Chemistry Expert: Carbon Dioxide Can’t Cause Global Warming

[SSDD]

Daveman,

how much energy is contained in a mylar blanket you might use to warm yourself on a chilly winter night?

The mylar blanket blocks convection and conduction of heat away from your body...CO2 can't do that by any stretch of the imagination.

In the GW analogy that uses a valve to restrict the draining of a tank of water, how much water is actually contained in the valve?[/qiuote]

Except that it doesn't happen...GHE effect assumes that radiation is the primary mode of energy movement through the troposphere...it isn't. Convection and conduction are the primary modes of energy movement through the troposphere. Radiation plays barely a bit part...and CO2 certainly doesn't act as any sort of valve in energy movement...

But feel free to provide some observed, measured evidence that supports your claim that it does...

Stupid....stupid...stupid...

 

[westwall]

Daveman,

how much energy is contained in a mylar blanket you might use to warm yourself on a chilly winter night?

The mylar blanket blocks convection and conduction of heat away from your body...CO2 can't do that by any stretch of the imagination.

In the GW analogy that uses a valve to restrict the draining of a tank of water, how much water is actually contained in the valve?[/qiuote]

Except that it doesn't happen...GHE effect assumes that radiation is the primary mode of energy movement through the troposphere...it isn't. Convection and conduction are the primary modes of energy movement through the troposphere. Radiation plays barely a bit part...and CO2 certainly doesn't act as any sort of valve in energy movement...

But feel free to provide some observed, measured evidence that supports your claim that it does...

Stupid....stupid...stupid...

Oh, don't get all sciencey with crikey, he doesn't understand.

 

[daveman]

Daveman,

how much energy is contained in a mylar blanket you might use to warm yourself on a chilly winter night?

In the GW analogy that uses a valve to restrict the draining of a tank of water, how much water is actually contained in the valve?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

This thread was directed at people with knowledge of thermodynamics.

Obviously, your input was not requested.

 

[Crick]

I have a BSc in Ocean Engineering. That included two semesters of thermodynamics and one of heat transfer (non-equilibrium thermodynamics).

Your source spends a good deal of time comparing the total heat capacity of the atmosphere and the oceans and then claims the former hasn't the capacity to warm the latter. I just wonder, then, how do mylar blankets keep anyone warm. They mass virtually nothing.

That you should not want me to participate in this discussion tells me only that you know you haven't got a fucking leg to stand on.

 

[westwall]

I have a BSc in Ocean Engineering. That included two semesters of thermodynamics and one of heat transfer (non-equilibrium thermodynamics).

Your source spends a good deal of time comparing the total heat capacity of the atmosphere and the oceans and then claims the former hasn't the capacity to warm the latter. I just wonder, then, how do mylar blankets keep anyone warm. They mass virtually nothing.

That you should not want me to participate in this discussion tells me only that you know you haven't got a fucking leg to stand on.

Then perhaps you can explain to us how the mylar merely retains the heat of the body. it doesn't add heat.

 

[daveman]

I have a BSc in Ocean Engineering. That included two semesters of thermodynamics and one of heat transfer (non-equilibrium thermodynamics).

Your source spends a good deal of time comparing the total heat capacity of the atmosphere and the oceans and then claims the former hasn't the capacity to warm the latter. I just wonder, then, how do mylar blankets keep anyone warm. They mass virtually nothing.

That you should not want me to participate in this discussion tells me only that you know you haven't got a fucking leg to stand on.

Oh, it's not that I don't want you in the discussion. But your insistence that the atmosphere is analogous to a Mylar blanket shows you're not qualified.

 

[SSDD]

I have a BSc in Ocean Engineering. That included two semesters of thermodynamics and one of heat transfer (non-equilibrium thermodynamics).

Your source spends a good deal of time comparing the total heat capacity of the atmosphere and the oceans and then claims the former hasn't the capacity to warm the latter. I just wonder, then, how do mylar blankets keep anyone warm. They mass virtually nothing.

You are an idiot...aren't you? What sort of engineer who has actually taken college level courses in thermodynamics wonders how mylar blankets keep you warm? If you had a clue, you would know that the mylar blanket keeps you warm by blocking the convection and conduction of energy away from your body...CO2 CAN NOT DO THAT...

That you should not want me to participate in this discussion tells me only that you know you haven't got a fucking leg to stand on.

You obviously aren't bright enough to participate...go learn about why mylar blankets keep you warm...and then see if you can figure out how mylar blankets are different from a minor gas in the atmosphere...

