Zone1 Can the US Survive an EMP Strike?

[22lcidw]

Let's play the what if game.

What if one of our Trident missile subs did deploy a high altitude burst near or over Russia as retaliation? let's say they inflict the same damage to them as they did to us? Would Putin continue to escalate to MAD? How would our Allies in the region respond to their own infrastructure being damaged by our response?

If Putin detonated a nuke in Ukraine, would you retaliate? Would you put life of citizens in the United States in the chamber of the gun? And in the modern war doctrine that took thousands of years to eliminate but was reinstituted by the globalist ghouls, cities will be destroyed.

 

[toobfreak]

A few decades ago, there were many reports that we could have hardened our electrical grid for 4 billion dollars at the time. But we did not do it.

I can believe that. I know that the IRS still runs on DOS basically, 25 year old technology at least, but they reviewed what it would cost to upgrade the IRS to something like fairly modern Windows platform and the Congress would not spend the money, so here they are, still running DOS, and now they will have 87,000 more people running DOS probably for more money than it would have cost to modernize the agency because that also would have streamlined the agency and made it a lot more efficient to operate.

To have a good portion of the grid working means we can restart industries affected by EMP easier.

I've never sat down and tried to estimate the cost, but I feel that the grid could be hardened, wholly or at least mostly to minimize and control the damage to something at least theoretically manageable. But then I remembered that everything has to go through the federal government now and the federal government is worthless in ever agreeing on anything much less get anything actually DONE other than for themselves.

 

[Vastator]

I've been teaching my kids for some years now. They know how to can, hunt, fish, and garden. But they have never had to build a garden large enough to survive on. Without the ability to put up these foods and keep them usable it is all a moot point. Sadly, we let ourselves be pushed into this untenable position.

While fishing, and hunting are useful skills to have… Most of the game, and fish will be depleted in relatively short order, as everyone who is starving is going to run out and take anything that moves.

 

[hjmick]

For anyone interested, there is a very good work of fiction regarding the effects of an EMP on the U.S.

One Second After by William R. Forstchen

"A post-apocalyptic thriller of the after effects in the United States after a terrifying terrorist attack using electromagnetic pulse weapons.

New York Times best selling author William R. Forstchen now brings us a story which can be all too terrifyingly real...a story in which one man struggles to save his family and his small North Carolina town after America loses a war, in one second, a war that will send America back to the Dark Ages...A war based upon a weapon, an Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP). A weapon that may already be in the hands of our enemies.

Months before publication, One Second After has already been cited on the floor of Congress as a book all Americans should read, a book already being discussed in the corridors of the Pentagon as a truly realistic look at a weapon and its awesome power to destroy the entire United States, literally within one second. It is a weapon that the Wall Street Journal warns could shatter America. In the tradition of On the Beach, Fail Safe and Testament, this book, set in a typical American town, is a dire warning of what might be our future...and our end."

The author:

William R. Forstchen has a Ph.D. from Purdue University with specializations in Military History and the History of Technology. He is a Faculty Fellow and Professor of History at Montreat College.

Amazon product

 

[Billy_Bob]

If Putin detonated a nuke in Ukraine, would you retaliate? Would you put life of citizens in the United States in the chamber of the gun? And in the modern war doctrine that took thousands of years to eliminate but was reinstituted by the globalist ghouls, cities will be destroyed.

And once again the 'what if' scenario. We used to play these games in the Army a lot. There are so many permeators that it boils down to a game of probability. A high stakes Craps game. Determining how we would respond to the use of such a weapon when the man with his finger on the trigger can't even find his way off a stage without help. I am not confident we would act the best way, if there is any best way.

 

[Billy_Bob]

While fishing, and hunting are useful skills to have… Most of the game, and fish will be depleted in relatively short order, as everyone who is starving is going to run out and take anything that moves.

This is true. But without fuels and foods to go any distance the people in less densely populated areas would be more likely to survive, especially if they are prepared and have skills. As another poster pointed out just having those skills is going to become vital in defending what you have from those who would take it.

 

[Billy_Bob]

A few decades ago, there were many reports that we could have hardened our electrical grid for 4 billion dollars at the time. But we did not do it. To have a good portion of the grid working means we can restart industries affected by EMP easier.

Current studies show it would cost nearly a trillion dollars today. It will be no small feat. Each transformer would have to be able to "disconnect" and shunt all poles to ground in milliseconds in order to prevent overload and their destruction. Transmission lines would have to do the same at equal distances to prevent the current becoming so great the line melts (See what a Carrington event did to telegraph lines in 1859). There are lots of things that we must figure out how to protect. How do you disengage a massive rotating generator in milliseconds and then ground it to remove the energy that could destroy it? The physics of what has to happen is not easy.

