to a religious belief...the correlation is circumstantial, not causal.

Other:
What does the treatment of women in some Islamically ruled countries have to do with Islamic terrorism? (alluded to in your title)

So it's an issue of their society? The society consisting of the individuals which debate caries on about migration to the US?

Again, I was just noting that the only argument I consistently hear is that not all Muslims are terrorists when I feel as though there is a lot more on the plate. Hence, blinded by not all Muslims are terrorists. Maybe I chose the wrong wording and for that I apologize.

No biggie. Leave us just establish which course we're on .... "terrorism" or "patriarchy".

The commonly flung myth about 'migration to the US' is another deliberate 180 conflation, as the (Syrian) outflux is fleeing, not perpetuating, terrorism and more accurately, simple war. It becomes necessary to the mythologists to portray them as occupying the opposite position from where they actually are, in order to sell the myth. It's a kind of Doublethink.

That's an entirely separate question from patriarchal culture though.

They are not fleeing. They are invading. They have perpetuated terrorism in every country that was kind enough to take them in. Rapes, murder, terrorism is the norm now in France, Germany and other countries that used to think exactly like you do. They are doing the 180. They are shoving the Muslims right back out of their countries now. And if we allow Obama to bring them here, it will be the norm here. This is a Muslim diaspora created and paid for by the UN. It is going to end very badly.

 

[Pogo]

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait.

...But what that doesn't make it is related to a religious belief...the correlation is circumstantial, not causal.

Other:
What does the treatment of women in some Islamically ruled countries have to do with Islamic terrorism? (alluded to in your title)

So it's an issue of their society? The society consisting of the individuals which debate caries on about migration to the US?

Again, I was just noting that the only argument I consistently hear is that not all Muslims are terrorists when I feel as though there is a lot more on the plate. Hence, blinded by not all Muslims are terrorists. Maybe I chose the wrong wording and for that I apologize.

No biggie. Leave us just establish which course we're on .... "terrorism" or "patriarchy".

The commonly flung myth about 'migration to the US' is another deliberate 180 conflation, as the (Syrian) outflux is fleeing, not perpetuating, terrorism and more accurately, simple war. It becomes necessary to the mythologists to portray them as occupying the opposite position from where they actually are, in order to sell the myth. It's a kind of Doublethink.

That's an entirely separate question from patriarchal culture though.

They are not fleeing. They are invading. They have perpetuated terrorism in every country that was kind enough to take them in. Rapes, murder, terrorism is the norm now in France, Germany and other countries that used to think exactly like you do. They are doing the 180. They are shoving the Muslims right back out of their countries now. And if we allow Obama to bring them here, it will be the norm here. This is a Muslim diaspora created and paid for by the UN. It is going to end very badly.

I uh, think you're following a bit too much hair-on-fire media.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Islam is a complete system, that encompasses cultural and religious beliefs.

There's no such thing. That's an conflation which intentionally ignores distinctions in order to lump two disparate dynamics together into a synthesis that does not exist in the real world. As such, it is destructive to discourse.

There is exactly such a thing. Followers of Islam go to mosques to pray then walk outside and follow Sharia LAW, based on the teachings in the Quran. It is a complete system encompassing religion and civil law.
In America, Christians and atheists alike, follow the law based on our Constitution.

---- and Jews and Jainists and Buddhists, etc etc. But the Constitution is a constitution. It's not a religious document.

None of which has to do with culture -- which is the conflation you made. Culture is the linguistic expressions we use, and the way we dress, and the music we listen to, and the sports we watch or play, and the evergreens we decorate our houses with for the winter solstice. None of that has jack squat to do with either the Constitution or religion.

Sharia Law is law based on the teachings of the Quran. You keep trying to separate the two. You cannot.
Insult their religious leader Mohammad, and see their laws in action.
Whereas Jews, Christians, Buddhists, and atheists follow the same laws in America, because there is a division of church and state.

 

[Pogo]

Islam is a complete system, that encompasses cultural and religious beliefs.

There's no such thing. That's an conflation which intentionally ignores distinctions in order to lump two disparate dynamics together into a synthesis that does not exist in the real world. As such, it is destructive to discourse.

There is exactly such a thing. Followers of Islam go to mosques to pray then walk outside and follow Sharia LAW, based on the teachings in the Quran. It is a complete system encompassing religion and civil law.
In America, Christians and atheists alike, follow the law based on our Constitution.

---- and Jews and Jainists and Buddhists, etc etc. But the Constitution is a constitution. It's not a religious document.

None of which has to do with culture -- which is the conflation you made. Culture is the linguistic expressions we use, and the way we dress, and the music we listen to, and the sports we watch or play, and the evergreens we decorate our houses with for the winter solstice. None of that has jack squat to do with either the Constitution or religion.

Sharia Law is law based on the teachings of the Quran. You keep trying to separate the two. You cannot.
Insult their religious leader Mohammad, and see their laws in action.
Whereas Jews, Christians, Buddhists, and atheists follow the same laws in America, because there is a division of church and state.

Sigh....

