Charlottesville Driver May have Been Panicked into Losing Control of His Car

[whutTHEYsay]

bgrouse, post: 17972573

I still see no facts from you about the speed.

The facts are the three videos I cited. The fourth is the one in Post 1.

He never stopped or slowed down after passing by that camera where you admitted your Nazi was not in danger.

I cited the police report that said he was going too fast. They would know.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

bgrouse, post: 17972573

I still see no facts from you about the speed.

The video shows a speed by your NAZI that shows intentional disregard for the saftey if pedestrians in his path.

Now you don't want to discuss safety.

I can't force you to watch a video and see obvious facts.

 

[Montrovant]

I keep hearing this stuff about not slowing down. Do you know he didn't slow down? I asked for his speed throughout the event before and nobody provided it. The only fact we know is that he didn't hit anyone prior to being struck so the entire discussion of the supposed lack of safety is pointless.

I base my statements about him not slowing down on the video and pictures of the incident. From my viewings, the car does not appear to slow down, and the brakes are not applied within about a block of the collision. I'll grant the possibility that he was coasting and slowing down a bit, but it doesn't appear that way to me.
I don't see why a discussion about the way the car was driving prior to being hit by the flag is pointless. The car hit the crowd perhaps 1 second after being hit by the flagpole, without any great increase in visible speed. That is an indication that the driver was already heading to hit the crowd or, at best, driving recklessly and getting ready to accidentally hit the crowd. Why would the drivers actions just prior to the collision not be relevant? It would be just as relevant if he had been braking and suddenly sped up after being hit by the flagpole.

I don't care if the pole had a flag on the end. Putting a flag on the end of a pike doesn't make it safer, either. It's obviously an attempt to bring a weapon to the "protest."

So any flag connected to the pole is an attempt to bring a weapon? That is a pretty specious argument. It's possible that the person wanted to have a weapon and used the flag as an excuse to carry one, but people have carried flags on sticks or poles at rallies and protests many times without using them for any sort of violence. Do you also describe all of the confederate battle flags and black x on a white background carried by the white nationalists as polearms, brought to the protest as weapons?

Or how about something like this, was this a bunch of hippies getting ready to beat in heads?

Was the protester in Charlottesville carrying a pike that he'd put a flag on?

 

[bgrouse]

There's nothing unreasonable about exercising your right to travel down a road

He was not exercising his right to travel down a road. He was violating the due to excessive speed for conditions.

So how fast was he going?

I keep hearing this stuff about not slowing down. Do you know he didn't slow down? I asked for his speed throughout the event before and nobody provided it. The only fact we know is that he didn't hit anyone prior to being struck so the entire discussion of the supposed lack of safety is pointless.

I base my statements about him not slowing down on the video and pictures of the incident. From my viewings, the car does not appear to slow down, and the brakes are not applied within about a block of the collision. I'll grant the possibility that he was coasting and slowing down a bit, but it doesn't appear that way to me.
I don't see why a discussion about the way the car was driving prior to being hit by the flag is pointless. The car hit the crowd perhaps 1 second after being hit by the flagpole, without any great increase in visible speed. That is an indication that the driver was already heading to hit the crowd or, at best, driving recklessly and getting ready to accidentally hit the crowd. Why would the drivers actions just prior to the collision not be relevant? It would be just as relevant if he had been braking and suddenly sped up after being hit by the flagpole.

You have no idea how fast he was going or whether he could have stopped had he not been hit by the polearm.

I don't care if the pole had a flag on the end. Putting a flag on the end of a pike doesn't make it safer, either. It's obviously an attempt to bring a weapon to the "protest."

So any flag connected to the pole is an attempt to bring a weapon?\

No, but this one is.

That is a pretty specious argument. It's possible that the person wanted to have a weapon and used the flag as an excuse to carry one, but people have carried flags on sticks or poles at rallies and protests many times without using them for any sort of violence. Do you also describe all of the confederate battle flags and black x on a white background carried by the white nationalists as polearms, brought to the protest as weapons?

Do they use them as such to try to harm an innocent person?

Or how about something like this, was this a bunch of hippies getting ready to beat in heads?

Was the protester in Charlottesville carrying a pike that he'd put a flag on?

I have no idea how those hippies ended up using them.

