Can Jesus be God if he is not all knowing?

[G.T.]

And if they only behave with virtue because they are afraid of going to hell, then they are behaving without virtue.

Thats cool. Who cares, certainly not me. Bilut pretending nobody chooses behaviors based on a belief in hell and literal scripture is talkng like a fuckin dumbass.

 

[ding]

Sounds a lot like the 6th and final stage of the morality progression where individuals follow the dictates of their conscience without regard for the letter of the law or consequences to themselves.

 

[ding]

God loves free will. He created it.

 

[G.T.]

Preacher time.

 

[ding]

Preacher time.

I’m pretty sure Karl Marx said something similar.

 

[G.T.]

Preacher time.

I’m pretty sure Karl Marx said something similar.

Good, Ding.

 

[ThisIsMe]

And you have eluded to a question that I myself have.

My only response is that God didn't want robots and people forced into serving Him. He wanted people to choose Him, thus free will. Without the tree, and the serpent, and temptation, there would have been no route for people to make a choice.

Again, it is a question that also perplexes me, and I dont have a good answer.

Im not sure what you mean by free...

but if its "do this, or else eternal damnation and torture," I'm not sure we'd classify "freedom" similarly.

Not eternal damnation. Living a life of meaning.

We constantly receive feedback on our choices. None more compelling than when confronted with obstacles, challenges, adversity and catastrophe.

Understanding that everything is connected and trying to learn from our experiences helps us to become better versions of ourselves.

I keep coming back to the beatings will continue until morale improves. Which begs the question are we really free.

The answer is yes because we are allowed to keep repeating the same mistakes.

I was referring to eternal damnation, in my post. Perhaps you are straw-manning again.

Saying to do x or else y is an ultimatum. When one of the choices, x or y, is so grossly unreasonable that its crashing through the bullet-proof glass of being an actual "choice," I question one's understanding of "free" but to each their own opinion.

I know you were referring to that.

It isn’t about that.

It isn’t about the destination. It has never been about the destination.

It is and has always been about the journey. That’s why it was referred to as the way.

I didnt inquire about your 1 man opinion regarding what you think its about.

I was obviously posing a question to folks who believe in eternal damnation at the same time as they believe in free will.

If thats not you, my comment doesnt pertain to you.

You see, that is one area where I need answers. I'm now of the mindset that eternal damnation is not eternal torment.

The Bible talks about destruction. I'm inclined to think that if you die, and are not saved, then you are simply destroyed, as if you never existed, not sent to a hell where you are tormented night and day, burning and writhing in pain.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth might be the pain of knowing that you are about to be eternally separated from God, and you are about to be destroyed from existence. There are some religions who believe this to be the case.

Think of it like this, let's say you had a dog, and this dog was mean. He bit the postman, your neighbors, and everytime you punish him and try to correct him, it keeps doing the same things. Now, are you going to take this dog and throw it into a fire and let it burn and scream in agony, or are you just going to shoot the dog and remove it from existence?

So, having said that, how would anyone think that a loving and merciful God would do that to us, if we wouldn't even do that to a rabid dog?

Fear cant be a motivator for salvation, it has to be a choice of free will to serve God.

I may be wrong, but that is my current thought on it.

 

[G.T.]

Im not sure what you mean by free...

but if its "do this, or else eternal damnation and torture," I'm not sure we'd classify "freedom" similarly.

Not eternal damnation. Living a life of meaning.

We constantly receive feedback on our choices. None more compelling than when confronted with obstacles, challenges, adversity and catastrophe.

Understanding that everything is connected and trying to learn from our experiences helps us to become better versions of ourselves.

I keep coming back to the beatings will continue until morale improves. Which begs the question are we really free.

The answer is yes because we are allowed to keep repeating the same mistakes.

I was referring to eternal damnation, in my post. Perhaps you are straw-manning again.

Saying to do x or else y is an ultimatum. When one of the choices, x or y, is so grossly unreasonable that its crashing through the bullet-proof glass of being an actual "choice," I question one's understanding of "free" but to each their own opinion.

I know you were referring to that.

It isn’t about that.

It isn’t about the destination. It has never been about the destination.

It is and has always been about the journey. That’s why it was referred to as the way.

I didnt inquire about your 1 man opinion regarding what you think its about.

I was obviously posing a question to folks who believe in eternal damnation at the same time as they believe in free will.

If thats not you, my comment doesnt pertain to you.

You see, that is one area where I need answers. I'm now of the mindset that eternal damnation is not eternal torment.

