Catholicism says they believe in Hell but...

Delta4Embassy

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
25,745
Reaction score
3,032
Points
280
Location
Earth
"However, no cogent reason has been advanced for accepting a metaphorical interpretation in preference to the most natural meaning of the words of Scripture. Hence theologians generally accept the opinion that hell is really within the earth. The Church has decided nothing on this subject; hence we may say hell is a definite place; but where it is, we do not know.

St. Chrysostom reminds us: "We must not ask where hell is, but how we are to escape it" (In Rom., hom. xxxi, n. 5, in P.G., LX, 674). St. Augustine says: "It is my opinion that the nature of hell-fire and the location of hell are known to no man unless the Holy Ghost made it known to him by a special revelation", (City of God XX.16). Elsewhere he expresses the opinion that hell is under the earth (Retract., II, xxiv, n. 2 in P.L., XXXII, 640). St. Gregory the Great wrote: "I do not dare to decide this question. Some thought hell is somewhere on earth; others believe it is under the earth" (Dial., IV, xlii, in P.L., LXXVII, 400; cf. Patuzzi, "De sede inferni", 1763; Gretser, "De subterraneis animarum receptaculis", 1595)."
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Hell


So...Hell's a real physical place. But you admit you have no idea where it is. And you discourage anyone from asking where it is.

Ok. That's great guys. Keep up the good work. Only had 2000 years to dope it out. :)
 

ogibillm

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
1,618
Points
245
i think the point was simply that hell is real, and that it doesn't matter where it is, since the only important thing about it is to avoid it entirely.
 

ogibillm

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
1,618
Points
245
i think the point was simply that hell is real, and that it doesn't matter where it is, since the only important thing about it is to avoid it entirely.
Points
D4E misses them
I wouldn't say that at all. He's done research, found quotes and has supported his opinion, he's just come to a different conclusion than you or i have
 
OP
D

Delta4Embassy

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
25,745
Reaction score
3,032
Points
280
Location
Earth
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
 

hortysir

In Memorial of 47
Joined
Apr 30, 2010
Messages
20,518
Reaction score
4,256
Points
270
Location
Port Charlotte, FL
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
My interpretation is Hades isn't Hell.
Hades translates to grave or pit.
Now the 'lake of fire' is entirely different. That is where people burn "forever".
However, the word used for 'forever' in this case doesn't mean eternal.....only until gone...or ash.
Eternal torment can only happen if one has eternal life. And there's only one path to eternal life.
:thup:
 
OP
D

Delta4Embassy

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
25,745
Reaction score
3,032
Points
280
Location
Earth
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
My interpretation is Hades isn't Hell.
Hades translates to grave or pit.
Now the 'lake of fire' is entirely different. That is where people burn "forever".
However, the word used for 'forever' in this case doesn't mean eternal.....only until gone...or ash.
Eternal torment can only happen if one has eternal life. And there's only one path to eternal life.
:thup:
Hades can't be Hell because Hades comes from Greek mythology which is vastly older than Christianity's Hell. And in that mythology it wasn't a place of eternal punishment for evil people.

Christianity co-opts pre-extant religions and concepts and re-defines them. Judaism too taking the Epic of Gilgamesh which contains a creation story, changing it around a bit and calling it Genesis.
 

ogibillm

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
1,618
Points
245
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
 
OP
D

Delta4Embassy

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
25,745
Reaction score
3,032
Points
280
Location
Earth
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
Worth knowing where it is if basing your life's decisions on the claim you might get sent there has you shooting yourself in the foot as it were out of fear. If it's no where and made up then ya don't have to do any number of religious things. If it is somewhere that it can be proven and confirmed then doing what religions say is a good idea. Only reason to discourage asking basic questions like where is it, is if it's made up and no where.
 

Steven_R

Tommy Vercetti Fan Club
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
4,852
Reaction score
922
Points
245
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
Not for nothing, but those quotes were from a time before Galileo discovered that Jupiter.
 

ogibillm

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
1,618
Points
245
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
Worth knowing where it is if basing your life's decisions on the claim you might get sent there has you shooting yourself in the foot as it were out of fear. If it's no where and made up then ya don't have to do any number of religious things. If it is somewhere that it can be proven and confirmed then doing what religions say is a good idea. Only reason to discourage asking basic questions like where is it, is if it's made up and no where.
and i would argue that my belief in god does not hinge upon having a map to hell, or even if it is a physical place or state of being.
 