 

[hadit]

bgrouse, post: 17971645

Yes, dumbass. Driving down a road is the same as "visible initiates his attack." I "visibly initiate my attack" every time I drive. You win the debate!

Driving down a pedestrian laden side street at a speed unsafe for conditions is reckless driving as a mininum and vehicular homicide manslaughter if one or more is struck and killed. All sorts of violations in between.

If you drive fast toward pedestrians every time you drive you need your license revoked. You are a sicko. Your driver's license is not a police officer's badge to go around sentencing jay walkers to death or dismemberment when they are in your path.

Your Nazi started with reckless operation and endangering pedestrians with no imminent threat to his life at all as you admitted. Your Nazi escalated this confrontation to second degree murder. It may move up to a federal hate crime.

You defend your Nazi by explaining that you speed on side streets when pedestrians are present and in your path every time you drive.

Sane safe and responsible drivers slow down to walking speed thus disengaging from any intent or apoearance of an attack.

I wouldn't admit that if I were you. It shows what a cold heartless inhumane being that you are.

I feel bad for kids that live anywhere near you. I hope you don't kill one the next time you initiate your attack.

When you're driving, you are responsible for the operation of your car. Even if someone leaps out in front of you, you're going to have a hard time convincing a judge or jury there was no way to avoid the collision. There had better be some skid marks, at least.

This whole thing saddens me, because the violence isn't going to stop until everyone is willing to condemn it when it happens. The counter protesters should have never been allowed anywhere near the protesters. That's a failing of the city authorities, because once the two groups of extremists got into proximity, collision was inevitable.


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[Montrovant]

You have no idea how fast he was going or whether he could have stopped had he not been hit by the polearm.

I don't know exactly how fast the car was going, of course. On the other hand, I never claimed to. I've merely estimated, based on the video an photograph evidence, that he was traveling at perhaps 20 mph when he was hit by the flag, and that he was within 15-20 feet of the pedestrians at that time. Taking into account the time it would take for him to react and hit the brakes if he were going to do so, I don't think he could have stopped in time. I don't think I've ever been unclear that these are opinions and estimates.

Let me point out that the Charlottesville police have described it as he was driving at a "high rate of speed" toward the crowd. In addition, the Attorney General of the US has described this as an "evil attack" which fits within the definition of domestic terrorism. It's not as though my opinions on the incident are completely out in left field.
Victim recounts Charlottesville car attack that killed 1, injured 19

No, but this one is.

It continues to be funny the way you complain that other people don't have proof, can't know things for certain, etc.....and yet you make declarative statements like this one. How could you possibly know what the person with the flag intended when he decided to bring that flag? That he used it as a weapon does not mean it was intended as such; if he had taken off a shoe and hit the car with that, would you claim that wearing shoes was his way of trying to sneak a weapon to the protest?

Do they use them as such to try to harm an innocent person?

Again, using something as a weapon doesn't mean that thing was intended to be used as a weapon.

I have no idea how those hippies ended up using them.

See above.

I have not argued that the flag was not used as a weapon. I have argued that calling a flag on a stick or pole a polearm is silly. I have argued that just because a flag is placed on a pole does not make it a polearm. I notice you did not answer my question about whether the various confederate battle flags and black X flags brought to the protests also count as polearms, and if they were also clearly an attempt to bring a weapon.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

What happened in Charlottesville.

James Fields might well walk.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

What happened in Charlottesville.

James Fields might well walk.

Like I said in the beginning. Not "murder." I would get the hell out of there if a mob did that to my car.

 

[dblack]

What happened in Charlottesville.

James Fields might well walk.

If he does, they might just get their race war after all.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

bgrouse, post: 17973030Aa

So how fast was he going?

Too fast. Faster than people walking. Police reported your Nazi traveling south on 4th street at a high rate of speed.

We can see from video your Nazi travelling at a high rate of speed for at least two blocks scattering pedestrians the entire way.

I cant force you to believe the police or your own eyes if you watch the videos, but your insistence on knowing the exact mph is not relevant.

We can all see his intent was to scare, scatter and injure and kill pedestrians for over two blocks.

Those conditions require any driver to slow down to around five mph. My guess he was going over 20.

Crash investigation will tell from the damage to his and the other vehicle the precise Mph.

