China is to Blame for This

Is China to Blame for this Pandemic and the Shutdown of the Global Economy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 77.3%
  • No

    Votes: 10 22.7%

  • Total voters
    44

OldLady

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
59,777
Reaction score
12,311
Points
2,220
Okay, that got wicked long. Sorry.

What do you think?

P.S. I'm a strong supporter of the UN and of WHO, but humans are fallible.
As you rightly quoted:

“There’s not only the financial toll on a country that is dealing with this outbreak, but this can discourage transparency, both in this outbreak and in the future,” Worsnop said.​
Travel and trade restrictions can lead to dire economic consequences for countries involved, creating a disincentive for them to quickly disclose potential outbreaks to the WHO or other nations. They can hinder the sharing of information, make it harder to track cases and their contacts, and disrupt the medical supply chain, potentially fueling shortages of drugs and medical supplies in the areas hit hardest by the outbreak. They also send a punitive message, which could contribute to discrimination and stigmatization against Chinese nationals, experts warned.​

Moreover, it isn't as if travel restrictions couldn't be circumvented. Among the worst probably is the incentive to suppress information - and not just for those hit, but for pretty much everyone. While it may seem intuitively the right thing to do, travel restrictions do not work, particularly not if the reaper is already in the house. Finally, it creates a false sense of security, serves as an excuse for inaction, and that is exactly how it played out. Still, as of this very day, the entire country is not in lock-down, and thus the most promising measures to counter the spread are not universally in place, and that will prolong the lock-down for everybody else. But hey, there's travel restrictions in place, and the Dear Leader let himself be seen doing ... something.
Travel and trade restrictions can lead to dire economic consequences for countries involved, creating a disincentive for them to quickly disclose potential outbreaks to the WHO or other nations. They can hinder the sharing of information, make it harder to track cases and their contacts, and disrupt the medical supply chain,
But an international team was already there and China's cat was out of the bag, anyway. What need to "suppress" information did China have by that point? I dunno, maybe I'm too cynical, but I think China was looking at it's pocketbook, same as Trump was when he kept reassuring us the Virus was nothing to worry about. He had one eye on the stock market, I'm pretty darned sure.
 

Olde Europe

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
5,556
Reaction score
4,325
Points
2,065
Travel and trade restrictions can lead to dire economic consequences for countries involved, creating a disincentive for them to quickly disclose potential outbreaks to the WHO or other nations. They can hinder the sharing of information, make it harder to track cases and their contacts, and disrupt the medical supply chain,

But an international team was already there and China's cat was out of the bag, anyway. What need to "suppress" information did China have by that point? I dunno, maybe I'm too cynical, but I think China was looking at it's pocketbook, same as Trump was when he kept reassuring us the Virus was nothing to worry about. He had one eye on the stock market, I'm pretty darned sure.
Of course, they are all looking at their pocketbook (among other things) - that is legitimate. However, pocketbook deliberations should not be allowed to trump (pun!) medical or scientific deliberations and conclusions. The Chinese might suppress information about new cases, pretend they are clean, so as to have the restrictions lifted. The main point was, however, the incentive for everybody else to suppress information to avoid, as long as possible, the restrictions.
 

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
34,931
Reaction score
2,122
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California
He didn't say the virus was a hoax.
"During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying 'this is their new hoax.'"

Trump said coronavirus was the Democrats' "new hoax",, but the virus itself is not a hoax? Actually, Trump is the hoax and those who support his cons are distinctions without any differences.
 

JimBowie1958

Old Fogey
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
59,817
Reaction score
10,974
Points
2,070
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
I dunno, maybe I'm too cynical, but I think China was looking at it's pocketbook, same as Trump was when he kept reassuring us the Virus was nothing to worry about. He had one eye on the stock market, I'm pretty darned sure.
Well, thank Gaawd someone is looking out for the Stock Markets from time to time!

Alot of retirement accounts need that.

And, BTW, Old Shyte is once again being his typical dumbass self when he says that traffic restrictions are circumventable.

Of course they are but that is not the point. REDUCING traffic is the point, but if Trump said it, it just has to be wrong! lol.
 

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
34,931
Reaction score
2,122
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California
Capitalism is to blame for this crisis.

Response to COVID-19 crisis: Ideology makes a difference

"The economic and political structure of capitalism requires 'an ideology, a consciousness, a way in which the citizenry can be taught to accept the system as it is.'

"'This ideology has many branches but one root, the maintenance and enhancement of the capitalist economic system.'

"'The elements of the dominant political ideology include: privileging individualism over community; conceptualizing society as a brutal state of nature controlled only by countervailing force; acceptance of the idea that humans are at base greedy; and, finally, the belief that the avariciousness of human nature requires police force and laws at home and armies overseas' (Harry Targ, Heartland Radical)."


Currently, there is no vaccine available to treat Covid-19 because the lack of a profit motive prevented capitalists from creating one.

MAGA (morons).
 

