Capitalism exists to oppress the bottom and protect the top - change my mind

[citygator]

No they aren't.

View attachment 656580

Chief Executives

www.bls.gov

Median CEO makes less than $200K

Your analysis is salary. Not total compensation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Name a better system? I fully support helping the poor and taxing the rich more to pay for improvements in society.

The top 1% pay over 25% of all collected federal income taxes in this country. The top 20% pay 80%. How much higher do you want to tax them?

If the federal tax rate were 0%, the federal government would collect no money. If the federal tax rate were 100%, the federal government would still collect no money because who would be stupid enough to create wealth?

 

[Correll]

Appreciate the comment but it’s really only held by top 10%. 90% of America doesn’t have meaningful capital in savings.

Savings? Saving is generally counted as just savings accounts, which is a dumb place to keep your money.

Lot of people have significant money in mutual funds retirement accounts.

 

[eagle7-31]

We are in a current situation where the workers at the bottom cannot get a raise of share in the economy without those in power taking it back from them.

• The rising wages at the bottom are seen as an evil trend destabilizing the economy
• Company profit margins being higher than ever (basically rising wages at the top) is seen as economically healthy and good
• Companies have raised prices to protect profit margins to historical highs during supply issues taking advantage of shortages in the marketplace is seen as good
• The Uber wealthy continue to accumulate wealth in tough pandemic times and good times (pre and post pandemic) and no one cares
• The answer from those in power will be to raise interest rates, slow the economy to create unemployment hurting the bottom, again
• Tax rates on workers and capital continue to favor capital owners
• Unrealized wealth is only accumulated by the top - hell wealth is only accumulated at the top where top 10% own 89% of the wealth
• CEOs are making a historical multiplier over their workers salary, north of 270X’s

***Mod Comment - Need to provide links to back up statements made as facts. That's in the forum rules.***

I owe my livelihood to capitalism and make top 1% money but it is the systemic exploitation of the bottom through very powerful controls of capital at the top. There needs to be a more balanced playing field.

How can people who work with their way through life get the same breaks as those who own their way through life? No one wants to take shit away… they want a fair shake.

View attachment 656573

Capitalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Start here if you like.

 

[citygator]

Facts are facts. 2 million illegals a year with nothing but the shirts on their backs flock to America for a better life. Which proves your OP is bullshit.

No it doesn’t. Do you think a goal of capitalism should be a large healthy middle class? Ours is shrinking. It’s not capitalism here that is the problem as much as it is the way it’s applied and people are favored.

 

[Flash]

Socialism makes everybody poorer except the Party bosses.

 

[dblack]

Nothing wrong with Capitalism if it is an even playing field.

As long as you get to define "even", eh?

 

[Correll]

No doubt there are taxes. They just aren’t equivalent to money earned laboring. All they money you earned.. if it met holding over a certain time was taxes at much lower rates than if you labored for the money.

I don't understand your point. Please expand.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I’m looking for intelligent discussion. If you don’t have any that’s fine. I’m not impressed with your admission that you don’t have one.

What you are describing is exactly what I pointed out. People are not paid by what you think their labor is worth, people are paid by what an employer considers their labor worth. What you want is an all government system that pays people what you want them to get paid which has never happened in the existence of our country. So why not move if there are already countries to your liking instead of ruining this country?

 

[Correll]

No it doesn’t. Do you think a goal of capitalism should be a large healthy middle class? Ours is shrinking. It’s not capitalism here that is the problem as much as it is the way it’s applied and people are favored.

Capitalism is the method. GOVERNMENT POLICY has goals.


It is up to the people to debate and decide what government policy goals they want.

 

[citygator]

Savings? Saving is generally counted as just savings accounts, which is a dumb place to keep your money.

Lot of people have significant money in mutual funds retirement accounts.

Savings being a general term. The median (the person in the middle) has $5,300 saved. Only 65% have a 401K for retirement sitting at $30k.

 

[dblack]

What you are describing is exactly what I pointed out. People are not paid by what you think their labor is worth, people are paid by what an employer considers their labor worth.

Except for cases of fraud, they're paid the wage they agree to work for. And in agreeing to that wage, they are setting the value of their labor. This is the truest measure. The marxist idea that labor has some kind of intrinsic value is nonsense.