But you think he was going a proper speed, stopped and accelerated out of fear for his life.

No video evidence supports you fantasy.

He never tried to stop or slow enough to avoid hitting people. You can see it on the faces of the people in his way.

Too fast. That is the answer.


A car going 30 mph travels at 44 feet per second. In the video where you admitted your Nazi was not in danger when he passed the camera I counted 8 seconds from the moment the car passed the camera until someone shouted go go go because your Nazi was backing up.

I looked at a google map and "The Impeccable Pig" restaurant is near where the camera footage was taken. It is approximately 350' from where the camera shot is taken to where your Nazi hit the convertible on Water Street.

So given 8 seconds before backing up, it means at 30 mph your Nazi travelled that 350', hit the crowd and backed up. Perhaps a second or two involved in the collision.

There is no time to stop and decide whether to accelerate into the crowd or backup while in fear for his life. So he didn't stop or slow down unless he was going fifty.

Your scheme to blame the victims is shattered and absolutely unsupported by all the facts and videos.

Give it up.

 

[bgrouse]

You have no idea how fast he was going or whether he could have stopped had he not been hit by the polearm.

I don't know exactly how fast the car was going, of course. On the other hand, I never claimed to. I've merely estimated, based on the video an photograph evidence, that he was traveling at perhaps 20 mph when he was hit by the flag, and that he was within 15-20 feet of the pedestrians at that time. Taking into account the time it would take for him to react and hit the brakes if he were going to do so, I don't think he could have stopped in time. I don't think I've ever been unclear that these are opinions and estimates.

Let me point out that the Charlottesville police have described it as he was driving at a "high rate of speed" toward the crowd. In addition, the Attorney General of the US has described this as an "evil attack" which fits within the definition of domestic terrorism. It's not as though my opinions on the incident are completely out in left field.
Victim recounts Charlottesville car attack that killed 1, injured 19

Is that the "high rate of speed" that was referring to the speed at the time of the crash?

No, but this one is.

It continues to be funny the way you complain that other people don't have proof, can't know things for certain, etc.....and yet you make declarative statements like this one. How could you possibly know what the person with the flag intended when he decided to bring that flag? That he used it as a weapon does not mean it was intended as such; if he had taken off a shoe and hit the car with that, would you claim that wearing shoes was his way of trying to sneak a weapon to the protest?

Do they use them as such to try to harm an innocent person?

Again, using something as a weapon doesn't mean that thing was intended to be used as a weapon.

I have no idea how those hippies ended up using them.

See above.

I have not argued that the flag was not used as a weapon. I have argued that calling a flag on a stick or pole a polearm is silly. I have argued that just because a flag is placed on a pole does not make it a polearm. I notice you did not answer my question about whether the various confederate battle flags and black X flags brought to the protests also count as polearms, and if they were also clearly an attempt to bring a weapon.

I answered it. I said "Do they use them as such to try to harm an innocent person?" It means I don't know without more information.

Anyway, I said before I'm not a mind-reader. No, I don't know what was going through his head anymore than I know what was going through the head of the driver. I'm simply making observations based on the facts that are visible in the evidence, such as the way it was actually used and the general demeanor of the crowd: they were up to no good from the beginning.

Regardless, what does any of this have to do with my use of the word "polearm?" Regardless of the reason he brought it there, he still used it as a weapon. If someone bashed the driver's head open with an iron pipe, would the iron pipe be a weapon? Would it matter when the attacker decided to use the pipe as a weapon, whether 1 second ago or 1 day ago?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

What happened in Charlottesville.

James Fields might well walk.

If he does, they might just get their race war after all.

Facts mean nothing to the left. They want blood. WHITE blood.

 

[Billo_Really]

Why do these communists hide their faces?

They're not communists, asshole.

 

[bgrouse]

bgrouse, post: 17973030Aa

So how fast was he going?

Too fast. Faster than people walking. Police reported your Nazi traveling south on 4th street at a high rate of speed.

"When the crash happened." Is that the same "report?"

We can see from video your Nazi travelling at a high rate of speed for at least two blocks scattering pedestrians the entire way.

I cant force you to believe the police or your own eyes if you watch the videos, but your insistence on knowing the exact mph is not relevant.