The Bible talks about destruction. I'm inclined to think that if you die, and are not saved, then you are simply destroyed, as if you never existed, not sent to a hell where you are tormented night and day, burning and writhing in pain.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth might be the pain of knowing that you are about to be eternally separated from God, and you are about to be destroyed from existence. There are some religions who believe this to be the case.

Think of it like this, let's say you had a dog, and this dog was mean. He bit the postman, your neighbors, and everytime you punish him and try to correct him, it keeps doing the same things. Now, are you going to take this dog and throw it into a fire and let it burn and scream in agony, or are you just going to shoot the dog and remove it from existence?

So, having said that, how would anyone think that a loving and merciful God would do that to us, if we wouldn't even do that to a rabid dog?

Fear cant be a motivator for salvation, it has to be a choice of free will to serve God.

I may be wrong, but that is my current thought on it.

That's the conundrum of Religion and direct answers.

 

[ding]

And if they only behave with virtue because they are afraid of going to hell, then they are behaving without virtue.

Thats cool. Who cares, certainly not me. Bilut pretending nobody chooses behaviors based on a belief in hell and literal scripture is talkng like a fuckin dumbass.

No, the dumbass would be the one that believes they do when their actions say they don't.

 

[ding]

Not eternal damnation. Living a life of meaning.

We constantly receive feedback on our choices. None more compelling than when confronted with obstacles, challenges, adversity and catastrophe.

Understanding that everything is connected and trying to learn from our experiences helps us to become better versions of ourselves.

I keep coming back to the beatings will continue until morale improves. Which begs the question are we really free.

The answer is yes because we are allowed to keep repeating the same mistakes.

I was referring to eternal damnation, in my post. Perhaps you are straw-manning again.

Saying to do x or else y is an ultimatum. When one of the choices, x or y, is so grossly unreasonable that its crashing through the bullet-proof glass of being an actual "choice," I question one's understanding of "free" but to each their own opinion.

I know you were referring to that.

It isn’t about that.

It isn’t about the destination. It has never been about the destination.

It is and has always been about the journey. That’s why it was referred to as the way.

I didnt inquire about your 1 man opinion regarding what you think its about.

I was obviously posing a question to folks who believe in eternal damnation at the same time as they believe in free will.

If thats not you, my comment doesnt pertain to you.

You see, that is one area where I need answers. I'm now of the mindset that eternal damnation is not eternal torment.

The Bible talks about destruction. I'm inclined to think that if you die, and are not saved, then you are simply destroyed, as if you never existed, not sent to a hell where you are tormented night and day, burning and writhing in pain.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth might be the pain of knowing that you are about to be eternally separated from God, and you are about to be destroyed from existence. There are some religions who believe this to be the case.

Think of it like this, let's say you had a dog, and this dog was mean. He bit the postman, your neighbors, and everytime you punish him and try to correct him, it keeps doing the same things. Now, are you going to take this dog and throw it into a fire and let it burn and scream in agony, or are you just going to shoot the dog and remove it from existence?

So, having said that, how would anyone think that a loving and merciful God would do that to us, if we wouldn't even do that to a rabid dog?

Fear cant be a motivator for salvation, it has to be a choice of free will to serve God.

I may be wrong, but that is my current thought on it.

That's the conundrum of Religion and direct answers.

There's no conundrum. Read the Catechism.

 

[G.T.]

I was referring to eternal damnation, in my post. Perhaps you are straw-manning again.

Saying to do x or else y is an ultimatum. When one of the choices, x or y, is so grossly unreasonable that its crashing through the bullet-proof glass of being an actual "choice," I question one's understanding of "free" but to each their own opinion.

I know you were referring to that.

It isn’t about that.

It isn’t about the destination. It has never been about the destination.

It is and has always been about the journey. That’s why it was referred to as the way.

I didnt inquire about your 1 man opinion regarding what you think its about.

I was obviously posing a question to folks who believe in eternal damnation at the same time as they believe in free will.

If thats not you, my comment doesnt pertain to you.

You see, that is one area where I need answers. I'm now of the mindset that eternal damnation is not eternal torment.

The Bible talks about destruction. I'm inclined to think that if you die, and are not saved, then you are simply destroyed, as if you never existed, not sent to a hell where you are tormented night and day, burning and writhing in pain.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth might be the pain of knowing that you are about to be eternally separated from God, and you are about to be destroyed from existence. There are some religions who believe this to be the case.

Think of it like this, let's say you had a dog, and this dog was mean. He bit the postman, your neighbors, and everytime you punish him and try to correct him, it keeps doing the same things. Now, are you going to take this dog and throw it into a fire and let it burn and scream in agony, or are you just going to shoot the dog and remove it from existence?

