Can Paris summit save two-state solution?

[ForeverYoung436]

They had the opportunity with Gaza. They have the opportunity right now. Right now! Live in peace. Just do it. No more attacks on Israeli citizens. Starting today. Why is this so hard?

It doesn't matter what they do. They will still get their houses bulldozed to make room for more illegal settlements.

And they should. It is rightfully Israeli land.

Plus, if you attack Israel, you should have your house bulldozed.

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

I think that does happen sometimes.

I haven't seen nearly as much proof of this, as claimed, but I think it does happen now and then.

Israel hasn't been given much reason to work with the Palestinian authority, and Hamas is a terrorist organization at heart.

So naturally it's difficult to get building permits approved. Thus many buildings are built without permit or property right. Which then causes those buildings to be demolished.

However, this is the land of Israel. It is rightfully Israeli land.

The Bible has predicted this for thousands on thousands of years. You need to either be Israeli citizens, and live under Israeli law... or leave. You are not going to win this fight. I promise you.

Forget the Bible. Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed. The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths. By going one step further and occupying the West Bank and blockading Gaza, the Israelis went one step too far. The world has had its fill of the half century brutal occupation and if the two-state solution is not saved then neither will Israel even as a pretended democracy. It is probably too late for the Paris conference to day to do anything.

Why do you call Israel "a pretended democracy"?

 

[Phoenall]

"A summit taking place in Paris on Sunday is expected to try to signal to Israel and the next US president that establishing a Palestinian state is the only path to peace."
Can Paris summit save fading two-state solution? - BBC News
Increasingly, with the increase of Israeli settlements all over the West Bank and the annexation of East Jerusalem, it looks as if the two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict proposed by the United Nations four decades ago has become a pipe dream.

Seventy countries are expected this weekend to reiterate their opposition to Israeli settlements and call for the establishment of a Palestinian state as “the only way” to ensure peace in the region.

According to a draft statement obtained by The Associated Press on Friday, the conference will urge Israel and the Palestinians “to officially restate their commitment to the two-state solution.”

It also will affirm that the international community “will not recognize” changes to Israel’s pre-1967 lines without agreement by both sides.

The draft says that participants will affirm “that a negotiated solution with two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security, is the only way to achieve enduring peace.”
News from The Associated Press

After the conference, French President Hollande intends to meet separately with Benjamin Netanyahu and also with President Mahmoud Abbas.

There is only one objectionable point in the draft statement that the Palestinians could object to and that is the idea of a two-state solution needing to be "negotiated". Experience tells us that talking to the Israelis is pointless as the time is used merely to construct more Israeli settlements in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.

The Israelis will have none of it because it is their position that what they do in the Occupied Territories is no business of other countries and that they prefer to talk directly to the Palestinians ... and talk and build, and talk and build, and talk and build ad infinitum.

Verdict: It takes two to tango. This conference is D.O.A.

It never was a "solution". Why would we try to save something that is not, and never was, a solution?

If you create a new state, that will just create war in the middle east, that Israel will win, and we'll be right back here where we already are.

There is no solution to this conflict. One side must defeat the other side. Israel has to wipe out, and annex the rest of the territory. That is the only solution.

We are where we are.
The cause of the conflict has a lot to do with the immigration of so many European Jews to the Holy Land which was overwhelmingly Arab. There was one Palestine there then but not one state in the community of nations. The establishment of Israel as a Jewish state could only have happened by the dispossession and displacement of the indigenous Arabs, leaving many refugees from Palestine all over the Middle East. Those Arab Palestinians were left with no state of their own and internationally this seemed unjust which is why a state of Palestine in those parts of Palestine which had not become Israel was proposed by the UN decades ago.

If, as you say, there should be only one state and it should be the Jewish state of Israel by means of war and ethnic cleansing, the politicians of only one country might support that, the USA. Others will not and then the war would not be contained to the old Palestinian Mandate. Right now, Israel is doing this with its policy of blockade and occupation. This is judged to be no solution either.

First off "indigenous Arabs" is an oxymoron. Second, the Jews are the only people group that have been in the land of Israel, continuously since the time of David the King.