 

[citygator]

What you are describing is exactly what I pointed out. People are not paid by what you think their labor is worth, people are paid by what an employer considers their labor worth. What you want is an all government system that pays people what you want them to get paid which has never happened in the existence of our country. So why not move if there are already countries to your liking instead of ruining this country?

Why can’t the answer be that regardless of how you earn your money it’s treated the same? Whether you build a fence or loan money to someone to build a fence, or own the store that sold the fence pieces your earnings are taxed and treated the same? That’s just a start.

I have more of a right to be here than you.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

We are in a current situation where the workers at the bottom cannot get a raise of share in the economy without those in power taking it back from them.

• The rising wages at the bottom are seen as an evil trend destabilizing the economy
• Company profit margins being higher than ever (basically rising wages at the top) is seen as economically healthy and good
• Companies have raised prices to protect profit margins to historical highs during supply issues taking advantage of shortages in the marketplace is seen as good
• The Uber wealthy continue to accumulate wealth in tough pandemic times and good times (pre and post pandemic) and no one cares
• The answer from those in power will be to raise interest rates, slow the economy to create unemployment hurting the bottom, again
• Tax rates on workers and capital continue to favor capital owners
• Unrealized wealth is only accumulated by the top - hell wealth is only accumulated at the top where top 10% own 89% of the wealth
• CEOs are making a historical multiplier over their workers salary, north of 270X’s

***Mod Comment - Need to provide links to back up statements made as facts. That's in the forum rules.***

I owe my livelihood to capitalism and make top 1% money but it is the systemic exploitation of the bottom through very powerful controls of capital at the top. There needs to be a more balanced playing field.

How can people who work with their way through life get the same breaks as those who own their way through life? No one wants to take shit away… they want a fair shake.

View attachment 656573

And Socialism exists when you can't find baby formula you fucking hypocrite

Capitalism failed you. You on break now from the freeway exit with your will work for food sign?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No it doesn’t. Do you think a goal of capitalism should be a large healthy middle class? Ours is shrinking. It’s not capitalism here that is the problem as much as it is the way it’s applied and people are favored.

The problem I've seen all over USMB is that it's people like you that never participated in capitalism that complain the most. Outside of your house perhaps (if you even have one) you've made no investments in your life. You go to work everyday and spend the money that's paid to you. If it's not enough, complain about people that took their money and made investments and took risks.

Oh, I'm sure you're going to respond telling me you have this and you have that, but I don't believe any one of you. You have nothing because you didn't make the effort to make money on your own. I have wealthy people in my family. I have business owners in my family. None of them ever complain about capitalism because they've done well for themselves with this system.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Do you know what really oppresses the poor? Overloading the unskilled job market with illegals.

Zero sympathy.

 

[citygator]

The top 1% pay over 25% of all collected federal income taxes in this country. The top 20% pay 80%. How much higher do you want to tax them?

If the federal tax rate were 0%, the federal government would collect no money. If the federal tax rate were 100%, the federal government would still collect no money because who would be stupid enough to create wealth?

Well.. since the top 10% own 89% of all wealth it’s still lopsided. But taxes are only a piece. There is still the tax rate differences on how you earn your money and unrealized profits that a laborer can’t hide.

How about better employee protection on employment to move negotiating power to the worker? Improve the workers ability to negotiate higher wages.

 

[Mr Natural]

How about better employee protection on employment to move negotiating power to the worker? Improve the workers ability to negotiate higher wages.

You mean like back in the day when America was great and union membership was strong?

 

[Correll]

Savings being a general term. The median (the person in the middle) has $5,300 saved. Only 65% have a 401K for retirement sitting at $30k.

only 65 %? That is well more than half. Yes, most people need more than they have.

 

[citygator]

And Socialism exists when you can't find baby formula you fucking hypocrite

Capitalism failed you. You on break now from the freeway exit with your will work for food sign?

I have a way better job than you and likely make 10Xs what you did last year. This isn’t envy. It’s a discussion in equity. I worked hard for my job. I don’t want to be at par with those who don’t work hard. I just think the rules favor those in power. We need more balanced rules.