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Canadian health care is not as "universal" as liberals claim

pknopp

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Its the least that a "Christian" nation should do.
You don't make the rules for the nation. That "christian nation" meme is a desperate attempt to virtue signal when you, as a typical liberal, have no virtues.

I am a Christian. I am pro-life. I fully support the 2nd Amendment. I believe we need to balance the budget. I support the electoral college. What makes me a "typical liberal" and are you saying that this is NOT a Christian nation? (not that I expect you to address this)
 

Orangecat

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It's just on the books dude
What does "on the books" mean? Also, what is "it"?
You sell it at cost.
I don't sell anything at cost. That's a child's business model.
You do not need to pay for anything
I like to pay my way in life. Freebies are for losers.
We don't give it away
Who is "we" and what aren't "we" giving away?
It's just cheap by virtue of us being a 300 million deep nation
Again, if you wish to join like-minded people to buy bulk discounted products, go for it. Why would you want to force people who do not need said product to help you pay a lower rate on what you need?
And how every other developed nation on the planet does things.
Didn't your parents ever teach you the old "if all your friend jumped off a bridge" lesson?
None of which could do it as cheaply as us because we're hte largest developed nation on the planet
We don't have socialized medicine because we prioritize quality, innovation, and prompt access.
There are three basic aspects to healthcare:
1. Affordability
2. Quality
3. Universal access
Reality dictates you can only have two of these in any given system.
Socialized medicine covers universal access and affordability (if you don't count the obscene tax rates) at the cost of quality.
Choose wisely.
 

Orangecat

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I am a Christian. I am pro-life. I fully support the 2nd Amendment. I believe we need to balance the budget. I support the electoral college. What makes me a "typical liberal" and are you saying that this is NOT a Christian nation? (not that I expect you to address this)
We aren't a christian nation. We are a nation that was founded on christian values, but we have no national religion. Just because you hold christian beliefs doesn't mean you dictate what the law should be. We vote in political representatives to determine such things.
 

pknopp

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I am a Christian. I am pro-life. I fully support the 2nd Amendment. I believe we need to balance the budget. I support the electoral college. What makes me a "typical liberal" and are you saying that this is NOT a Christian nation? (not that I expect you to address this)
We aren't a christian nation. We are a nation that was founded on christian values, but we have no national religion. Just because you hold christian beliefs doesn't mean you dictate what the law should be. We vote in political representatives to determine such things.

Great........we should do it as it's Christian values.
 

Orangecat

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Great........we should do it as it's Christian values.
I disagree. Get your christian friends together and do it. The government isn't beholden to your interpretation of christian values.
 
OP
Drop Dead Fred

Drop Dead Fred

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yea but we should buy collectively so the bill is cheaper

tha't sthe important bit

Which is why Americans buy drugs from canadians, only 30 million of them and they're getting drugs cheaper than us because they're not retarded. Many of them american invented treatments


Inventing a new drug is expensive.

Manufacturing a drug is cheap.

The reason that a lot of U.S. drugs are cheaper in Canada is because the cheaper Canadian prices don't take into account the cost of inventing those drugs.

Yea so we should subsidize the worlds medical r and d expenses?

what?

retarded


I'm in favor of the U.S. continuing to be the world leader when it comes to inventing new drugs.
 

Juicin

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yea but we should buy collectively so the bill is cheaper

tha't sthe important bit

Which is why Americans buy drugs from canadians, only 30 million of them and they're getting drugs cheaper than us because they're not retarded. Many of them american invented treatments


Inventing a new drug is expensive.

Manufacturing a drug is cheap.

The reason that a lot of U.S. drugs are cheaper in Canada is because the cheaper Canadian prices don't take into account the cost of inventing those drugs.

Yea so we should subsidize the worlds medical r and d expenses?

what?

retarded


I'm in favor of the U.S. continuing to be the world leader when it comes to inventing new drugs.

We're world leaders in inventing everything else

Our funding wont' change that

If doctors awnted to be bankers they'd be bankers, going to school for a decade is not the optimum financial path
 

AZrailwhale

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So you live in Canada then?