There is no other group that has lived in that land non-stop for the last 2,000 years.

"Those Arab Palestinians were left with no state of their own"

This statement is entirely false. 100%, this is false.

When Israel was being created, they did everything they could to keep the Arab people in the land. This is a fact. They spread leaflets saying that if they stayed in the land, they would be granted Israeli citizenship, and their property rights, and land ownership would be protected.

To this day, there are Arabs who stayed in the land, and became Israeli citizens, and some are even in the Israeli government, as elected representatives of the people.

List of Arab members of the Knesset - Wikipedia

This is a well known established fact. This myth that the IDF showed up and kicked everyone out, is not only false, but the exact opposite of the truth.

Israel was worried that if all the Arabs left, that the economy would implode. So they were very intent that people stay, and that they would become Israeli citizens, and they would keep their property.

The problem is, the Arabs didn't stay, or didn't agree to the terms.

Take the example of Lydda. When Israeli showed up, many people abandoned their property, or worse, joined the Arab Legionaries.

Read how Israel handled this:

The Israeli government set up a committee to handle the Palestinian Arab refugees and their abandoned property. The committee issued an explicit order that forbade "to destroy, burn or demolish Arab towns and villages, to expel the inhabitants of Arab villages, neighborhoods and towns, or to uproot the Arab population from their place of residence" without having previously received, a specific and direct order from the Minister of Defense. Regulations ordered the sealing off of Arab areas to prevent looting and acts of revenge and stated that captured men were to be treated as POWs with the Red Cross notified. Palestinian Arabs who wished to remain were allowed to do so and the confiscation of their property was prohibited.​

See? They didn't kick these guys out. Israel is not to blame for this.

Here's how the Arabs responded.

On 12 July, at 11:30 hours, two or three Arab Legion armored cars entered the city, led by Lt. Hamadallah al-Abdullah from the Jordanian 1st Brigade. The Arab Legion armored cars opened fire on the Israeli soldiers combing the old city which created the impression that the Jordanians had staged counterattack. The exchange of gunfire led residents and Arab fighters to believe the Legion had arrived in force, and those still armed started firing at the Israelis too. Local militia once again renewed hostilities and an Israeli patrol were set upon by a rioting mob in the market place.
​

So let's recap. The people of Lydda surrendered to the Israelis, and were guaranteed rights and property.

A few Jordanians showed up, and fired some shots at Israelis, and all of a sudden all these people who surrendered, and had their property and rights protected.... started attacking the Israelis.

So of course.... as any military would... as any nation would.... they killed all the combatants, and expelled the rest.

The Arabs expelled themselves. They attacked the Israelis when they could have been protected Israeli citizens with full rights. Instead they started killing people, and got what they deserved for it.

If, as you say, there should be only one state and it should be the Jewish state of Israel by means of war and ethnic cleansing, the politicians of only one country might support that, the USA. Others will not and then the war would not be contained to the old Palestinian Mandate. Right now, Israel is doing this with its policy of blockade and occupation. This is judged to be no solution either.

No, you don't understand my position. I'm not saying what there should, or should not be. That doesn't matter.

You can argue all day long what YOU think, or what other countries think, or what everyone on else in the world thinks.

None of that matters.

You have two groups of people.

One group believes they have a Divine right, handed down through 4,000 years of human history, and a long standing claim, that is over 2,000 years old, that this tiny bit of land is their own land.

Then you have another group, and they are against the first group having any land of their own at all.

Now which group do you think is going to cave in? "If, as you say, there should be only one state and it should be the Jewish state of Israel by means of war..."..... Which group do you think is going to cave in? "But this is judged to not be a solution...." WHICH GROUP DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO CAVE IN?

"But but but!!! Nations around the world will say...."

WHICH GROUP DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO CAVE IN!?!?!?

See a problem there sparky? One group says there can not be an Israeli state. Another group says it's a divine right handed down for thousands of years.

Which group....... which goal..... do you think.... can be met half way?

View attachment 106657

Do you think a two-state solution is going to fix that?

Goal: Elimination of the state of Israel.
Goal: Creation of a complete Israeli nation, with Jerusalem as the capital.