So, having said that, how would anyone think that a loving and merciful God would do that to us, if we wouldn't even do that to a rabid dog?

Fear cant be a motivator for salvation, it has to be a choice of free will to serve God.

I may be wrong, but that is my current thought on it.

That's the conundrum of Religion and direct answers.

There's no conundrum. Read the Catechism.

Im not as easily as convinced as you are, ding.

 

[ding]

I know you were referring to that.

It isn’t about that.

It isn’t about the destination. It has never been about the destination.

It is and has always been about the journey. That’s why it was referred to as the way.

I didnt inquire about your 1 man opinion regarding what you think its about.

I was obviously posing a question to folks who believe in eternal damnation at the same time as they believe in free will.

If thats not you, my comment doesnt pertain to you.

You see, that is one area where I need answers. I'm now of the mindset that eternal damnation is not eternal torment.

The Bible talks about destruction. I'm inclined to think that if you die, and are not saved, then you are simply destroyed, as if you never existed, not sent to a hell where you are tormented night and day, burning and writhing in pain.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth might be the pain of knowing that you are about to be eternally separated from God, and you are about to be destroyed from existence. There are some religions who believe this to be the case.

Think of it like this, let's say you had a dog, and this dog was mean. He bit the postman, your neighbors, and everytime you punish him and try to correct him, it keeps doing the same things. Now, are you going to take this dog and throw it into a fire and let it burn and scream in agony, or are you just going to shoot the dog and remove it from existence?

So, having said that, how would anyone think that a loving and merciful God would do that to us, if we wouldn't even do that to a rabid dog?

Fear cant be a motivator for salvation, it has to be a choice of free will to serve God.

I may be wrong, but that is my current thought on it.

That's the conundrum of Religion and direct answers.

There's no conundrum. Read the Catechism.

Im not as easily as convinced as you are, ding.

Convinced about what?

A non-existent conundrum of religion and direct answers? There's a shitload of direct answers in the Catechism.

I think the most annoying thing about militant atheists is their habit of misstating the beliefs of others. It's non-stop strawman building.

 

[G.T.]

I didnt inquire about your 1 man opinion regarding what you think its about.

I was obviously posing a question to folks who believe in eternal damnation at the same time as they believe in free will.

If thats not you, my comment doesnt pertain to you.

You see, that is one area where I need answers. I'm now of the mindset that eternal damnation is not eternal torment.

The Bible talks about destruction. I'm inclined to think that if you die, and are not saved, then you are simply destroyed, as if you never existed, not sent to a hell where you are tormented night and day, burning and writhing in pain.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth might be the pain of knowing that you are about to be eternally separated from God, and you are about to be destroyed from existence. There are some religions who believe this to be the case.

Think of it like this, let's say you had a dog, and this dog was mean. He bit the postman, your neighbors, and everytime you punish him and try to correct him, it keeps doing the same things. Now, are you going to take this dog and throw it into a fire and let it burn and scream in agony, or are you just going to shoot the dog and remove it from existence?

So, having said that, how would anyone think that a loving and merciful God would do that to us, if we wouldn't even do that to a rabid dog?

Fear cant be a motivator for salvation, it has to be a choice of free will to serve God.

I may be wrong, but that is my current thought on it.

That's the conundrum of Religion and direct answers.

There's no conundrum. Read the Catechism.

Im not as easily as convinced as you are, ding.

Convinced about what?

A non-existent conundrum of religion and direct answers? There's a shitload of direct answers in the Catechism.

I think the most annoying thing about militant atheists is their habit of misstating the beliefs of others. It's non-stop strawman building.

Im not really concerned with what you think. Rock on, dude.

 

[ding]

You see, that is one area where I need answers. I'm now of the mindset that eternal damnation is not eternal torment.

The Bible talks about destruction. I'm inclined to think that if you die, and are not saved, then you are simply destroyed, as if you never existed, not sent to a hell where you are tormented night and day, burning and writhing in pain.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth might be the pain of knowing that you are about to be eternally separated from God, and you are about to be destroyed from existence. There are some religions who believe this to be the case.

Think of it like this, let's say you had a dog, and this dog was mean. He bit the postman, your neighbors, and everytime you punish him and try to correct him, it keeps doing the same things. Now, are you going to take this dog and throw it into a fire and let it burn and scream in agony, or are you just going to shoot the dog and remove it from existence?

So, having said that, how would anyone think that a loving and merciful God would do that to us, if we wouldn't even do that to a rabid dog?

