Chemistry Expert: Carbon Dioxide Can’t Cause Global Warming

That IR goes into the oceans, and is absorbed by the oceans. At least >90% is. The oceans reflect very little in the longwave IR band.
Total BULL SHIT.. IR is expelled in the first ten microns of the oceans surface through evaporation. I want to know where you got math skills this fucked up and wrong...
 
Total BULL SHIT.. IR is expelled in the first ten microns of the oceans surface through evaporation.
Meanwhile, back in reality, we can measure the temperature of the ocean skin. To nobody's surprise, we find that it's _not_ constantly boiling away. Billy's claims are just nuts.

---
Studies of the bulk-skin temperature difference (the "skin effect") show that it has a typical daytime value of 0.3 K (Schlussel, 1990) for high latitudes.
---
And just to clarify, the skin is 0.3K _colder_ than the water just below, the exact opposite of what Billy claims.

Please explain how you defeated the thermocline barrier on the surface of the ocean.

Please explain what the "thermocline barrier on the surface of the ocean" is.

This should be hilarious. Billy's kook physics always is.
 
Last edited:
Last time we went over this was a year ago, so let's go over it again.

This is the temperature profile of most spots in the ocean. Note that the vertical scale is sort of logarithmic.

516px-Sstday.png


The bulk of solar energy penetrates deeply and warms the water. Convection causes warmer water to rise, so the ocean temperature gets higher as you get shallower.

However, that trend reverses at the skin layer. The atmosphere is usually colder than the ocean below, so the ocean at the surface loses heat to the cooler atmosphere. That lowers the temperature of the surface.

The amount of heat flowing out the oceans (from both conduction and evaporation) depends on the delta-T across that skin layer. Heat conducts from hot to cold, linearly proportionally to the temperature difference. With more of a temperature gradient, more heat flows out of the oceans. With less of a gradient, less heat flows out.

Enter the additional longwave IR radiation. It heats the skin layer, decreasing the delta-T across the skin layer. That means less heat flows out of the oceans. The IR doesn't heat the deeper ocean directly. It reduces the heat flow out of the deeper ocean, so more heat stays in the deeper ocean, so the IR indirectly warms the deeper ocean.
 
Last time we went over this was a year ago, so let's go over it again.

This is the temperature profile of most spots in the ocean. Note that the vertical scale is sort of logarithmic.

516px-Sstday.png


The bulk of solar energy penetrates deeply and warms the water. Convection causes warmer water to rise, so the ocean temperature gets higher as you get shallower.

However, that trend reverses at the skin layer. The atmosphere is usually colder than the ocean below, so the ocean at the surface loses heat to the cooler atmosphere. That lowers the temperature of the surface.

The amount of heat flowing out the oceans (from both conduction and evaporation) depends on the delta-T across that skin layer. Heat conducts from hot to cold, linearly proportionally to the temperature difference. With more of a temperature gradient, more heat flows out of the oceans. With less of a gradient, less heat flows out.

Enter the additional longwave IR radiation. It heats the skin layer, decreasing the delta-T across the skin layer. That means less heat flows out of the oceans. The IR doesn't heat the deeper ocean directly. It reduces the heat flow out of the deeper ocean, so more heat stays in the deeper ocean, so the IR indirectly warms the deeper ocean.




UV, not IR. The claims made are completely unsupported by actual observations.

IR can't penetrate the skin, thus it CAN'T warm the skin.
 
UV, not IR. The claims made are completely unsupported by actual observations.
Missed the paper in the previous post, did you?

We can and do measure ocean skin temperature. Reality is not kind to your religious beliefs.

IR can't penetrate the skin, thus it CAN'T warm the skin.
And so you go back to your "SUNLIGHT CAN'T WARM A ROCK!" logic. And then you wonder why you're laughed at.
 