 

[Billy_Bob]

For anyone interested, there is a very good work of fiction regarding the effects of an EMP on the U.S.

One Second After by William R. Forstchen

"A post-apocalyptic thriller of the after effects in the United States after a terrifying terrorist attack using electromagnetic pulse weapons.

New York Times best selling author William R. Forstchen now brings us a story which can be all too terrifyingly real...a story in which one man struggles to save his family and his small North Carolina town after America loses a war, in one second, a war that will send America back to the Dark Ages...A war based upon a weapon, an Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP). A weapon that may already be in the hands of our enemies.

Months before publication, One Second After has already been cited on the floor of Congress as a book all Americans should read, a book already being discussed in the corridors of the Pentagon as a truly realistic look at a weapon and its awesome power to destroy the entire United States, literally within one second. It is a weapon that the Wall Street Journal warns could shatter America. In the tradition of On the Beach, Fail Safe and Testament, this book, set in a typical American town, is a dire warning of what might be our future...and our end."

The author:

William R. Forstchen has a Ph.D. from Purdue University with specializations in Military History and the History of Technology. He is a Faculty Fellow and Professor of History at Montreat College.

Amazon product

I've read this book. They base their book on a "worst case" scenario and it being a high yield device above the US.

What they do not tell you in that book, the atmospheric conditions over the area will protect some areas. IF it is raining much of the energy will be absorbed by the water in the air and the infrastructure below will be far less affected. An EMP is far more effective in winter than during raining conditions due to the dry air.

One of the reasons we placed emergency generation below ground level was due to the EMP's inability to penetrate the earth. As long as the units are disconnected from external lines, cover by earth, and enclosed, they are safe. Go to any underground fallout shelter and look to see how the generation room is set up. we knew how to protect our equipment 40+ years ago. Thats why the Tooele Army depot stored much of the equipment inside underground bunkers with heavy steel doors and no windows.

At Dugway Proving Grounds they tested EMP protections out in the middle of the desert. They tested military vehicles and many other things. The emitter was the size of a 55-gallon drum. hung above a test pad at 30 feet. The control center was a CONEX can that was grounded and sealed during operations. Essentially a huge faraday cage. When they discharged this unit, it took out fusing in SLC's phone center. Granted it was all copper lines back then, but even this small level burst was very destructive almost 200 miles away.

 

[evenflow1969]

From the Article:



The October Suprise might not come from democrats. If Putin wanted to, he could employ a high atmosphere nuclear detonation, causing an EMP (Electro-Magnetic-Pulse). IT would send most of the US into darkness very quickly. IF he determines the US did in fact sabotage the Nordstream pipelines, this could be a very real possibility.

It would not be a ground strike, but the devastation and death would be all encompassing very quickly from lack of food, water, and basic necessities. The internal strife would be more devastating than a direct attack and leave the ground ripe for attack and subjugation. With China allied with Putin, nothing is off the table.

If Putin deployed this air burst above international waters, it would have very little effect on the surface, but the EMP would be devastating to over half of the US. IF they deployed two, one east and one west over international water 95% of the US would be in total darkness.

Our nukes are insulated from such attacks. We would launch the entire world burns.

 

[WinterBorn]

even worse

the internet will shut down.

and all of us will have to find other hobbies,

Now THAT is a scary proposition.

 

[miketx]

WE didn't have then, what we are dependent on now.

Shoot. Nowadays if a store has a computer problem, they can't do business. and even if they wanted to, half to 3/4 of their staff can't make change and the store no doubt trusts them with the cash anyway..that's if people even had the cash to pay for their purchases.

Have you figured out why the gov't wants to go cashless yet?

Back in the 90s I got off work and stopped a 7-11 to get a 12 pack of beer. I walked in the store and it seemed a little dark but I grabbed the beer and went to the cashier. She said she couldn't sell it to me and I said why? She said the power was out she couldn't figure the tax. I said the beer is 8.50. multiply that by 8.25 and that's the tax. She said she didn't know how to do that. I just gave her a ten and left.

 

[miketx]

Our nukes are insulated from such attacks. We would launch the entire world burns.

You know this how? TV tell you?

 

[Vastator]

You know this how? TV tell you?

They are theoretically insulated... Right up until the silo doors open. Don't think our enemies don't know this...

 

[miketx]

I've read this book. They base their book on a "worst case" scenario and it being a high yield device above the US.

What they do not tell you in that book, the atmospheric conditions over the area will protect some areas. IF it is raining much of the energy will be absorbed by the water in the air and the infrastructure below will be far less affected. An EMP is far more effective in winter than during raining conditions due to the dry air.