OldLady

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
59,777
Reaction score
12,311
Points
2,220
I dunno, maybe I'm too cynical, but I think China was looking at it's pocketbook, same as Trump was when he kept reassuring us the Virus was nothing to worry about. He had one eye on the stock market, I'm pretty darned sure.
Well, thank Gaawd someone is looking out for the Stock Markets from time to time!

Alot of retirement accounts need that.

And, BTW, Old Shyte is once again being his typical dumbass self when he says that traffic restrictions are circumventable.

Of course they are but that is not the point. REDUCING traffic is the point, but if Trump said it, it just has to be wrong! lol.
They both put economic health ahead of their citizens' health. Money or lives? Both China and Trump knew it was seriously contagious and that we were helpless against it. I am still in your corner on the WHO singing China's tune though, at least at the end of January. WHO is a good organization, an essential organization, and it's a tough job dealing with every friggin country in the world. Sure they have to be diplomatic. But it seems to me they were firmly on the side of protecting the current Director's benefactor. Maybe they always do that; I don't know. Maybe you and I are too cynical. Could be.
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
58,333
Reaction score
8,145
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
He didn't say the virus was a hoax.
"During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying 'this is their new hoax.'"

Trump said coronavirus was the Democrats' "new hoax",, but the virus itself is not a hoax? Actually, Trump is the hoax and those who support his cons are distinctions without any differences.
likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response....'this is their new hoax.'

It's in your own post.
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
58,333
Reaction score
8,145
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
Capitalism is to blame for this crisis.

Response to COVID-19 crisis: Ideology makes a difference

"The economic and political structure of capitalism requires 'an ideology, a consciousness, a way in which the citizenry can be taught to accept the system as it is.'

"'This ideology has many branches but one root, the maintenance and enhancement of the capitalist economic system.'

"'The elements of the dominant political ideology include: privileging individualism over community; conceptualizing society as a brutal state of nature controlled only by countervailing force; acceptance of the idea that humans are at base greedy; and, finally, the belief that the avariciousness of human nature requires police force and laws at home and armies overseas' (Harry Targ, Heartland Radical)."


Currently, there is no vaccine available to treat Covid-19 because the lack of a profit motive prevented capitalists from creating one.

MAGA (morons).
Currently, there is no vaccine available to treat Covid-19 because the lack of a profit motive prevented capitalists from creating one.

Commies never have a profit motive.
Is that why they never create anything?
 

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
34,931
Reaction score
2,122
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California
Commies never have a profit motive.
Is that why they never create anything?
Define "anything."
Saving lives is the Cubans' primary concern as opposed to capitalism's penchant to kill for profit.


Cuban docs fighting coronavirus around world, defying US

"HAVANA (AP) — For two years the Trump administration has been trying to stamp out one of Cuba’s signature programs __ state-employed medical workers treating patients around the globe in a show of soft power that also earns billions in badly needed hard currency.

"Labeling the doctors and nurses as both exploited workers and agents of communist indoctrination, the U.S. has notched a series of victories as Brazil, Ecuador and Bolivia sent home thousands after leftist governments allied with Havana were replaced with ones friendlier to Washington.

"The coronavirus pandemic has brought a reversal of fortune for Cuban medical diplomacy, as doctors have flown off on new missions to battle COVID-19 in at least 14 countries including Italy and the tiny principality of Andorra on the Spanish-French border, burnishing the island’s international image in the middle of a global crisis."
 

Polishprince

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
19,998
Reaction score
4,728
Points
290
Currently, there is no vaccine available to treat Covid-19 because the lack of a profit motive prevented capitalists from creating one.

you don't understand our system, GP. Capitalists don't create anything, they are just the catalyst for creation. They provide the finance for it.

As far as this Chinese Kung Flu is concerned, there is already a vaccine for the bug devised at UPMC. It just has to be approved by regulators which takes time.
 

Vandalshandle

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
20,852
Reaction score
3,762
Points
290
Location
Southern AZ
I don't get Fox news, because I don't have cable. Thank god that there are threads like this that keep us abreast of who we are supposed to blame for everything. I just can't keep it straight from week to week if we are contemptuous of the Latinos, Muslims, democrats, communists, shithole African countries, or Chinese.
 

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
34,931
Reaction score
2,122
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
58,333
Reaction score
8,145
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
Commies never have a profit motive.
Is that why they never create anything?
Define "anything."
Saving lives is the Cubans' primary concern as opposed to capitalism's penchant to kill for profit.


Cuban docs fighting coronavirus around world, defying US

"HAVANA (AP) — For two years the Trump administration has been trying to stamp out one of Cuba’s signature programs __ state-employed medical workers treating patients around the globe in a show of soft power that also earns billions in badly needed hard currency.

"Labeling the doctors and nurses as both exploited workers and agents of communist indoctrination, the U.S. has notched a series of victories as Brazil, Ecuador and Bolivia sent home thousands after leftist governments allied with Havana were replaced with ones friendlier to Washington.