OP
D

Delta4Embassy

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
25,745
Reaction score
3,032
Points
280
Location
Earth
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
Worth knowing where it is if basing your life's decisions on the claim you might get sent there has you shooting yourself in the foot as it were out of fear. If it's no where and made up then ya don't have to do any number of religious things. If it is somewhere that it can be proven and confirmed then doing what religions say is a good idea. Only reason to discourage asking basic questions like where is it, is if it's made up and no where.
and i would argue that my belief in god does not hinge upon having a map to hell, or even if it is a physical place or state of being.
As would people who believe in Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster despite not having a body to examine.
 

ogibillm

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
1,618
Points
245
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
Worth knowing where it is if basing your life's decisions on the claim you might get sent there has you shooting yourself in the foot as it were out of fear. If it's no where and made up then ya don't have to do any number of religious things. If it is somewhere that it can be proven and confirmed then doing what religions say is a good idea. Only reason to discourage asking basic questions like where is it, is if it's made up and no where.
and i would argue that my belief in god does not hinge upon having a map to hell, or even if it is a physical place or state of being.
As would people who believe in Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster despite not having a body to examine.
agreed. faith is not provable. it is not logical, or reasonable even.
on that we don't disagree.
 
OP
D

Delta4Embassy

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
25,745
Reaction score
3,032
Points
280
Location
Earth
My conclusion is,

"We made up Hell. As such, we can't say where it is lest technology some day confirms we lied or were wrong. And as a result we're discouraging anyone from so much as asking where the made-up place is."
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
Worth knowing where it is if basing your life's decisions on the claim you might get sent there has you shooting yourself in the foot as it were out of fear. If it's no where and made up then ya don't have to do any number of religious things. If it is somewhere that it can be proven and confirmed then doing what religions say is a good idea. Only reason to discourage asking basic questions like where is it, is if it's made up and no where.
and i would argue that my belief in god does not hinge upon having a map to hell, or even if it is a physical place or state of being.
As would people who believe in Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster despite not having a body to examine.
agreed. faith is not provable. it is not logical, or reasonable even.
on that we don't disagree.
What would you say to my hypothesis most who profess beliefs in a given religion do so simply because most of their community does as well, and that taking a more reasoned counter-position is simply more trouble than it'd be worth?
 

Blackrook

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
18,507
Reaction score
6,441
Points
350
Hell is a state of the soul (separation from God), not a physical location that you can travel to. I'm sure Delta is aware of this.
 

ogibillm

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
14,029
Reaction score
1,618
Points
245
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
Worth knowing where it is if basing your life's decisions on the claim you might get sent there has you shooting yourself in the foot as it were out of fear. If it's no where and made up then ya don't have to do any number of religious things. If it is somewhere that it can be proven and confirmed then doing what religions say is a good idea. Only reason to discourage asking basic questions like where is it, is if it's made up and no where.
and i would argue that my belief in god does not hinge upon having a map to hell, or even if it is a physical place or state of being.
As would people who believe in Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster despite not having a body to examine.
agreed. faith is not provable. it is not logical, or reasonable even.
on that we don't disagree.
What would you say to my hypothesis most who profess beliefs in a given religion do so simply because most of their community does as well, and that taking a more reasoned counter-position is simply more trouble than it'd be worth?
Can't disagree. As critical thinking goes most of us don't challenge our own or our community's values
 

Blackrook

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
18,507
Reaction score
6,441
Points
350
is there any reason to want to know the physical location (if there is one) of hell, or heaven for that matter? as a matter of catholic faith it can be assumed that one or the other will be the residence of every person for eternity, regardless of whether they can point to it on a map during this life.

spiritually then, there is nothing to be gained from knowing the location of hell, and since no man knows it, why spend time on trying to find it when we should all be trying to avoid it entirely?

that's why it's discouraged to be questioned. under ground, above ground, a moon of jupiter, a galaxy far, far, away - spiritually it doesn't matter where hell his.

and the Church has stated that hell is not a physical place, but a spiritual state of being
"To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell.'"
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 12
Worth knowing where it is if basing your life's decisions on the claim you might get sent there has you shooting yourself in the foot as it were out of fear. If it's no where and made up then ya don't have to do any number of religious things. If it is somewhere that it can be proven and confirmed then doing what religions say is a good idea. Only reason to discourage asking basic questions like where is it, is if it's made up and no where.
and i would argue that my belief in god does not hinge upon having a map to hell, or even if it is a physical place or state of being.
As would people who believe in Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster despite not having a body to examine.
agreed. faith is not provable. it is not logical, or reasonable even.
on that we don't disagree.
What would you say to my hypothesis most who profess beliefs in a given religion do so simply because most of their community does as well, and that taking a more reasoned counter-position is simply more trouble than it'd be worth?
I certainly agree that most people follow the faith of their parents, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Faith has many positive character building qualities, and connects people to their communities, and makes me more likely to be moral and law-abiding. Also, people of faith are happier than people who lack faith. Atheists may claim they have a corner on truth, but my opinion is that they are not that happy.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top