 

[SSDD]

I have a BSc in Ocean Engineering. That included two semesters of thermodynamics and one of heat transfer (non-equilibrium thermodynamics).

Your source spends a good deal of time comparing the total heat capacity of the atmosphere and the oceans and then claims the former hasn't the capacity to warm the latter. I just wonder, then, how do mylar blankets keep anyone warm. They mass virtually nothing.

That you should not want me to participate in this discussion tells me only that you know you haven't got a fucking leg to stand on.

Oh, it's not that I don't want you in the discussion. But your insistence that the atmosphere is analogous to a Mylar blanket shows you're not qualified.

He claims to be an engineer but is unable to understand how a mylar blanket keeps you warm...guess in whatever short bus college he went to he took the discount thermodynamics course and they didn't talk about convection and conduction...all he got was radiation and clearly he doesn't understand that one ether...

 

[gtopa1]

Hey man....I own a 2014 Mustang Gt making 432hp at the tire. I routinely pull up to those faggy hybrid/electric vehicles and do brief burnouts right next to them! You want to see heads explode? I damn near shit my shorts laughing so hard.....these people want to kill me!!.....its one of my favorite things to do!

Almost as much fun as bonfires using truck tires!!!!

Throw another retread on the barbie!!!!

Greg

 

[Billy_Bob]

Carbon dioxide doesn't heat the ocean directly, it heats the atmosphere which in turn heats the ocean ...

LOL... This statement is pretty much categorically false...

First of all is the 10 micron layer of water called the skin where evaporation is taking place. Any heat from the atmosphere is expelled by this layer as the water directly below this layer is cooler than the atmosphere. This thermocline barrier takes a lot of energy to defeat. This is why warm air above a body of water will not warm it.

CO2 radiates its absorbed heat/energy instantaneously so it can not warm the atmosphere unless there is water vapor in sufficient quantities and energy in sufficient quantities to warm that water vapor. Water vapor content below about 40% will not warm the atmosphere. Water vapor above this 40% threshold can IF there is sufficient energy to warm it...

Then we have the problem of MicroCirculations.. (thunderstorms) These release the heat so quickly above the clouds that most of that energy is gone very quickly.

There are many things the AGW crowd does into take into account.

 

[mamooth]

The atmosphere just can't hold enough heat to warm up the oceans.

As we've pointed out many times before, that's not how it works.

Sunlight warms the oceans, then the oceans warm the air above them. Heat conducts from the oceans into the air, not the other way.

CO2 increases the downwelling IR backradiation.

That IR goes into the oceans, and is absorbed by the oceans. At least >90% is. The oceans reflect very little in the longwave IR band.

That reduces the net outflow of heat from the oceans. That means the oceans retain more heat, so the oceans get warmer. We measure that heating, directly, with amazing devices called "thermometers". They are accurate to +/- 0.002C, in the case of the Argo floats, and then statistical averaging reduces the errors even more.

It doesn't matter if the IR doesn't penetrate far. It still goes into the oceans, therefore that energy is added to the oceans. Energy must be conserved. That's contrary to the raving conspiracy theory claims of Westwall and BillyBob. According to their very peculiar babbling cult dogma, sunlight can't warm a rock, since the sunlight only barely penetrates the rock.

 

[mamooth]

Oh, it's not that I don't want you in the discussion. But your insistence that the atmosphere is analogous to a Mylar blanket shows you're not qualified.

Your full-metal-retard argument was that since the atmosphere weighed so little, it can't possibly have a warming effect.

He ripped that argument apart, decisively.

That caused the deniers to go into a frenzy of goalpost-moving. Instead of admitting that the "but it's too light!" argument was really dumb, they all shifted to different arguments. Standard denier dishonesty and intellectual cowardice.

 

[Billy_Bob]

As we've pointed out many times before, that's not how it works.

Sunlight warms the oceans, then the oceans warm the air above them. Heat conducts from the oceans into the air, not the other way.

CO2 increases the downwelling IR backradiation.

That IR goes into the oceans, and is absorbed by the oceans. At least >90% is. The oceans reflect very little in the longwave IR band.

That reduces the net outflow of heat from the oceans. That means the oceans retain more heat, so the oceans get warmer. We measure that heating, directly, with amazing devices called "thermometers". They are accurate to +/- 0.002C, in the case of the Argo floats, and then statistical averaging reduces the errors even more.

It doesn't matter if the IR doesn't penetrate far. It still goes into the oceans, therefore that energy is added to the oceans. Energy must be conserved. That's contrary to the raving conspiracy theory claims of Westwall and BillyBob. According to their very peculiar babbling cult dogma, sunlight can't warm a rock, since the sunlight only barely penetrates the rock.