Chemistry Expert: Carbon Dioxide Can’t Cause Global Warming

Scarcely a day goes by without us being warned of coastal inundation by rising seas due to global warming.​
Why on earth do we attribute any heating of the oceans to carbon dioxide, when there is a far more obvious culprit, and when such a straightforward examination of the thermodynamics render it impossible.​
Carbon dioxide, we are told, traps heat that has been irradiated by the oceans, and this warms the oceans and melts the polar ice caps. While this seems a plausible proposition at first glance, when one actually examines it closely a major flaw emerges.​
In a nutshell, water takes a lot of energy to heat up, and air doesn’t contain much. In fact, on a volume/volume basis, the ratio of heat capacities is about 3300 to 1. This means that to heat 1 litre of water by 1˚C it would take 3300 litres of air that was 2˚C hotter, or 1 litre of air that was about 3300˚C hotter!​
This shouldn’t surprise anyone. If you ran a cold bath and then tried to heat it by putting a dozen heaters in the room, does anyone believe that the water would ever get hot?​
The problem gets even stickier when you consider the size of the ocean. Basically, there is too much water and not enough air.​
The ocean contains a colossal 1,500,000,000,000,000,000,000 litres of water! To heat it, even by a small amount, takes a staggering amount of energy. To heat it by a mere 1˚C, for example, an astonishing 6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules of energy are required.​
Let’s put this amount of energy in perspective. If we all turned off all our appliances and went and lived in caves, and then devoted every coal, nuclear, gas, hydro, wind and solar power plant to just heating the ocean, it would take a breathtaking 32,000 years to heat the ocean by just this 1˚C!​
In short, our influence on our climate, even if we really tried, is miniscule!​
So it makes sense to ask the question – if the ocean were to be heated by ‘greenhouse warming’ of the atmosphere, how hot would the air have to get? If the entire ocean is heated by 1˚C, how much would the air have to be heated by to contain enough heat to do the job?​
Well, unfortunately for every ton of water there is only a kilogram of air. Taking into account the relative heat capacities and absolute masses, we arrive at the astonishing figure of 4,000˚C.​
That is, if we wanted to heat the entire ocean by 1˚C, and wanted to do it by heating the air above it, we’d have to heat the air to about 4,000˚C hotter than the water.​
And another problem is that air sits on top of water – how would hot air heat deep into the ocean? Even if the surface warmed, the warm water would just sit on top of the cold water.​
Thus, if the ocean were being heated by ‘greenhouse heating’ of the air, we would see a system with enormous thermal lag – for the ocean to be only slightly warmer, the land would have to be substantially warmer, and the air much, much warmer (to create the temperature gradient that would facilitate the transfer of heat from the air to the water).​
Therefore any measurable warmth in the ocean would be accompanied by a huge and obvious anomaly in the air temperatures, and we would not have to bother looking at ocean temperatures at all.​
So if the air doesn’t contain enough energy to heat the oceans or melt the ice caps, what does?​
The earth is tilted on its axis, and this gives us our seasons. When the southern hemisphere is tilted towards the sun, we have more direct sunlight and more of it (longer days). When it is tilted away from the sun, we have less direct sunlight and less of it (shorter days).​
The direct result of this is that in summer it is hot and in winter it is cold. In winter we run the heaters in our cars, and in summer the air conditioners. In winter the polar caps freeze over and in summer 60-70% of them melt (about ten million square kilometres). In summer the water is warmer and winter it is cooler (ask any surfer).​
All of these changes are directly determined by the amount of sunlight that we get. When the clouds clear and bathe us in sunlight, we don’t take off our jumper because of ‘greenhouse heating’ of the atmosphere, but because of the direct heat caused by the sunlight on our body. The sun’s influence is direct, obvious, and instantaneous.​
If the enormous influence of the sun on our climate is so obvious, then, by what act of madness do we look at a variation of a fraction of a percent in any of these variables, and not look to the sun as the cause?​
Why on earth (pun intended) do we attribute any heating of the oceans to carbon dioxide, when there is a far more obvious culprit, and when such a straightforward examination of the thermodynamics render it impossible.​
Article's from a couple of years ago. He makes a point I haven't ever seen discussed:

The atmosphere just can't hold enough heat to warm up the oceans.

Can anyone knowledgeable of thermodynamics point out any flaws in his reasoning?
My, my, some more ridiculous dumb fuckery. You think that the ocean is incapable of being warmed by the sun and the photons that are emitted back to the surface by CO2 in the atmosphere? Where did your chemist get his degree? The Trump University? From the time of Fourier, we have known there is something in the atmosphere that intercepts outgoing heat. Tyndall experimented and told us what that was, and Arrhenius was first to quantify the effect of GHGs on the temperature of the atmosphere. The American Institute of Physics is the largest Scientific Society on Earth, and here is their facts on AGW;

 
I'm not going to use numbers, just keep in mind that the astronomy parts of this tend to use astronomical numbers ...

