Calling Out Blues Man: The First Cause must be Eternal

[Blues Man]

What are your conditions for something to be considered the first cause of existence?

Have I ever claimed there is a causa sui?

 

[ding]

I never claimed to know have I?

I said we are arguing the unknowable but you won't accept.

If you say there is a causa sui outside of this universe then you first have to prove there is actually an outside of this universe and have you done that?

The definition of first cause is an ultimate cause of all events which does not have a cause itself.

Based on that definition, does that mean anything could come before it?

 

[Blues Man]

The definition of first cause is an ultimate cause of all events which does not have a cause itself.

Based on that definition, does that mean anything could come before it?

And we are back at the start.

again.

I have to agree that there is only one causa sui. I don't know that is true and neither do you.

 

[ding]

And we are back at the start.

again.

I have to agree that there is only one causa sui. I don't know that is true and neither do you.

If you can't win then don't play. Which is exactly what you have chosen to do.

I have to say that I am pretty happy how this has played out. The point of this exercise is to show exactly how unreasonable and disingenuous you are. And I have proven that with this exchange.

 

[Blues Man]

If you can't win then don't play. Which is exactly what you have chosen to do.

I have to say that I am pretty happy how this has played out. The point of this exercise is to show exactly how unreasonable and disingenuous you are. And I have proven that with this exchange.

See there it is you have to win.

You have to be right so you set up a tautology.

We cannot know what we cannot know.

You do not know that there is a first cause of this universe you just make up a condition to your argument that there MUST be one.

it is up to you to prove it and it does not fall on me to disprove an idea you made up.

We both know this is your argument for god and you won't say it.

It's the unmoved mover argument
It's Aquinas's prime cause argument that god exists.

You've couched this same argument in different words.

The universe came from nothing or no thing so it had to come from "spirit" which isn't a thing.

You refuse to accept that fact that IF there is a prime cause that that prime cause does not have to be unchanging and eternal.

That prime cause might have ceased to exist after it's very first move.

 

[katsteve2012]

Closed as requested by participant.