Solution..... here's a Palestine Arab state.

What do you think, has been fixed here?

You fixed nothing. The only thing you have done, is given Palestine a new way to buy guns and weapons, to start a war with Israel, that will drag in the entire middle east, and many other parts of the world.

The only solution is either Israel is eliminated, or the Arabs are removed. There is no co-exist solution. Doesn't matter what your dumb opinion is, or what other nations think. None of that matters. These two people groups have mutually exclusive goals, and one will succeed, and one will fail. There is no 'half-way' hold-hands, and "sing kumbaya around the camp fire" solution.

It's not only a Divine Right issue. For 2,000 years the Jews have been subject to pogroms, blood libels, inquisitions, Crusades, expulsions, massacres, and a Holocaust. They want only one tiny corner of the world to call their own. My own grandparents were forced out of Europe and they couldn't get visas to America at that time (now it's much easier), so they HAD to go to Israel. Ethiopian Jews went there because of famine, Russian Jews when the USSR collapsed, and French Jews now due to anti-Semitism. One dot on the globe.

The dot on the globe is a lot bigger than Gaza and it was already the property of the indigenous Arabs.

Not under international law it wasnt, which is why the Ottomans did not allow them to be a nation

 

[Phoenall]

They had the opportunity with Gaza. They have the opportunity right now. Right now! Live in peace. Just do it. No more attacks on Israeli citizens. Starting today. Why is this so hard?

It doesn't matter what they do. They will still get their houses bulldozed to make room for more illegal settlements.

And they should. It is rightfully Israeli land.

Plus, if you attack Israel, you should have your house bulldozed.

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

I think that does happen sometimes.

I haven't seen nearly as much proof of this, as claimed, but I think it does happen now and then.

Israel hasn't been given much reason to work with the Palestinian authority, and Hamas is a terrorist organization at heart.

So naturally it's difficult to get building permits approved. Thus many buildings are built without permit or property right. Which then causes those buildings to be demolished.

However, this is the land of Israel. It is rightfully Israeli land.

The Bible has predicted this for thousands on thousands of years. You need to either be Israeli citizens, and live under Israeli law... or leave. You are not going to win this fight. I promise you.

Forget the Bible. Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed. The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths. By going one step further and occupying the West Bank and blockading Gaza, the Israelis went one step too far. The world has had its fill of the half century brutal occupation and if the two-state solution is not saved then neither will Israel even as a pretended democracy. It is probably too late for the Paris conference to day to do anything.

When was it granted to them then, a simple enough question as the Ottomans denied them sovereignty of the land

 

[Phoenall]

It doesn't matter what they do. They will still get their houses bulldozed to make room for more illegal settlements.

And they should. It is rightfully Israeli land.

Plus, if you attack Israel, you should have your house bulldozed.

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

I think that does happen sometimes.

I haven't seen nearly as much proof of this, as claimed, but I think it does happen now and then.

Israel hasn't been given much reason to work with the Palestinian authority, and Hamas is a terrorist organization at heart.

So naturally it's difficult to get building permits approved. Thus many buildings are built without permit or property right. Which then causes those buildings to be demolished.

However, this is the land of Israel. It is rightfully Israeli land.

The Bible has predicted this for thousands on thousands of years. You need to either be Israeli citizens, and live under Israeli law... or leave. You are not going to win this fight. I promise you.

Forget the Bible. Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed. The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths. By going one step further and occupying the West Bank and blockading Gaza, the Israelis went one step too far. The world has had its fill of the half century brutal occupation and if the two-state solution is not saved then neither will Israel even as a pretended democracy. It is probably too late for the Paris conference to day to do anything.

Why do you call Israel "a pretended democracy"?

Because they are the latest buzz words on the hate sites

 

[rhodescholar]

Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed.

Sure it has c-nt, just as the Israeli state "forced" the arab musims to slaughter jews 1,000 years ago, and again repeatedly, and the yazidis, coptics, maronites, chaldeans, maneachans, azeri, bahai and all those other groups because of Israel. You're a bottom-feeding, lying pile of shit.