One of the reasons we placed emergency generation below ground level was due to the EMP's inability to penetrate the earth. As long as the units are disconnected from external lines, cover by earth, and enclosed, they are safe. Go to any underground fallout shelter and look to see how the generation room is set up. we knew how to protect our equipment 40+ years ago. Thats why the Tooele Army depot stored much of the equipment inside underground bunkers with heavy steel doors and no windows.

At Dugway Proving Grounds they tested EMP protections out in the middle of the desert. They tested military vehicles and many other things. The emitter was the size of a 55-gallon drum. hung above a test pad at 30 feet. The control center was a CONEX can that was grounded and sealed during operations. Essentially a huge faraday cage. When they discharged this unit, it took out fusing in SLC's phone center. Granted it was all copper lines back then, but even this small level burst was very destructive almost 200 miles away.

Yup some stuff will not be affected. Like stuff underground or in concrete parking garages, etc.

 

[evenflow1969]

You know this how? TV tell you?

Lol, you are a retard. So retard we know how to create Faraday cages. We have the largest economy in the world. Our nuclear silos and military bomb shelters have been equipped to handle such a thing. Further more have nuclear subs that can sit at the bottom of the ocean with nuclear warheads many very close to Russia, China, and North Korea. You are the biggest retard on this site. There are cooperation that have built such structures in which I have installed my self. Not for the purpose of nuclear war head defense but for the defense of computer data. You are a retard.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My point was an ICBM entering our territorial waters or air space would create a MAD response. Going beyond our territorial waters, at altitude, would not generate that response but would cripple us. Its playing a game of high states craps... Much as we did during the Cold War...

Yes it would, because we would be able to detect the launch.

You people love to pontificate on nuclear weapons policy while knowing nothing about how it works. Why do you do this?

 

[Calypso Jones]

Obama and biden and clinton wilful made every effort to destroy the greatest military of the modern world. And some of you think we're still that strong. Other nations are training their MEN, WE are developing guidelines for pronouns and trannys in the ranks.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Yes it would, because we would be able to detect the launch.

You people love to pontificate on nuclear weapons policy while knowing nothing about how it works. Why do you do this?

Our tomahawk missiles can carry a 5kt nuclear payload, (otherwise known as a suitcase bomb) which can be launched from the deck of a ship, any fighter aircraft or horizontally from a subs torpedo tubes or vertical launch system on any of our destroyers. IF you really want to get technical it could be placed in a drone, and you would never know it was there. We have capabilities that are not widely known.

Launch detection is for ICBM's and other large payload delivery systems. You want to place all your chickens in that basket? I dont.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Our tomahawk missiles can carry a 5kt nuclear payload, (otherwise known as a suitcase bomb) which can be launched from the deck of a ship, any fighter aircraft or horizontally from a subs torpedo tubes or vertical launch system on any of our destroyers. IF you really want to get technical it could be placed in a drone, and you would never know it was there. We have capabilities that are not widely known.

Launch detection is for ICBM's and other large payload delivery systems. You want to place all your chickens in that basket? I dont.

I had this discussion with another know-nothing on another thread. Do you have any idea how relatively small a 5KT device is? The Hiroshima bomb was about 3 times that size. We don't put nukes on Tomahawks any more for several reasons.

A Tomahawk can NEVER deliver an EMP warhead of any kind. It doesn't fly high enough!

Now, learn from that and stop spreading disinformation, please.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I had this discussion with another know-nothing on another thread. Do you have any idea how relatively small a 5KT device is? The Hiroshima bomb was about 3 times that size. We don't put nukes on Tomahawks any more for several reasons.

A Tomahawk can NEVER deliver an EMP warhead of any kind. It doesn't fly high enough!

Now, learn from that and stop spreading disinformation, please.

I was making a simple comparison on how to deliver a low yield nuke. You are incorrect on the ability of a low yield device being incapable of an EMP strong enough to cause severe damage. Many things have changed over the years and the ability to amplify an EMP pulse or direct its energy, is easily done.

I won't fight about the physics of it. It's safe to say we could deploy one of these devices on a drone and you would never know what took your grid out. You do not have to take out the whole continent, all you have to do is start the chain reaction. The magnetic pulse will do the rest as it propagates.

We war gamed this type of scenario over 40 years ago. Back then we didn't have the miniaturization and shielding tech we do today. Just adding in how much our abilities have changed and how small a 5kt device is, if it were not for the radiation signature giving its position away it could very easily be placed on any aircraft, military or commercial and you would never know what happened.

The shielding necessary to hide this is the problem with its miniaturized size now. You can dismiss it if you like. I don't really care. Do you think Putin and Russia have made these same leaps and bounds in tech? I do. They figured out how to make hypersonic missiles capable of nuclear device delivery.