Catholic Bishops Oppose Compromise on Birth-Control

[Quantum Windbag]

Duly noted you couldn't answer the question.

If the church can refuse to provide Health coverage for its employees on religious objections, why can't a Catholic Soldier request a discharge from a war that his Pope- remember, the man in the dress Catholics think is talking to God - has called immoral?

What makes you think they cannot? You should look up conscientious objector before you ask stupid questions.

Why can't Catholics refuse to pay their taxes on that basis?

They can.

Because there are laws that prevent that from happening.

There are no laws that prevent people from becoming conscientious objectors, that would be unconstitutional.

As for taxes, they run the government, refusing to pay them means you go to jail. Doesn't mean you cannot refuse to pay them, just means you are going to pay for it.

Legally, the Church doesn't have a leg to stand on, and they know it. Which is why they are trying to get people worked up politically. But since 75% of Catholics think their position is crackers, it's gonna be a short parade.

If they didn't have a leg to stand on why did Obama shift his position? Could it be that you are the one that doesn't actually understand the issue?

Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to for a bit.

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, if it was a law it would have been voted on by Congress, HHS issued this rule without any vote in Congress. Learn civics.

How does the church taking money mean they give up rights? Do you give up your rights when you take money from the government?

What the members of the church do, or don't do, is meaningless. I will not sit by while the government infringes anyone's rights, even yours, even if you think it is a good idea.

I honestly wish you weren't a bigot, doesn't stop me from trying to interact intelligently with you.

the AHA authorized HHS to make rules like this.

I honestly wish you weren't a complete ******* religious moron, trying to justify the Church's stupidity on this issue.

Legally, the Church doesn't have a leg to stand on. If they did, they'd be in court, they wouldn't be out trying to suck up to the Republicans.

 

[del]

Uh, if it was a law it would have been voted on by Congress, HHS issued this rule without any vote in Congress. Learn civics.

How does the church taking money mean they give up rights? Do you give up your rights when you take money from the government?

What the members of the church do, or don't do, is meaningless. I will not sit by while the government infringes anyone's rights, even yours, even if you think it is a good idea.

I honestly wish you weren't a bigot, doesn't stop me from trying to interact intelligently with you.

the AHA authorized HHS to make rules like this.

I honestly wish you weren't a complete ******* religious moron, trying to justify the Church's stupidity on this issue.

Legally, the Church doesn't have a leg to stand on. If they did, they'd be in court, they wouldn't be out trying to suck up to the Republicans.

rules aren't laws, buckwheat

 

[JoeB131]

What makes you think they cannot? You should look up conscientious objector before you ask stupid questions.

Dumbass, the thing is, getting CO status is not as easy as a "Get out of the War Free" card. The standards are actually pretty hard to hit. Which is why you didn't have a mass exodus of Catholics when the Pope declared the war immoral. You actually have to pass a lot of tests to show that you have had a serious change of heart. (When I was in during Gulf War I, I had a soldier who tried to pull this scam, even though we weren't deployed, and found out just how strict the rules are.)

Why can't Catholics refuse to pay their taxes on that basis?

They can.

Okay, I guess being retarded or something, how can they do that AND NOT GO TO JAIL? I have to assume you've never dealt with the IRS.

Legally, the Church doesn't have a leg to stand on, and they know it. Which is why they are trying to get people worked up politically. But since 75% of Catholics think their position is crackers, it's gonna be a short parade.

If they didn't have a leg to stand on why did Obama shift his position? Could it be that you are the one that doesn't actually understand the issue?

Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to for a bit.

Well, you see, Obama really didn't shift his position. He offered the Men in Dresses a fig leaf. The policy is effectively still the same.

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, if it was a law it would have been voted on by Congress, HHS issued this rule without any vote in Congress. Learn civics.

How does the church taking money mean they give up rights? Do you give up your rights when you take money from the government?

What the members of the church do, or don't do, is meaningless. I will not sit by while the government infringes anyone's rights, even yours, even if you think it is a good idea.

I honestly wish you weren't a bigot, doesn't stop me from trying to interact intelligently with you.

the AHA authorized HHS to make rules like this.

I honestly wish you weren't a complete ******* religious moron, trying to justify the Church's stupidity on this issue.

Legally, the Church doesn't have a leg to stand on. If they did, they'd be in court, they wouldn't be out trying to suck up to the Republicans.

rules aren't laws, buckwheat

ooookay, you can keep tellign yourself that, Spanky.