Canada has higher health metrics than the US... So "rationed" means all people get healthcare even by you own admission, GOP plan is like Holocaust Healthcare, if you ain't rich you die...
Bullshit. In the US you either have private health insurance, get it from your employer, or if you can’t afford insurance you get it from the government for free. It’s called Medicaid. On Medicaid you are limited to generic medicines, if there is no generic, you are likely out of luck. Doctors that take a Medicaid are limited in numbers so you spend long waits in offices or hospital emergency rooms.
One big reason Canada’s metrics are higher is they don’t have an endless stream of illiterate peasants streaming across their borders who have never had routine medical care.
 

AZrailwhale

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Canada. Maybe. I'm not sure. I would literally have to figure out how much I pay in extra taxes and see if it's more or less than I pay now for Health insurance per month. But you were looking for the answer Canada, so I'll happily give it.

I would note here you CAN pay for your healthcare in Canada. You can go to a doctors office where you pay upfront. I would do that if I could.
According to the article, as well as everything I have heard, going outside the government system is illegal. It says people do go to black market doctors and officials tend to yarn a blind eye. That’s probably because it takes pressure off the official system.
 
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francoHFW

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A single mother of two who dies because she can't see a doctor in a year isn't really helping anything either.
Of course if it's an emergency, they move up duh. This is crap BS from scumbag Big Health conservatives....
 

francoHFW

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Bullshit. In the US you either have private health insurance, get it from your employer, or if you can’t afford insurance you get it from the government for free. It’s called Medicaid. On Medicaid you are limited to generic medicines, if there is no generic, you are likely out of luck. Doctors that take a Medicaid are limited in numbers so you spend long waits in offices or hospital emergency rooms.
One big reason Canada’s metrics are higher is they don’t have an endless stream of illiterate peasants streaming across their borders who have never had routine medical care.
Of course there are quite a few braindead GOP states that don't have Medicaid unless you go on welfare....BRILLIANT!!! Medicaid is fine, no such generic bs except in dupe world, dupe. Pass the 2010 democratic Immigration Bill that started out with an ID card the only solution and stop being a GOP dupe.
 

francoHFW

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According to the article, as well as everything I have heard, going outside the government system is illegal. It says people do go to black market doctors and officials tend to yarn a blind eye. That’s probably because it takes pressure off the official system.
Even with so many people not covered, we pay twice as much or almost than every other modern country. Brilliant GOP system.... Or at least what the GOP always said they wanted when the Democrats tried to pass single payer. Then they weren't even for that, the scumbag bought off swine, change the channel dupe.
 

Dragonlady

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Liberals are always talking about great Canada's "universal" health care is.

Meanwhile, in the real world, these news articles shows that it is not as "universal" as liberals claim.

Just because someone has "coverage" does not mean that they actually get treatment.



Canada’s Private Clinics Surge as Public System Falters

The Cambie Surgery Center, Canada’s most prominent private hospital, may be considered a rogue enterprise.

Accepting money from patients for operations they would otherwise receive free of charge in a public hospital is technically prohibited in this country, even in cases where patients would wait months or even years before receiving treatment.

Dr. Day, 59, says. “This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years.”

Canada remains the only industrialized country that outlaws privately financed purchases of core medical services.

Canada has a national doctor shortage already, with 1.4 million people in the province of Ontario alone without the services of a family doctor.

The median wait time between a referral by a family doctor and an appointment with a specialist has increased to 8.3 weeks… Meanwhile the median wait between an appointment with a specialist and treatment has increased to 9.4 weeks

Average wait times between referral by a family doctor and treatment range from 5.5 weeks for oncology to 40 weeks for orthopedic surgery


Wait times for knee- and hip-replacement surgery at Southwestern Ontario hospitals are among the longest in the province

People who go under the knife to get their knees replaced in Strathroy have waited an average of 671 days for surgery

Stratford is running the second-highest wait in the province for those needing a hip replacement: the average wait there was 364 days.

In London, the region’s largest medical centre, patients waited an average of 307 days to replace a knee and 299 days to replace a hip

Londoner Judy Congdon waited more than a year to have her right knee replaced when her Strathroy surgeon told her he’d have to replace her left hip next. Told last year to expect surgery in September 2017, her date in the operating room was cancelled, and the surgery delayed a second year


Some Canadian mothers forced to give birth in U.S.

SEATTLE – A problem in Canada’s hospitals is sending scores of pregnant women south of the border to have their babies.