We can all see his intent was to scare, scatter and injure and kill pedestrians for over two blocks.

Those conditions require any driver to slow down to around five mph. My guess he was going over 20.

Crash investigation will tell from the damage to his and the other vehicle the precise Mph.

That would be the speed at the time of the crash, after he was trying to escape with his life.

But you think he was going a proper speed, stopped and accelerated out of fear for his life.

No video evidence supports you fantasy.

He never tried to stop or slow enough to avoid hitting people. You can see it on the faces of the people in his way.

Too fast. That is the answer.

No, it wasn't, given that he didn't hit anyone prior to being attacked, dumbass.

A car going 30 mph travels at 44 feet per second. In the video where you admitted your Nazi was not in danger when he passed the camera I counted 8 seconds from the moment the car passed the camera until someone shouted go go go because your Nazi was backing up.

I looked at a google map and "The Impeccable Pig" restaurant is near where the camera footage was taken. It is approximately 350' from where the camera shot is taken to where your Nazi hit the convertible on Water Street.

So given 8 seconds before backing up, it means at 30 mph your Nazi travelled that 350', hit the crowd and backed up. Perhaps a second or two involved in the collision.

There is no time to stop and decide whether to accelerate into the crowd or backup while in fear for his life. So he didn't stop or slow down unless he was going fifty.

Your scheme to blame the victims is shattered and absolutely unsupported by all the facts and videos.

Give it up.

8 seconds? The video starts as soon as the car is passing the guy with the camera and "go go go" is shouted at the 16 second mark.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Tipsycatlover, post: 17974232

James Fields might well walk.

No freakin way. Your narrator on the video subscribes to a theory that because his Nazi didn't hit pedestrians during his 300ft approach to the murderous crash it shows he had no intent to harm protesters.

Your video is in slo-mo to show the guy hitting the Nazi car with his flag. In real speed there is no effect from that contact with the flag. He was not able to stop had flag guy never struck his reckless driving car.

This OP showed the same video except the narrator said it was an African-American hitting the car with a bat. Yep a black guy was at fault here.

Your narrator admits his Nazi was going to fast in his approach but commends him for not hitting people on the way to his big goal. Had someone not turned and saw his Nazi coming they would have been hit and run over.

That narrative is a joke. It is a pathetic argument and hopeless reasoning.

No one speeds through a crowd of people for over the length of a football field and kills one and injures nineteen and walks. This killer marched with the Nazis before killing anti-Nazi protesters.

He sought out counter protestors and killed one. No one else is to blame.

Unless you are as dumb as Trump and believe that too.

 

[Call Sign Chaos]

Irrelevant he had a legal right to traverse that open and public thoroughfare.

He also had the legal responsibility to avoid hitting pedestrians, no matter if they were legally in the road or not.


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They were not pedestrians they were a violent mob intentionally blocking a public and open thoroughfare chanting "whose streets? Our streets!" And he didn't strike anyone until they started attacking his car from behind and blocking his escape from the front.

Do you really believe that?

I have it on ******* video bud.

Um, the "blocking his escape" did not happen after his car was struck by a flag.

The car was going fast enough when it was struck by the flag there is almost no chance he could have stopped before hitting the crowd. If he was already going to be hitting the crowd, trying to say it was only because of his fear for his life after his car was struck by a flag doesn't hold water.

Chanting in the street does not make a "violent mob." Nor does it grant anyone license to hit those people with their car.

His car was blocked from the front and a man was beating his car blocking his path from behind before he struck anyone, its all on tape so save your lies.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Why do these communists hide their faces?

They're not communists, asshole.

Yeah, I'm afraid they are. Also, they are anarchists.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

"When the crash happened." Is that the same "report?"

Yes when the crash happened. What do you think it was? The night before?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

His car was blocked from the front and a man was beating his car blocking his path from behind before he struck anyone, its all on tape so save your lies.

Thats a flat out lie. There was no one behind him. He was going too fast to avoid hitting the crowd in front of him.

 

[Call Sign Chaos]

ANTIFA is against fascism and hatred,

Antifa is a violent terrorist organization just like black lives matter...or should I say black lives splatter. Hey look ma, I'm road kill! And I can't stop laughing.

ANTIFA does not seek out violence.

You're too laughable to take seriously.