The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths.

Why is that, c-nt? Because of your mythical, conjured "indigenous" arabs? Its scum like you that posts shit like that, who would never make such a laughably false claim in person, because its complete fucking garbage from a lying scumbag.

 

[rhodescholar]

Not under international law it wasnt, which is why the Ottomans did not allow them to be a nation

There were no mass of "indigenous" arab muslims living there, in fact, it was a shithole up to the early 1900s until the jews brought modern farming methods; the truth is that to the arabs, it was a place for those too poor to live elsewhere, like a wasteland. There was a joke for years amongst the Turks that the wealthy ate in Istanbul and their dogs in Jerusalem, because no one wanted to live there. Now the fucking arabs want it because the jews built something there?

This is no different than Lebanon, when the parasite muslims - who've never built a fucking thing for themselves, and simply conquer adjacent civilizations to acquire new technologies/methods, moved en masse and began to make demands once their numbers reached a certain percentage of the population.

The arab muslims have no credibility nor legitimate claim, and should move back to egypt, jordan and syria where they came from.

 

[Eloy]

It doesn't matter what they do. They will still get their houses bulldozed to make room for more illegal settlements.

And they should. It is rightfully Israeli land.

Plus, if you attack Israel, you should have your house bulldozed.

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

I think that does happen sometimes.

I haven't seen nearly as much proof of this, as claimed, but I think it does happen now and then.

Israel hasn't been given much reason to work with the Palestinian authority, and Hamas is a terrorist organization at heart.

So naturally it's difficult to get building permits approved. Thus many buildings are built without permit or property right. Which then causes those buildings to be demolished.

However, this is the land of Israel. It is rightfully Israeli land.

The Bible has predicted this for thousands on thousands of years. You need to either be Israeli citizens, and live under Israeli law... or leave. You are not going to win this fight. I promise you.

Forget the Bible. Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed. The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths. By going one step further and occupying the West Bank and blockading Gaza, the Israelis went one step too far. The world has had its fill of the half century brutal occupation and if the two-state solution is not saved then neither will Israel even as a pretended democracy. It is probably too late for the Paris conference to day to do anything.

Why do you call Israel "a pretended democracy"?

Israel is not a true democracy because 20% of its citizens are treated as 2nd class. You see, in a true democracy mob rule is countered by civil rights for minorities. Even the state of Israel calls itself a "Jewish" country, thereby discriminating against the 20% who are not Jews. Israel is not dissimilar to the sovereign state of Alabama half a century ago.

 

[Indeependent]

And they should. It is rightfully Israeli land.

Plus, if you attack Israel, you should have your house bulldozed.

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

I think that does happen sometimes.

I haven't seen nearly as much proof of this, as claimed, but I think it does happen now and then.

Israel hasn't been given much reason to work with the Palestinian authority, and Hamas is a terrorist organization at heart.

So naturally it's difficult to get building permits approved. Thus many buildings are built without permit or property right. Which then causes those buildings to be demolished.

However, this is the land of Israel. It is rightfully Israeli land.

The Bible has predicted this for thousands on thousands of years. You need to either be Israeli citizens, and live under Israeli law... or leave. You are not going to win this fight. I promise you.

Forget the Bible. Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed. The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths. By going one step further and occupying the West Bank and blockading Gaza, the Israelis went one step too far. The world has had its fill of the half century brutal occupation and if the two-state solution is not saved then neither will Israel even as a pretended democracy. It is probably too late for the Paris conference to day to do anything.

Why do you call Israel "a pretended democracy"?

Israel is not a true democracy because 20% of its citizens are treated as 2nd class. You see, in a true democracy mob rule is countered by civil rights for minorities. Even the state of Israel calls itself a "Jewish" country, thereby discriminating against the 20% who are not Jews. Israel is not dissimilar to the sovereign state of Alabama in half a century ago.

Why don't you move to Syria or Jordan for one year and then tell us how great life is.