>> >> Pennsylvania enacted a law against blasphemy in 1977. In the fall of 2007, George Kalman sent the completed forms for incorporating a company to the Pennsylvania Department of State. Kalman wanted to incorporate a movie-production company which he called I Choose Hell Productions, LLC. A week later, Kalman received a notice from the Pennsylvania Department of State which informed him that his forms could not be accepted because a business name “may not contain words that constitute blasphemy, profane cursing or swearing or that profane the Lord’s name.” In February 2009, Kalman filed suit to have the provision against blasphemy struck down as unconstitutional.[1] On June 30, 2010, U.S. District Judge Michael M. Bayslon of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, in a 68-page Opinion, ruled in favor of Kalman, finding that the Pennsylvania's blasphemy statute violated both the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. << --- Blasphemy Laws in the United States​

- - - - - - -​

Books Banned from School Library for "contradicting the Bible"

- - - - - - -​

​

Again, you're trying to draw distinctions where few exist.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I agree with what your saying but as you say, it's as a cultural practice and still a wide spread belief. Whether it is religiously driven or culturally driven, it's still actively practiced and not shunned. When you say some religion that happens to exist in the same place, it still makes it a deep routed identity trait.

...But what that doesn't make it is related to a religious belief...the correlation is circumstantial, not causal.

Other:
What does the treatment of women in some Islamically ruled countries have to do with Islamic terrorism? (alluded to in your title)

So it's an issue of their society? The society consisting of the individuals which debate caries on about migration to the US?

Again, I was just noting that the only argument I consistently hear is that not all Muslims are terrorists when I feel as though there is a lot more on the plate. Hence, blinded by not all Muslims are terrorists. Maybe I chose the wrong wording and for that I apologize.

No biggie. Leave us just establish which course we're on .... "terrorism" or "patriarchy".

The commonly flung myth about 'migration to the US' is another deliberate 180 conflation, as the (Syrian) outflux is fleeing, not perpetuating, terrorism and more accurately, simple war. It becomes necessary to the mythologists to portray them as occupying the opposite position from where they actually are, in order to sell the myth. It's a kind of Doublethink.

That's an entirely separate question from patriarchal culture though.

sigh
They are not fleeing. They are invading. They have perpetuated terrorism in every country that was kind enough to take them in. Rapes, murder, terrorism is the norm now in France, Germany and other countries that used to think exactly like you do. They are doing the 180. They are shoving the Muslims right back out of their countries now. And if we allow Obama to bring them here, it will be the norm here. This is a Muslim diaspora created and paid for by the UN. It is going to end very badly.

I uh, think you're following a bit too much hair-on-fire media.

Following the French whose hair is on fire, and the German's whose hair is on fire, and the steps that those countries are taking to put their hair out. Unless you think the media is making up the terrorist attacks, the rapes, the invasions, you had better get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall. The Germans held to your belief, so did France. They have seen the light, after the fact. America needs to learn from their example, and not make the same mistake.
These are Germans taking to the streets to insist the invasions stop:

Germany's anti-Islam PEGIDA movement staged rallies in several cities across Europe on Saturday to protest against the arrival of hundreds of thousands of migrants from the Middle East and Africa.

The movement, whose name stands for Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West, originated in the eastern German city of Dresden in 2014, with supporters seizing on a surge in asylum seekers to warn that Germany risks being overrun by Muslims.

 

[Pogo]

...But what that doesn't make it is related to a religious belief...the correlation is circumstantial, not causal.

Other:
What does the treatment of women in some Islamically ruled countries have to do with Islamic terrorism? (alluded to in your title)

So it's an issue of their society? The society consisting of the individuals which debate caries on about migration to the US?

Again, I was just noting that the only argument I consistently hear is that not all Muslims are terrorists when I feel as though there is a lot more on the plate. Hence, blinded by not all Muslims are terrorists. Maybe I chose the wrong wording and for that I apologize.

No biggie. Leave us just establish which course we're on .... "terrorism" or "patriarchy".

The commonly flung myth about 'migration to the US' is another deliberate 180 conflation, as the (Syrian) outflux is fleeing, not perpetuating, terrorism and more accurately, simple war. It becomes necessary to the mythologists to portray them as occupying the opposite position from where they actually are, in order to sell the myth. It's a kind of Doublethink.

That's an entirely separate question from patriarchal culture though.

sigh
They are not fleeing. They are invading. They have perpetuated terrorism in every country that was kind enough to take them in. Rapes, murder, terrorism is the norm now in France, Germany and other countries that used to think exactly like you do. They are doing the 180. They are shoving the Muslims right back out of their countries now. And if we allow Obama to bring them here, it will be the norm here. This is a Muslim diaspora created and paid for by the UN. It is going to end very badly.

I uh, think you're following a bit too much hair-on-fire media.

Following the French whose hair is on fire, and the German's whose hair is on fire, and the steps that those countries are taking to put their hair out. Unless you think the media is making up the terrorist attacks, the rapes, the invasions, you had better get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall. The Germans held to your belief, so did France. They have seen the light, after the fact. America needs to learn from their example, and not make the same mistake.
These are Germans taking to the streets to insist the invasions stop:

Germany's anti-Islam PEGIDA movement staged rallies in several cities across Europe on Saturday to protest against the arrival of hundreds of thousands of migrants from the Middle East and Africa.

The movement, whose name stands for Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West, originated in the eastern German city of Dresden in 2014, with supporters seizing on a surge in asylum seekers to warn that Germany risks being overrun by Muslims.

Your statement was, and I quote:

"rapes, murder, terrorism is the norm now"
​

Not only have you failed to make that case, you've confirmed what I noted about cherrypicked media, and have in no way addressed the actual topic.