Turn deserts green as alternative theory on stabilization of the climate?

[Mushroom]

If we look at the problem, not the solution, 'holistically', we will likely discover that there are more efforts to destroy the earth going on than can be overcome by 'holistic' solutions.

Or simply to push some other agenda and hiding it under something else.

Look at how many of the promises of "utopia" are pushed under the claim of "saving the climate". And most of them tend to have a rather Marxist bend to them. As in "You do it our way or if we have a chance we will force you to do it our way".

I have an automatic distrust any time somebody tries to promise me "utopia". Because I have learned in reality it is never what they claim. And no matter how it fails, they will always blame it on something else.

 

[EMH]

I also believe that mega-scale desalination of sea water such as is being done at the Israeli "Sorek" desalination facility could really assist those sheep, cattle, goats or other herd animals

Amazing how good it works for our "allies" Israel, yet here in America, the demographic most obsessed with stopping desalination is.... same as those who live in Israel. Just about everyone blocking desalination in CA 25 years ago was Jewish, overwhelmingly LESBIAN Jewish, the most aggressive was "Republican" lesbian San Diego DA Bonnie Dumanis... the only "Republican" of course (most lesbians are Democrats). Desalination works. IT isn't cheap, but it is a lot cheaper than the Palisades fire. CO2 FRAUD is not only shouting it down, it is blocking it entirely by misdiagnosing the issue of the fires.

When what is good for our "allies" Israel is not good for us according to... the same demographic, we should notice and start asking why....

 

[DennisPTate]

The CO2 FRAUD is the most anti environmental crime ever.

$20 trillion has been wasted over nothing. Millions of people have spent hours thinking about complete BS like "carbon footprint." CO2 FRAUD is misdiagnosing things like the fires and rejecting solutions like desalination. CO2 is absolutely by far the most horrific crime ever against the actual Earth environment.

Yes, the CO2 fraud is astonishingly intellectually dishonest.

Al Gore's professor gave him the basis for the idea according to the documentary, "How Big Oil Conquered The World."

Al Gore's professor was involved with a group of people who wanted to link the price and supply of oil to the fiat currencies of the large economies. A Carbon Tax accomplishes that but appears on the surface to be going against Big Oil?

Why Big Oil Conquered the World - Top Documentary Films

Environmental advocates have long protested the role that oil companies play in exacerbating the climate change crisis. Their voices have rattled some of the

topdocumentaryfilms.com

 

[Woodznutz]

Based on the current efforts at mitigating climate change I'd say that no one really gives a shit.

 

[Woodznutz]

Or simply to push some other agenda and hiding it under something else.

Look at how many of the promises of "utopia" are pushed under the claim of "saving the climate". And most of them tend to have a rather Marxist bend to them. As in "You do it our way or if we have a chance we will force you to do it our way".

I have an automatic distrust any time somebody tries to promise me "utopia". Because I have learned in reality it is never what they claim. And no matter how it fails, they will always blame it on something else.

As soon as a solution is politicized it's doomed to failure.

 

[MarathonMike]

simple thermodynamics, it takes huge amounts of electrical energy to run a desalination plant ... all to solve a problem that doesn't exist ...

What problem doesn't exist? The scarcity of fresh water in California and the Southwest? Are you kidding? It's a massive problem that continues to get worse, largely because of California's consumption. These guys have an interesting solar powered desalinization design.

https://www.elementalwatermakers.com/solutions/plug-play-solar-desalination/

 

[ReinyDays]

What problem doesn't exist? The scarcity of fresh water in California and the Southwest? Are you kidding? It's a massive problem that continues to get worse, largely because of California's consumption. These guys have an interesting solar powered desalinization design.

https://www.elementalwatermakers.com/solutions/plug-play-solar-desalination/

Do you mean the Phoenix area? ... where population is exploding ... I've lived in the orchards section of the California Central Valley and worked to get irrigation water on the crops ... 40 of every 45 years there's more than enough water for crops, fish and those water whores in LA ... in the dry years, LA and farmers have to cut back ... they know that, even though they always complain about it ...

Read the OP again ... greening the desert to solve climate change doesn't work because climate change isn't a problem ... specifically The Sahara and all of the continent of Australia ... not just Albuquerque ...