 

[montelatici]

Not under international law it wasnt, which is why the Ottomans did not allow them to be a nation

There were no mass of "indigenous" arab muslims living there, in fact, it was a shithole up to the early 1900s until the jews brought modern farming methods; the truth is that to the arabs, it was a place for those too poor to live elsewhere, like a wasteland. There was a joke for years amongst the Turks that the wealthy ate in Istanbul and their dogs in Jerusalem, because no one wanted to live there. Now the fucking arabs want it because the jews built something there?

This is no different than Lebanon, when the parasite muslims - who've never built a fucking thing for themselves, and simply conquer adjacent civilizations to acquire new technologies/methods, moved en masse and began to make demands once their numbers reached a certain percentage of the population.

The arab muslims have no credibility nor legitimate claim, and should move back to egypt, jordan and syria where they came from.

The Muslims and Christians of Palestine are Levantines, not Arabians. They are called Arabs because they adopted the language and some of the culture of the Arabian conquerors over time. Before the Muslim conquest the people of Palestine practiced Christianity (some still do) and spoke Aramaic and Greek. Before Christianity became the state religion and Roman citizens were required to convert in 300 BC or so, they practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Roman and various other religions.

You have absolutely no knowledge of history.

 

[Andylusion]

They had the opportunity with Gaza. They have the opportunity right now. Right now! Live in peace. Just do it. No more attacks on Israeli citizens. Starting today. Why is this so hard?

It doesn't matter what they do. They will still get their houses bulldozed to make room for more illegal settlements.

And they should. It is rightfully Israeli land.

Plus, if you attack Israel, you should have your house bulldozed.

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

I think that does happen sometimes.

I haven't seen nearly as much proof of this, as claimed, but I think it does happen now and then.

Israel hasn't been given much reason to work with the Palestinian authority, and Hamas is a terrorist organization at heart.

So naturally it's difficult to get building permits approved. Thus many buildings are built without permit or property right. Which then causes those buildings to be demolished.

However, this is the land of Israel. It is rightfully Israeli land.

The Bible has predicted this for thousands on thousands of years. You need to either be Israeli citizens, and live under Israeli law... or leave. You are not going to win this fight. I promise you.

Forget the Bible. Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed. The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths. By going one step further and occupying the West Bank and blockading Gaza, the Israelis went one step too far. The world has had its fill of the half century brutal occupation and if the two-state solution is not saved then neither will Israel even as a pretended democracy. It is probably too late for the Paris conference to day to do anything.

And yet everything written down for thousands of years, is coming true in explicit detail.

But ok, lets look beyond that.

By what logic is the land 'rightfully' Arab? They are new to the land. Newer than the Jews who have been in the land for over 3,000 years. In fact they are the only group of people who have been in the land consistently since 1,500 BC.

Moreover, the Arabs have tons of land.

If the Jews don't have a rightful claim to the land, then what exactly would give you a rightful claim?
If Israel isn't the right place for the Jews, then where would you suggest?

It would be hard for me to imagine any other group, when any greater established claim, with a greater body of evidence to support that claim, than the Jews on Israel.

The native American Indians have a far less established claim on America, than the Jews do on Israel, because the native Americans didn't have nearly the amount of recorded and examinable history.

Every time Jewish history says there is a city at X spot, they go and dig, and find a city. Every time the Bible or some other book, says there is a civilization or people group at such and such location, they dig there and find it.

Originally, in 1917 when the move towards a national homeland for the Jews was first pushed, many Arabs around the world agreed with this. After all, a brief history of 'Palestine' shows that barely 300,000 people lived there, the land was desolate and empty, with spare populations. Jerusalem itself was empty of people, comparable to China's now infamous ghost cities.

The Arabs at that time showed the same mentality that left-wingers today have. If it is worthless and ruined, they don't want it. Until someone shows up, and starts making money off it, then they want to control it, regulate it, and tax it.

When Israel was deserted, and turning into desert and swamp land, they didn't have a problem with the Jews coming back to Palestine.

Then when the Jews did start coming back, the economy started to grow, and the land became valuable, suddenly Arabs started migrating to Palestine, and suddenly maybe we don't want these Jews coming here.