Next time the IRS audits you, try that one.. too funny.

 

[JoeB131]

Any American can apply for conscientious objector status. But why bother? Simply do not volunteer, there is no draft.........

I was specifically referring to the guy who is already in, who maybe signed up after 9/11, and then the Iraq war broke out and his Man in a Dress said it was an immoral war.

Why isn't he immediately entitled to a discharge from his contract?

What's your logic there, Sarge?

The soldier had every right to apply for objector status. I don't know if any did. But it still isn't the subject at hand. But you keep on hating.....

You know as well as I do they don't just give those out.

Conscientious Objection: Fact Sheet · GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling

So I guess some moral objection are more serious than others.

Now I would think that not wanting to kill total strangers would be a bigger deal to a good Christian than whether or not your girlfriend can buy a box of Trojan Ultra thins...

 

[SFC Ollie]

I was specifically referring to the guy who is already in, who maybe signed up after 9/11, and then the Iraq war broke out and his Man in a Dress said it was an immoral war.

Why isn't he immediately entitled to a discharge from his contract?

What's your logic there, Sarge?

The soldier had every right to apply for objector status. I don't know if any did. But it still isn't the subject at hand. But you keep on hating.....

You know as well as I do they don't just give those out.

Conscientious Objection: Fact Sheet · GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling

So I guess some moral objection are more serious than others.

Now I would think that not wanting to kill total strangers would be a bigger deal to a good Christian than whether or not your girlfriend can buy a box of Trojan Ultra thins...

I know the process, I've been involved with it a few times. You seem to either forget or not to know that I served for 22 years on active duty. SFC has a meaning....
And it still has nothing to do with the subject at hand or your stupidity....

 

[Synthaholic]

they saw thru it naturally....and the actual entity that picks up the check, since when has that mattered to the gov.?...we all know who that will be in the end...



* FEBRUARY 11, 2012, 1:17 P.M. ET

Catholic Bishops Oppose Compromise on Birth-Control Insurance


Catholic bishops said Friday night that they would not support the Obama administration's proposed compromise on a controversial rule that requires most employers to fully cover contraception in their workers' health plans.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which had led opposition to the regulation, issued a statement saying that they didn't believe their concerns were addressed by a new policy offered by President Barack Obama on Friday morning to allow religious employers who object to the use of birth control to turn over responsibility for covering it to insurance companies.

Under the new policy, religious employers that don't want to offer contraception could exclude it from their policies. Insurance companies instead would be required to provide access to contraception for plan participants who wanted it, without explicitly charging either the religious employer or worker.

The shift is intended to ensure that women working at religious hospitals, schools and charities who want to use contraception can obtain it in the same way as women who work for secular employers. It also means the cost of providing the coverage for those women is likely to be spread across all policyholders by insurers.

The bishops had earlier expressed cautious optimism about the announcement, saying that it was "a first step in the right direction" but that they would have to study it.

In their later statement, they said they still had "serious moral concerns," noting that the proposal didn't contain provisions for religious employers who self-insure, meaning the employer takes on the underlying risk of covering employees' health care.

The bishops also said that the current structure of the proposal meant that if an employee and insurer agreed to add contraception coverage to a health plan, it would still be financed in the same way as the rest of the coverage offered by the employer.

"These changes require careful moral analysis, and moreover, appear subject to some measure of change. But we note at the outset that the lack of clear protection... is unacceptable and must be corrected," the statement said.

more at-
Catholic Bishops Oppose Obama Compromise on Birth-Control Insurance - WSJ.com

Who's Zoomin' Who? Moving on From "Religious Freedom" Diversion, USCCB Wants to Exempt All Employers From Birth Control Mandate | RH Reality Check

 

[Quantum Windbag]

the AHA authorized HHS to make rules like this.

Then you admit it is not a law, good first step. Trying to think of what will happen when someone comes in and makes a rule you don't like will be a second step. Opposing the ones that you like because you have principles that make you want to defend people you disagree with will make you an adult.

I honestly wish you weren't a complete ******* religious moron, trying to justify the Church's stupidity on this issue.

Is this an example of what makes religious people cry when they talk to you? I will let you in on a secret, those tears you see are them holding back laughter.

Legally, the Church doesn't have a leg to stand on. If they did, they'd be in court, they wouldn't be out trying to suck up to the Republicans.