Fear cant be a motivator for salvation, it has to be a choice of free will to serve God.

I may be wrong, but that is my current thought on it.

That's the conundrum of Religion and direct answers.

There's no conundrum. Read the Catechism.

Im not as easily as convinced as you are, ding.

Convinced about what?

A non-existent conundrum of religion and direct answers? There's a shitload of direct answers in the Catechism.

I think the most annoying thing about militant atheists is their habit of misstating the beliefs of others. It's non-stop strawman building.

Im not really concerned with what you think. Rock on, dude.

I'm crushed. But my point was more about correcting you, than it was about letting you know what I think.

 

[G.T.]

That's the conundrum of Religion and direct answers.

There's no conundrum. Read the Catechism.

Im not as easily as convinced as you are, ding.

Convinced about what?

A non-existent conundrum of religion and direct answers? There's a shitload of direct answers in the Catechism.

I think the most annoying thing about militant atheists is their habit of misstating the beliefs of others. It's non-stop strawman building.

Im not really concerned with what you think. Rock on, dude.

I'm crushed. But my point was more about correcting you, than it was about letting you know what I think.

But anyway, good for you, little obsessive.

When you've got an honest or intriguing point to make, hopefully your screaming about will let someone know.

 

[ding]

There's no conundrum. Read the Catechism.

Im not as easily as convinced as you are, ding.

Convinced about what?

A non-existent conundrum of religion and direct answers? There's a shitload of direct answers in the Catechism.

I think the most annoying thing about militant atheists is their habit of misstating the beliefs of others. It's non-stop strawman building.

Im not really concerned with what you think. Rock on, dude.

I'm crushed. But my point was more about correcting you, than it was about letting you know what I think.

But anyway, good for you, little obsessive.

When you've got an honest or intriguing point to make, hopefully your screaming about will let someone know.

No. than.

Anytime you want the crown, let me know. We can have a 1v1 in the bull ring.

 

[G.T.]

Im not as easily as convinced as you are, ding.

Convinced about what?

A non-existent conundrum of religion and direct answers? There's a shitload of direct answers in the Catechism.

I think the most annoying thing about militant atheists is their habit of misstating the beliefs of others. It's non-stop strawman building.

Im not really concerned with what you think. Rock on, dude.

I'm crushed. But my point was more about correcting you, than it was about letting you know what I think.

But anyway, good for you, little obsessive.

When you've got an honest or intriguing point to make, hopefully your screaming about will let someone know.

No. than.

Anytime you want the crown, let me know. We can have a 1v1 in the bull ring.

Glory on the internet is up to your kind, ding.

 

[ding]

Convinced about what?

A non-existent conundrum of religion and direct answers? There's a shitload of direct answers in the Catechism.

I think the most annoying thing about militant atheists is their habit of misstating the beliefs of others. It's non-stop strawman building.

Im not really concerned with what you think. Rock on, dude.

I'm crushed. But my point was more about correcting you, than it was about letting you know what I think.

But anyway, good for you, little obsessive.

When you've got an honest or intriguing point to make, hopefully your screaming about will let someone know.

No. than.

Anytime you want the crown, let me know. We can have a 1v1 in the bull ring.

Glory on the internet is up to your kind, ding.

Just trying to establish that you are all fur coat and no knickers, GT.

 

[MaryL]

Can Jesus be God if he is not all knowing?

For the Trinity concept to work, Jesus as well as the Father and Holy Ghost would all have to be all knowing and equal in all ways.

A number of times Jesus says he does not know what the Father knows. That and if Jesus was God, who did he pray to as a God does not pray to himself.

For those two reasons and more, especially his poor moral tenets, Jesus cannot be God. I see his worst moral tenets as being his no divorce policy and substitutionary punishment policy. This link speaks to other moral deficiencies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfGRN4HVrQ&t=2s

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

Jesus knew he was immortal, if we stick to the narrative of the story. So what was the big sacrifice here? So what is the point of Christianity? God created totally arbitrary situation to sacrifice a immortal offspring to some how make you think pointless suffering is necessary ...I am lost here.

 

[G.T.]

Im not really concerned with what you think. Rock on, dude.

I'm crushed. But my point was more about correcting you, than it was about letting you know what I think.

But anyway, good for you, little obsessive.

When you've got an honest or intriguing point to make, hopefully your screaming about will let someone know.

No. than.

Anytime you want the crown, let me know. We can have a 1v1 in the bull ring.

Glory on the internet is up to your kind, ding.

Just trying to establish that you are all fur coat and no knickers, GT.

Thats good dude.