There's a reason why the non-jewish population in Israel not only didn't increase, but fell between the 1500s, and the 1880s. The land was ruined (just as the Bible said it would be), and the non-Jews didn't want it.

The Jews on the other hand continued in the land forever.

Additionally, when the Jews started coming back in large numbers, they started working the land, and repairing the infrastructure. Suddenly the Arabs which had been neglecting the land, now that the Jews made it worth something, started flooding into Palestine.

Now after the Jews start making the land worth something again, magically all these Arabs show up, call themselves Palestinians, and claim they have a right to the land?

Sounds like opportunistic thievery to me.

 

[Andylusion]

Not under international law it wasnt, which is why the Ottomans did not allow them to be a nation

There were no mass of "indigenous" arab muslims living there, in fact, it was a shithole up to the early 1900s until the jews brought modern farming methods; the truth is that to the arabs, it was a place for those too poor to live elsewhere, like a wasteland. There was a joke for years amongst the Turks that the wealthy ate in Istanbul and their dogs in Jerusalem, because no one wanted to live there. Now the fucking arabs want it because the jews built something there?

This is no different than Lebanon, when the parasite muslims - who've never built a fucking thing for themselves, and simply conquer adjacent civilizations to acquire new technologies/methods, moved en masse and began to make demands once their numbers reached a certain percentage of the population.

The arab muslims have no credibility nor legitimate claim, and should move back to egypt, jordan and syria where they came from.

The Muslims and Christians of Palestine are Levantines, not Arabians. They are called Arabs because they adopted the language and some of the culture of the Arabian conquerors over time. Before the Muslim conquest the people of Palestine practiced Christianity (some still do) and spoke Aramaic and Greek. Before Christianity became the state religion and Roman citizens were required to convert in 300 BC or so, they practiced Judaism, Samaritanism, Roman and various other religions.

You have absolutely no knowledge of history.

No, I get that. I agree with most of what you said.

The only problem is, they are still not Palestinians. According to the Ottoman census, (if I am remembering this right), more than half of non-jewish population of Palestine were recent immigrants. And only 20% didn't consider themselves immigrants. Meaning the other 30% were not-so-recent immigrants.

Point being that those people are still not "Palestinians". They are Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians, and Iraqis, and others. But they are not Palestinians, and have as little claim to the land, as a Russian showing up and planting a flag in Crimea.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

It doesn't matter what they do. They will still get their houses bulldozed to make room for more illegal settlements.

And they should. It is rightfully Israeli land.

Plus, if you attack Israel, you should have your house bulldozed.

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

I think that does happen sometimes.

I haven't seen nearly as much proof of this, as claimed, but I think it does happen now and then.

Israel hasn't been given much reason to work with the Palestinian authority, and Hamas is a terrorist organization at heart.

So naturally it's difficult to get building permits approved. Thus many buildings are built without permit or property right. Which then causes those buildings to be demolished.

However, this is the land of Israel. It is rightfully Israeli land.

The Bible has predicted this for thousands on thousands of years. You need to either be Israeli citizens, and live under Israeli law... or leave. You are not going to win this fight. I promise you.

Forget the Bible. Establishing a Jewish state in the middle of Arab land has caused all the bloodshed. The land is rightfully Arab regardless of the Biblical myths. By going one step further and occupying the West Bank and blockading Gaza, the Israelis went one step too far. The world has had its fill of the half century brutal occupation and if the two-state solution is not saved then neither will Israel even as a pretended democracy. It is probably too late for the Paris conference to day to do anything.

And yet everything written down for thousands of years, is coming true in explicit detail.

But ok, lets look beyond that.

By what logic is the land 'rightfully' Arab? They are new to the land. Newer than the Jews who have been in the land for over 3,000 years. In fact they are the only group of people who have been in the land consistently since 1,500 BC.

Moreover, the Arabs have tons of land.
View attachment 106779

If the Jews don't have a rightful claim to the land, then what exactly would give you a rightful claim?
If Israel isn't the right place for the Jews, then where would you suggest?

It would be hard for me to imagine any other group, when any greater established claim, with a greater body of evidence to support that claim, than the Jews on Israel.