We get energy from the Sun, and the Earth radiates energy back out into space, in a perfect world this would be joule for joule ... unfortunately, the atmosphere isn't transparent at the wavelengths of light that the Earth radiates at ... mostly due to the presence of water vapor and carbon dioxide ... so some small sliver of this energy flow remains in the atmosphere raising it's temperature ...

Now when the atmosphere's temperature rises, the sea surface will start drawing the energy out and adding to it's own temperature ... until the temperatures are the same again ... and as you pointed out, it takes A LOT of energy to raise the temperature of water ... the good news is that the higher temperatures make the sea surface more buoyant, so the extra energy stays at the surface ... until it conducts down the water column, that takes time ...

I think it's better to look at this in terms of power ... joules per second ... any amount of energy can be had given enough time ... and if all we're talking about is a couple degrees over a hundred years, then our power need not be all that great ... remember we're just heating the ocean surface, so it's easier to keep the atmosphere heated ...

Carbon dioxide doesn't heat the ocean directly, it heats the atmosphere which in turn heats the ocean ...
You are so wrong.

"Ninety percent of global warming is occurring in the ocean, causing the water’s internal heat to increase since modern record-keeping began in 1955, as shown in the upper chart. (The shaded blue region indicates the 95% margin of uncertainty.) This chart shows annual estimates for the first 2,000 meters of ocean depth."


1633917239359.png
 
UV, not IR. The claims made are completely unsupported by actual observations.

IR can't penetrate the skin, thus it CAN'T warm the skin.
And this dotard claims to be a geologist! Apparently he has never put his hand on a piece of basalt on a hot day in the desert. LOL
 
You global warming fools are hilarious. The sun is the only thing powerful enough to increase temps on earth. Just to raise the temp of the ice in Antarctica 1 degree would require over 250,000 nuclear bombs.
 
You global warming fools are hilarious. The sun is the only thing powerful enough to increase temps on earth. Just to raise the temp of the ice in Antarctica 1 degree would require over 250,000 nuclear bombs.
All flap yap without a link to show your source for that. By the way, how much energy to you think the sun delivers to earth in a single day?

"Our solar technologies are still new and increasing in efficiency all the time. So how much power we can get from the sun is one thing, but how much power is available from the sun is another.

At any moment, the sun emits about 3.86 x 1026 watts of energy. So add 24 zeros to the end of that number, and you’ll get an idea of how unimaginably large an amount of energy that is!

Most of that energy goes off into space, but about 1.74 x 1017 watts strikes the earth. (ie: 174,000,000,000,000,000, or 174 quadrillion watts)."

Add enough GHGs to the atmosphere to trap a small percentage of that, and over a few centuries, you have melted the ice in Antarctica.
 
All flap yap without a link to show your source for that. By the way, how much energy to you think the sun delivers to earth in a single day?

"Our solar technologies are still new and increasing in efficiency all the time. So how much power we can get from the sun is one thing, but how much power is available from the sun is another.

At any moment, the sun emits about 3.86 x 1026 watts of energy. So add 24 zeros to the end of that number, and you’ll get an idea of how unimaginably large an amount of energy that is!

Most of that energy goes off into space, but about 1.74 x 1017 watts strikes the earth. (ie: 174,000,000,000,000,000, or 174 quadrillion watts)."

Add enough GHGs to the atmosphere to trap a small percentage of that, and over a few centuries, you have melted the ice in Antarctica.
It's called Algebra. An Algebra teacher and his class calculated this years ago as an exercise, naturally it wasn't aired on CNN so you are unaware. Perhaps you would like to explain to everyone why the Dems solution to so called global warming is massive tax increases hmmm. :itsok:
 
It's called Algebra. An Algebra teacher and his class calculated this years ago as an exercise, naturally it wasn't aired on CNN so you are unaware. Perhaps you would like to explain to everyone why the Dems solution to so called global warming is massive tax increases hmmm. :itsok:
A friend of a cousin of my cousin said so, so I know it is so. LOL You 'Conservatives' always try to pull this shit. How about a link to a credible site?
 
Total BULL SHIT.. IR is expelled in the first ten microns of the oceans surface through evaporation. I want to know where you got math skills this fucked up and wrong...
I suppose you will need to give these dunces a seminar on evaporative cooling. It seems some of these clowns missed that day.
 

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top