They are in court, I guess that means you loose.

Alabama Catholic broadcaster EWTN fights federal contraception rule | al.com

 

[JoeB131]

The soldier had every right to apply for objector status. I don't know if any did. But it still isn't the subject at hand. But you keep on hating.....

You know as well as I do they don't just give those out.

Conscientious Objection: Fact Sheet · GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling

So I guess some moral objection are more serious than others.

Now I would think that not wanting to kill total strangers would be a bigger deal to a good Christian than whether or not your girlfriend can buy a box of Trojan Ultra thins...

I know the process, I've been involved with it a few times. You seem to either forget or not to know that I served for 22 years on active duty. SFC has a meaning....
And it still has nothing to do with the subject at hand or your stupidity....

Well, I was an SSG, and yes, it was a long, complicated and stupid process specifically designed to make the person's life difficult.

Which, honestly, it should be. Otherwise you'd have all these people getting trained and none of them would show up for the war.

But by your faultly logic, if the Bishops have a right to say, "I'm not going to insure the lunch lady's birth control pills because the Pope said that was wrong" then Pvt. Snuffy should have the right to say, "Get me out of this chicken shit outfit, the Pope said the war was wrong."

I'm not seeing the difference here.

 

[JoeB131]

They are in court, I guess that means you loose.

Alabama Catholic broadcaster EWTN fights federal contraception rule | al.com

Doesn't matter. they'll lose. Here's why.


Catholics

And make no mistake: health plans that exclude services used only by women constitute a form of discrimination. That’s why in 2000, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruled that employers that cover prescription drugs but do not cover contraception are in violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Such employers have “circumscribed the treatment options available to women, but not to men,” it said. The EEOC’s ruling made no exemptions for religiously affiliated organizations. Indeed, in 2009, responding to a lawsuit, the EEOC ruled that the Catholic college Belmont Abbey discriminated against women when it refused to cover birth control.

Not a leg to stand on. Sorry. I'm sure they'll go through the motions, though.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Dumbass, the thing is, getting CO status is not as easy as a "Get out of the War Free" card. The standards are actually pretty hard to hit. Which is why you didn't have a mass exodus of Catholics when the Pope declared the war immoral. You actually have to pass a lot of tests to show that you have had a serious change of heart. (When I was in during Gulf War I, I had a soldier who tried to pull this scam, even though we weren't deployed, and found out just how strict the rules are.)

The reason you did not see a mass exodus of Catholics from the military is they volunteered and the Pope did not speak Ex Cathedra and threatan any Catholic who participated with excommunication. Any of them that were in before the war, and agreed with the Pope, were free to apply for CO status.

Like I said, learn before you speak so you don't look like an idiot, unless you think looking like an idiot is a good thing.

Okay, I guess being retarded or something, how can they do that AND NOT GO TO JAIL? I have to assume you've never dealt with the IRS.

By making their case in court and convincing a jury they have a right to not pay those taxes.

Next?

Well, you see, Obama really didn't shift his position. He offered the Men in Dresses a fig leaf. The policy is effectively still the same.

Which is why the Bishops didn't buy into the compromise, yet you called them out for agreeing with you and not bowing to Obama.

Amazing hypocrisy you just demonstrated.

 

[GuyPinestra]

They are in court, I guess that means you loose.

Alabama Catholic broadcaster EWTN fights federal contraception rule | al.com

Doesn't matter. they'll lose. Here's why.


Catholics

And make no mistake: health plans that exclude services used only by women constitute a form of discrimination. That’s why in 2000, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruled that employers that cover prescription drugs but do not cover contraception are in violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Such employers have “circumscribed the treatment options available to women, but not to men,” it said. The EEOC’s ruling made no exemptions for religiously affiliated organizations. Indeed, in 2009, responding to a lawsuit, the EEOC ruled that the Catholic college Belmont Abbey discriminated against women when it refused to cover birth control.

Not a leg to stand on. Sorry. I'm sure they'll go through the motions, though.

Hate to break it to you Joe, but the EEOC is NOT a Court, and this WILL wind up in one, with Obama & Co. losing their ASSES!

 

[tinydancer]

Catholic Bishops Oppose Compromise on Birth-Control


Christians have the biggest and longest running scam in history...why on earth would they want to compromise about anything?

Islam is behind. They hang gays. Birth Control. You have to be kidding me. Rape is the right of the husband.