The native American Indians have a far less established claim on America, than the Jews do on Israel, because the native Americans didn't have nearly the amount of recorded and examinable history.

Every time Jewish history says there is a city at X spot, they go and dig, and find a city. Every time the Bible or some other book, says there is a civilization or people group at such and such location, they dig there and find it.

Originally, in 1917 when the move towards a national homeland for the Jews was first pushed, many Arabs around the world agreed with this. After all, a brief history of 'Palestine' shows that barely 300,000 people lived there, the land was desolate and empty, with spare populations. Jerusalem itself was empty of people, comparable to China's now infamous ghost cities.

The Arabs at that time showed the same mentality that left-wingers today have. If it is worthless and ruined, they don't want it. Until someone shows up, and starts making money off it, then they want to control it, regulate it, and tax it.

When Israel was deserted, and turning into desert and swamp land, they didn't have a problem with the Jews coming back to Palestine.

Then when the Jews did start coming back, the economy started to grow, and the land became valuable, suddenly Arabs started migrating to Palestine, and suddenly maybe we don't want these Jews coming here.

There's a reason why the non-jewish population in Israel not only didn't increase, but fell between the 1500s, and the 1880s. The land was ruined (just as the Bible said it would be), and the non-Jews didn't want it.

The Jews on the other hand continued in the land forever.

Additionally, when the Jews started coming back in large numbers, they started working the land, and repairing the infrastructure. Suddenly the Arabs which had been neglecting the land, now that the Jews made it worth something, started flooding into Palestine.

Now after the Jews start making the land worth something again, magically all these Arabs show up, call themselves Palestinians, and claim they have a right to the land?

Sounds like opportunistic thievery to me.

On the map: Where is Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Somalia, Bahrain, etc.

 

[Shusha]

It doesn't matter what they do. They will still get their houses bulldozed to make room for more illegal settlements.

And that is one of the ideological changes the Arab Muslim Palestinians must make. They are not perpetual victims and it matters very much what they do.

 

[Shusha]

They do not need to attack so called Israel. The root of Israel's settler colonialism is to get rid of the Palestinians and move in illegal Israeli settlers. What the Palestinians do or do not do does not change Israel's standard policy.

More ideology which has to go away. That Israelis (Jews) intend ethnic cleansing and genocide. Or that it is standard policy. Demonstrably not. Israel has 1.2 million Arabs living amongst the Jews there.

 

[Shusha]

So my I assume that you side with the thieves and liars?

Oh look. More ideology which has to go away. That Israelis (Jews) are thieves and liars. That one goes WAY back.

 

[Shusha]

The land is rightfully Arab ...

And the whole idea that there is such a thing as "Arab" land has definitely got to go if we are to solve this problem.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Can it save a 2 state solution? I hope not. Palestainians don't have a legitimate claim to one inch of Israeli land. Kick them out!

 

[Indeependent]

The land is rightfully Arab ...

And the whole idea that there is such a thing as "Arab" land has definitely got to go if we are to solve this problem.

Some people have maxed out their allotted brain cells.

 

[Shusha]

The only problem is, they are still not Palestinians. According to the Ottoman census, (if I am remembering this right), more than half of non-jewish population of Palestine were recent immigrants.

The best illustration of this is an example of two men who immigrated into the territory (now part of Area C) in the late 1920's and early 1930's. They bought plots of land, essentially side-by-side, worked it and passed it down through their children to the present day.

One of these men, and all his descendants, is considered a foreign invader; a settler (now a dirty word); a thief and a liar; some have even called him and his descendants a cancer growing on the land.

The other man, and all his descendants, is considered a "Palestinian" with full and inalienable rights to the land.

Both immigrated from outside the territory, neither had parents or grandparents or great-grandparents living on that land, neither practiced Islam. The only difference between them is that one of these men was a Jew.

 

[Coyote]

It affects the rest of the world

How ... precisely ... does it affect the rest of the world? Any more than any other regional dispute? Why not have 75 nation summits over Ukraine or Kashmir or the Chagos Archipelago?

It is one of the longest running conflicts.

It has been a source of fuel for terrorism.

It's a contributing factor to the instability in the region.