 

[MarathonMike]

Do you mean the Phoenix area? ... where population is exploding ... I've lived in the orchards section of the California Central Valley and worked to get irrigation water on the crops ... 40 of every 45 years there's more than enough water for crops, fish and those water whores in LA ... in the dry years, LA and farmers have to cut back ... they know that, even though they always complain about it ...

Read the OP again ... greening the desert to solve climate change doesn't work because climate change isn't a problem ... specifically The Sahara and all of the continent of Australia ... not just Albuquerque ...

Phoenix is definitely a water hog, but their consumption is a literal drop in the bucket compared to California. The original thread covered both topics and I agree with you that "greening the desert" is fraught with problems. But solar powered desalinization makes good sense I'm just not sure if it works on a large scale.

 

[DennisPTate]

Phoenix is definitely a water hog, but their consumption is a literal drop in the bucket compared to California. The original thread covered both topics and I agree with you that "greening the desert" is fraught with problems. But solar powered desalinization makes good sense I'm just not sure if it works on a large scale.

Here is a good example of a very large scale desalination facility in Israel.

About​

The Sorek desalination plant is one of a kind and the largest seawater desalination plant operating with 16’’ elements in a unique vertical arrangement.

It provides potable water for millions of people, comprising 20% of the municipal water demand in Israel, thus greatly contributing to the country’s water system resilience (while minimizing the environmental impact).

In 2018 IDE sold Sorek 1 desalination plant to Dan Capital. The sale was required under a deal agreed by IDE with antitrust (competition) authorities allowing IDE to bid on a BOT tender for a second SWRO desalination plant at Soreq.

• Capacity: 640,000 m³/day
• Technology: Reverse Osmosis (RO)
• Water Source: Seawater
• Contract type: BOT For 25 years
• Usage: Potable Water
• Location: Rishon Le Zion, Israel
• Customer: Israel Water Authority
• Commissioning date: 2013

Sorek I Desalination Plant (Israel) | IDE Tech

The Sorek desalination plant is one of the world's largest SWRO facilities. It sets global standards in seawater reverse osmosis.

ide-tech.com

 

[DennisPTate]

Do you mean the Phoenix area? ... where population is exploding ... I've lived in the orchards section of the California Central Valley and worked to get irrigation water on the crops ... 40 of every 45 years there's more than enough water for crops, fish and those water whores in LA ... in the dry years, LA and farmers have to cut back ... they know that, even though they always complain about it ...

Read the OP again ... greening the desert to solve climate change doesn't work because climate change isn't a problem ... specifically The Sahara and all of the continent of Australia ... not just Albuquerque ...

But if we try to divert the people who are worried about climate change by telling them that climate change is a total myth, that is not accurate because the Arctic is certainly melting. Giving people an alternative theory on what could be done that would directly address the threat of rising ocean levels is a big improvement over any variation on a Carbon Tax.

 

[Mushroom]

The scarcity of fresh water in California and the Southwest?

And that is entirely a problem of overpopulation and nothing else.

California had no issues with water 65 years ago when the population of the state was only around 15 million people. Today around 40 million people live there, and there is simply not enough water to go around. Even though the precipitation levels have not changed in centuries.

 

[DennisPTate]

And that is entirely a problem of overpopulation and nothing else.

California had no issues with water 65 years ago when the population of the state was only around 15 million people. Today around 40 million people live there, and there is simply not enough water to go around. Even though the precipitation levels have not changed in centuries.

A rapid growth in population would tend to cause some problems, but a Sorek type of desalination plant would have provided lots of water for that larger population and would have been very useful for the firefighters.

Sorek I Desalination Plant (Israel) | IDE Tech

The Sorek desalination plant is one of the world's largest SWRO facilities. It sets global standards in seawater reverse osmosis.

ide-tech.com

 

[MarathonMike]

And that is entirely a problem of overpopulation and nothing else.

California had no issues with water 65 years ago when the population of the state was only around 15 million people. Today around 40 million people live there, and there is simply not enough water to go around. Even though the precipitation levels have not changed in centuries.

Yes that and agriculture which consumes nearly half of California's water. They should be doing rain harvesting on a massive scale and they don't even try.

 

[Mushroom]

A rapid growth in population would tend to cause some problems, but a Sorek type of desalination plant would have provided lots of water for that larger population and would have been very useful for the firefighters.