"The coronavirus pandemic has brought a reversal of fortune for Cuban medical diplomacy, as doctors have flown off on new missions to battle COVID-19 in at least 14 countries including Italy and the tiny principality of Andorra on the Spanish-French border, burnishing the island’s international image in the middle of a global crisis."
Saving lives is the Cubans' primary concern

Yeah, Che was big on saving lives.
 

georgephillip

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
34,931
Reaction score
2,122
Points
1,125
Location
Los Angeles, California
you don't understand our system, GP. Capitalists don't create anything, they are just the catalyst for creation. They provide the finance for it.
They are highly reluctant to provide such financing if they see little profit in their creation, as our experience with malaria during the Vietnam War revealed:

https://secureservercdn.net/198.71..../Ralph-Nader-Radio-Hour-Ep-316-Transcript.pdf

"When the Vietnam War was underway, the second leading hospitalization cause for U.S. soldiers was malaria, and so the Pentagon went to the U.S. drug companies and said, 'Step up, please. We want you to develop anti-malarial drugs and possible vaccines,' and the drug companies said, 'Get lost. It's not profitable enough.'

"So the Pentagon said, 'Really?' and they started their own drug company inside Walter Reed Hospital and Bethesda Naval Hospital, PhDs, MDs, and they developed, with quite a high degree of speed, the three out of four leading anti-malarial drugs in the world."
 

Olde Europe

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
5,556
Reaction score
4,325
Points
2,065
WHO is a good organization, an essential organization, and it's a tough job dealing with every friggin country in the world. Sure they have to be diplomatic. But it seems to me they were firmly on the side of protecting the current Director's benefactor.
The entire WHO works for China because China invested in Ethiopia when the Dr. Tedros, the current WHO Director-General, was Ethiopia's foreign minister? That connection is so tenuous as to be barely visible. Why doesn't this entire story strike you as a flimsy and extremely unlikely conspiracy theory?

When, on the other hand, you were exactly on the right track. The WHO deals with, yes, a lot of uncanny regimes. Their mission is not to kick in teeth, and the rightarded PC requirements (invariably badmouth and insult Those people and their shithole countries) do not further the WHO mission. That would be the long-term improvement of the health of the world's population, not masturbatory satisfaction by way of taking a dump on all those "inferior critters" around.

If you took the time to read the link to the WHO report I provided upstream, you may have noticed there's a section with "suggestions" for improvements. If you read that one attentively, you sure inferred the issues mentioned there went less than perfectly. Thus the need for improvements, and there were quite a few of them. Yes, that requires some attention, but the charge the WHO uncritically touts China's horn is unwarranted, even though rightards howl about it day-in, day-out, because their language comprehension begins and ends at "shithole country".
 

yidnar

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
11,004
Reaction score
2,814
Points
245
Location
Inside your head.
Okay, that got wicked long. Sorry.

What do you think?

P.S. I'm a strong supporter of the UN and of WHO, but humans are fallible.
As you rightly quoted:

“There’s not only the financial toll on a country that is dealing with this outbreak, but this can discourage transparency, both in this outbreak and in the future,” Worsnop said.​
Travel and trade restrictions can lead to dire economic consequences for countries involved, creating a disincentive for them to quickly disclose potential outbreaks to the WHO or other nations. They can hinder the sharing of information, make it harder to track cases and their contacts, and disrupt the medical supply chain, potentially fueling shortages of drugs and medical supplies in the areas hit hardest by the outbreak. They also send a punitive message, which could contribute to discrimination and stigmatization against Chinese nationals, experts warned.​

Moreover, it isn't as if travel restrictions couldn't be circumvented. Among the worst probably is the incentive to suppress information - and not just for those hit, but for pretty much everyone. While it may seem intuitively the right thing to do, travel restrictions do not work, particularly not if the reaper is already in the house. Finally, it creates a false sense of security, serves as an excuse for inaction, and that is exactly how it played out. Still, as of this very day, the entire country is not in lock-down, and thus the most promising measures to counter the spread are not universally in place, and that will prolong the lock-down for everybody else. But hey, there's travel restrictions in place, and the Dear Leader let himself be seen doing ... something.
Travel and trade restrictions can lead to dire economic consequences for countries involved, creating a disincentive for them to quickly disclose potential outbreaks to the WHO or other nations. They can hinder the sharing of information, make it harder to track cases and their contacts, and disrupt the medical supply chain,
But an international team was already there and China's cat was out of the bag, anyway. What need to "suppress" information did China have by that point? I dunno, maybe I'm too cynical, but I think China was looking at it's pocketbook, same as Trump was when he kept reassuring us the Virus was nothing to worry about. He had one eye on the stock market, I'm pretty darned sure.
who's fault is it that over 1.2 million people all over the world are infected ? is that Trumps fault ? are all those leaders in those countries incompetent like Trump is supposed to be ? the answer is no ! its the chicoms fault for deceiving the world and arresting doctors and journalist who tried to warn the rest of the world. the democratic party is an ally of china .the bidens and the clintons absolutely lov$ the chicoms.
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Top