By all means slag away. Whoopsies. Not Christians. You can't slag Christians.

BTW it's really horrid in the Netherlands. I try desperately to flag the likes of you over here and you don't get one moment of how insanely evil it is to LGBT's in the Netherlands but you just keep going on about America.

It's your game I guess.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They are in court, I guess that means you loose.

Alabama Catholic broadcaster EWTN fights federal contraception rule | al.com

Doesn't matter. they'll lose. Here's why.


Catholics

And make no mistake: health plans that exclude services used only by women constitute a form of discrimination. That’s why in 2000, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruled that employers that cover prescription drugs but do not cover contraception are in violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Such employers have “circumscribed the treatment options available to women, but not to men,” it said. The EEOC’s ruling made no exemptions for religiously affiliated organizations. Indeed, in 2009, responding to a lawsuit, the EEOC ruled that the Catholic college Belmont Abbey discriminated against women when it refused to cover birth control.

Not a leg to stand on. Sorry. I'm sure they'll go through the motions, though.

Guess what, genius, that lawsuit is still in court. Just because the government says something does not mean it can be used to justify something else the government says.

By the way, thanks for pointing out another instance in which Catholics are in court and not sucking up to Republicans.

Catholic News Herald - Belmont Abbey's lawsuit continues

 

[Luissa]

Gotta love white men deciding what a woman should have covered on her health insurance. Ten bucks they have no problem covering Viagra. And any woman who says good job to this guy should not be proud. Time catholic women who have taking bc for years should start standing up to these men.
So no, not a good job Bishop. But what can you can you expect? They won't turn in their own when they are molesting children but BC is evil.

 

[tinydancer]

Oh and for true, I am nothing like you brave and gentlemen souls.

I would never try to be. When I watch you battle each other I really do try to duck out of the way.

No matter how we go at each other, I hope you know how much we admire you and admire your service.

I am in wonder of you. Now that being said.....game on sweeties.....

 

[JoeB131]

Dumbass, the thing is, getting CO status is not as easy as a "Get out of the War Free" card. The standards are actually pretty hard to hit. Which is why you didn't have a mass exodus of Catholics when the Pope declared the war immoral. You actually have to pass a lot of tests to show that you have had a serious change of heart. (When I was in during Gulf War I, I had a soldier who tried to pull this scam, even though we weren't deployed, and found out just how strict the rules are.)

The reason you did not see a mass exodus of Catholics from the military is they volunteered and the Pope did not speak Ex Cathedra and threatan any Catholic who participated with excommunication. Any of them that were in before the war, and agreed with the Pope, were free to apply for CO status.

Like I said, learn before you speak so you don't look like an idiot, unless you think looking like an idiot is a good thing.

Wow. that was absolutely retarded.

So essentiallly, the pope didn't really MEAN it when he said the war was immoral? You know, kind of like in WWII, when he just couldn't call Hitler a bad guy, but he was going to denounce George W. Bush. Really. (Yes, I know we are talking about two different Popes here, but I am amazed by the double standard.)

Now I think a war where lots of people died would be a more serious matter than whether someone wore a rubber thinking on his Johnson.

Well, you see, Obama really didn't shift his position. He offered the Men in Dresses a fig leaf. The policy is effectively still the same.

Which is why the Bishops didn't buy into the compromise, yet you called them out for agreeing with you and not bowing to Obama.

Amazing hypocrisy you just demonstrated.

[/QUOTE]

Well, here's how I would have handled it.

I'd have gotten the men in dresses in a room. Then I'd have brought in a FBI agent and said, "This is agent McPherson. If you assholes give me any more shit about contraception, he will be leading a task force into pedophile priests. If any priest in your diosese so much as stared too long at a playground, it ain't going to be pretty."

There are days I wish Obama was what you jokers claim he is...

 

[GuyPinestra]

Gotta love white men deciding what a woman should have covered on her health insurance. Ten bucks they have no problem covering Viagra. And any woman who says good job to this guy should not be proud. Time catholic women who have taking bc for years should start standing up to these men.
So no, not a good job Bishop. But what can you can you expect? They won't turn in their own when they are molesting children but BC is evil.

Thank you for adding another ignorant, racist rant to the thread. You know there are lots of BLACK Bishops in the Catholic Church, right?

 

[Luissa]

The Carholic church is discriminating against women, and of course the repubs are all for it. Yeah, they don't hate women at all. Lol