Carri Ash of Chilliwack, B.C. was sent to the U.S. to have her baby after her water broke on Sunday, ten weeks ahead of schedule.

“And they came in and said ‘you’re going to Seattle,'” she said.

Ash’s hospital couldn’t handle the high-risk pregnancy. Doctors searched for another hospital bed, but even hospitals in Vancouver, B.C. didn’t have a neo-natal bed.

“So two provinces didn’t have enough room, so I have to go to another country,” said Ash.

Ash was sent to Swedish Medical Center where, nurses told KOMO 4 News, five Canadian women have come to have their babies in the past six weeks. Some were even airlifted at up to $5,000 per flight.

And a woman from Calgary, one of the wealthiest cities in Canada, had to travel to Montana to give birth to her identical quadruplets.

“We always regret when we have to transfer a baby or mother to another jurisdiction for care,” said Canada’s Health Minister George Abbott.

Aidan Nassey was born premature in Canada and developed breathing problems before his mother could even hold him.

“It was terrifying. And he was taken away and that was it,” said Courtney Nassey, his mother.

There wasn’t a hospital in western Canada that could take in Aidan, and a helicopter had to rush them to Seattle.

Vicki Irvine crossed the border to see her daughter, Carri Ash, give birth.

“You can’t even have a baby near home. It’s horrible,” she said.

Irvine and Ash are questioning Canada’s priorities when it comes to health care spending.

“I think it’s ridiculous that we can have the Olympics but not enough beds so I can have a baby,” said Ash.

The family says there is one benefit to their neo-natal nightmare — the newborn will have dual citizenship and, so far, they like what they see on this side of the border.


More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here.

Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care.


when Robert Bouressa, the Premier of Quebec, had to have his potentially lethal skin cancer treated, he quickly beat a path to the United States and paid for treatment at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, Maryland.


Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.


Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams will be sidelined from three to 12 weeks because of heart surgery he'll undergo at an undisclosed location in the United States, acting premier Kathy Dunderdale says.

From the video below:

19:41 A Toronto man who had a hearth attack waits and waits in an emergency room because there are not enough ICU beds to give him the treatment that he needs.

20:15 A young Canadian girl who has seizures does not have a regular pediatrician, and cannot get a bed at a hospital.

20:23 “More than a million Canadians say they can’t find a regular family doctor. Some towns, like this one, hold a lottery. Once a week, the town clerk gets this box out of the closet. Inside are the names of everyone in town who wants a family doctor. She pulls out one slip, and then calls the lucky winner.”

The narrator then goes on to explain that in order to avoid such long waiting times, some patients have gone to private clinics where they spend their own money on health care, which is illegal in Canada. Even though it’s illegal, it’s actually quite common.

21:36 A businessman makes money by helping Canadians travel to the U.S. to get the health care that they can’t get in Canada. One such example was a woman who had a blocked artery that prevented her from being able to digest her food. She was starving to death. She’d lost 50 pounds. Then she hired the businessman to help her, and she traveled to Washington state and got the health care that she needed. The American doctor said that she would have died within a few weeks if she hadn’t gotten treatment. However, the Canadian government considered her care to be “elective.”

22:11 the narrator shows that at veterinary clinics in Canada, which are privately run and privately funded, animals can get medical treatment immediately, without having to wait. All of the latest high tech equipment is available and ready.



ALL of these articles are YEARS old. One is from 2008. The orthopedic surgery article is from 2017.
 

Dragonlady

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A single mother of two who dies because she can't see a doctor in a year isn't really helping anything either.

And that doesn't happen either. The system is triaged. When I had a cancer scare last year, I saw a specialist 24 hours after she got my preliminary tests, and less than 2 weeks after I first saw my GP. She did a biopsy.

When my friend collapsed on the street on December 29th, her husband took her to emergency. They did tests and admitted her immediately - an aggressive form of cancer. She started chemo on January 2nd. The spend the next three days stabilizing her condition, and doing more tests.

If I need to see my GP right away - I call at 9:00 am. They hold a certain number of appointments open each day for emergencies. By 9:05, they're gone, but at 9:00 am, I can get in today. Yes, I had a long wait for my knee replacement surgery, so I started early, and got in line.

Triage means that those who are sickest, are seen first.

But don't come here with links from 2008 and talk about how bad things are in the Canadian medical system.
 

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