You really are clueless... Thanks for playing...

 

[Billy_Bob]

Your full-metal-retard argument was that since the atmosphere weighed so little, it can't possibly have a warming effect.

He ripped that argument apart, decisively.

That caused the deniers to go into a frenzy of goalpost-moving. Instead of admitting that the "but it's too light!" argument was really dumb, they all shifted to different arguments. Standard denier dishonesty and intellectual cowardice.

You really have a hard problem with basic thermodynamics.. You should just stop making yourself look stupid and be quiet.

 

[elektra]

I have a BSc in Ocean Engineering. That included two semesters of thermodynamics and one of heat transfer (non-equilibrium thermodynamics).

Your source spends a good deal of time comparing the total heat capacity of the atmosphere and the oceans and then claims the former hasn't the capacity to warm the latter. I just wonder, then, how do mylar blankets keep anyone warm. They mass virtually nothing.

That you should not want me to participate in this discussion tells me only that you know you haven't got a fucking leg to stand on.

Crick is a sad sign of the state of our schools. If you work hard enough, even the idiots graduate. Crick has a Happy Face sticker/degree that says thanks for trying.

 

[Crick]

Crick is a sad sign of the state of our schools. If you work hard enough, even the idiots graduate. Crick has a Happy Face sticker/degree that says thanks for trying.

Why don't you attempt to demonstrate my ignorance instead of simply claiming it. How does a mylar blanket manage to warm someone up? For that matter, why is the Earth so much warmer than its bare black body numbers would indicate?

 

[mamooth]

You really have a hard problem with basic thermodynamics.. You should just stop making yourself look stupid and be quiet.

Billy, at what school were you enrolled in that doctoral program? Oh, that's right. You made up that dumb story -- that is, you lied outright -- because you're a sad fascist fraud.

Now, let's get back to doing what you hate most, which is talking about the science. Which you suck so hilariously at. Watching you cry and run never gets old.

Tell us more about your "conservation of energy only happens when I feel it should" theory, where you claim IR can't warm the oceans since it doesn't penetrate deeply. By your reasoning, that would mean sunlight can't warm a rock, being that sunlight can't penetrate beyond a fraction of a millimeter into a rock. Yet sunlight clearly will warm a rock. That means you're rejecting reality, and that makes you a delusional crank.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

You really have a hard problem with basic thermodynamics.. You should just stop making yourself look stupid and be quiet.

Mamamoothy cant help looking stupid, it is in the genes...

 

[westwall]

I'm not going to use numbers, just keep in mind that the astronomy parts of this tend to use astronomical numbers ...

We get energy from the Sun, and the Earth radiates energy back out into space, in a perfect world this would be joule for joule ... unfortunately, the atmosphere isn't transparent at the wavelengths of light that the Earth radiates at ... mostly due to the presence of water vapor and carbon dioxide ... so some small sliver of this energy flow remains in the atmosphere raising it's temperature ...

Now when the atmosphere's temperature rises, the sea surface will start drawing the energy out and adding to it's own temperature ... until the temperatures are the same again ... and as you pointed out, it takes A LOT of energy to raise the temperature of water ... the good news is that the higher temperatures make the sea surface more buoyant, so the extra energy stays at the surface ... until it conducts down the water column, that takes time ...

I think it's better to look at this in terms of power ... joules per second ... any amount of energy can be had given enough time ... and if all we're talking about is a couple degrees over a hundred years, then our power need not be all that great ... remember we're just heating the ocean surface, so it's easier to keep the atmosphere heated ...

Carbon dioxide doesn't heat the ocean directly, it heats the atmosphere which in turn heats the ocean ...

The atmosphere doesn't heat the oceans. Only the Sun has that ability. UV radiation penetrates 500 meters deep into the ocean and over billions of years that has raised the oceanic temps.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Billy, at what school were you enrolled in that doctoral program? Oh, that's right. You made up that dumb story -- that is, you lied outright -- because you're a sad fascist fraud.

Now, let's get back to doing what you hate most, which is talking about the science. Which you suck so hilariously at. Watching you cry and run never gets old.

Tell us more about your "conservation of energy only happens when I feel it should" theory, where you claim IR can't warm the oceans since it doesn't penetrate deeply. By your reasoning, that would mean sunlight can't warm a rock, being that sunlight can't penetrate beyond a fraction of a millimeter into a rock. Yet sunlight clearly will warm a rock. That means you're rejecting reality, and that makes you a delusional crank.

Please explain how you defeated the thermocline barrier on the surface of the ocean..