Well, other than destroying the fragile marine ecosystem, sure.

Why are you so interested in destroying fragile ecosystems?

 

[Mushroom]

Yes that and agriculture which consumes nearly half of California's water. They should be doing rain harvesting on a massive scale and they don't even try.

In fact, they are destroying dams and not building new dams. So their ability to capture and sequester rainwater has actually decreased over the years.

Believe it or not, the state of California has removed over 100 dams in the last 25 years. Yet, they have not built a new dam since 1979.

 

[DennisPTate]

Well, other than destroying the fragile marine ecosystem, sure.

Why are you so interested in destroying fragile ecosystems?

Because I am worried about what will happen if the land based Greenland Ice Sheet begins to crack and slide into the North Atlantic rapidly. I am also worried about the relatively rapid collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet due to it being anchored below sea level.

The West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) is the segment of the continental ice sheet that covers West Antarctica, the portion of Antarctica on the side of the Transantarctic Mountains that lies in the Western Hemisphere. It is classified as a marine-based ice sheet, meaning that its bed lies well below sea level and its edges flow into floating ice shelves. The WAIS is bounded by the Ross Ice Shelf, the Ronne Ice Shelf, and outlet glaciers that drain into the Amundsen Sea.
...
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In the long term, the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is likely to disappear due to the warming which has already occurred.<a href="West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a> Paleoclimate evidence suggests that this has already happened during the Eemian period, when the global temperatures were similar to the early 21st century.<a href="West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a><a href="West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a> It is believed that the loss of the ice sheet would take place between 2,000 and 13,000 years in the future,<a href="West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>14<span>]</span></a><a href="West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>15<span>]</span></a> although several centuries of high emissions may shorten this to 500 years.<a href="West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>16<span>]</span></a> 3.3 m (10 ft 10 in) of sea level rise would occur if the ice sheet collapses but leaves ice caps on the mountains behind. Total sea level rise from West Antarctica increases to 4.3 m (14 ft 1 in) if they melt as well,<a href="West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> but this would require a higher level of warmin

West Antarctic Ice Sheet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mushroom]

Because I am worried about what will happen if the land based Greenland Ice Sheet begins to crack and slide into the North Atlantic rapidly.

Then start studying real science, and not the scare stories that some are pushing.

But even then, there is no reason to fear because it needs to melt. Sea levels should be significantly higher, this is a fact. My actual worry is that sea levels are not high enough and ice levels are far to high this late in an interglacial.

 

[MarathonMike]

In fact, they are destroying dams and not building new dams. So their ability to capture and sequester rainwater has actually decreased over the years.

Believe it or not, the state of California has removed over 100 dams in the last 25 years. Yet, they have not built a new dam since 1979.

I was talking about simple capture systems collecting watershed off of roofs. We have a pretty successful program here in So. Arizona where residents harvest tens of millions of gallons per year. At our house we harvest 2500 gallons per one inch of rainfall.

 

[EMH]

Yes, the CO2 fraud is astonishingly intellectually dishonest.

Al Gore's professor gave him the basis for the idea according to the documentary, "How Big Oil Conquered The World."

Al Gore's professor was involved with a group of people who wanted to link the price and supply of oil to the fiat currencies of the large economies. A Carbon Tax accomplishes that but appears on the surface to be going against Big Oil?

Why Big Oil Conquered the World - Top Documentary Films

Environmental advocates have long protested the role that oil companies play in exacerbating the climate change crisis. Their voices have rattled some of the

topdocumentaryfilms.com

The psycho "ecoterrorists" will do whatever is "necessary" to demonize big oil and steal from it in tort court.

They may actually be very close to getting outed for all of that....

 

[EMH]

Because I am worried about what will happen if the land based Greenland Ice Sheet begins to crack and slide into the North Atlantic rapidly. I am also worried about the relatively rapid collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet due to it being anchored below sea level.

There is precisely zero evidence for such fear.

What is an ice core?

WE get data from ice cores because every year the ice on AA and Greenland grows a new layer on top. Every year. Every year, including the BS "interglacials."

One of the reasons why CO2 FRAUD cannot show us any visual evidence of ocean rise is because there is none. There has been a net gain of ice on Earth every year CO2 FRAUD has existed and way before it.

Earth climate change is extremely slow, GLACIAL....