Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[Jarhead]

I will say it again...

The issue is not why we are not paying folks a living wage for non skilled jobs.

The issue is why are those who need a living wage taking non skilled jobs.

30 years ago, non skilled jobs were for 16-18 year olds.....high school students looking for extra cash.

 

[kiwiman127]

View attachment 38024

[


"Hate is not a Christian value"-Redfish
Actually the Bible states that hate is equivalent to murder. John 1 3:15.
Reading most of the threads/posts/signatures on USMB, indicates we have very, very few true Christians on board here. but we do have a ton of fake Christians.

I don't think Jesus was guaranteed a minimum wage when He worked as a carpenter. Minimum wage is an invention of confused stupid ass bureaucrats.

Remember that greed and thievery are also sins and anybody that elects Liberal politicians to use the government to steal money on their behalf would not meet the definition of Christian values.

I am not liberal nor am I liberal conservative, what I am is Middle Class.
Regarding the minimum wage, I think it's a good idea as it sets a floor for wages.
In this country, we obviously have a greed issue.
The US for decades had the most prosperous Middle Class in the world, but the US middle class has lost ground to other developed nations. Canada now has the world's most prosperous middle class in the world and other nations are set to also pass the US's middle class. For example, since 2000, Canada's middle class saw a 19.7% increase in the median income, so did Britain's, while Ireland's saw 16.2%, the Netherlands 13.9%, the US saw 6.3%. Why?
Regarding upward mobility, America has fallen behind Europe.
"Economic mobility is becoming a more prominent issue in the 2012 Republican presidential race, and will likely be widely discussed in the general election. The GOP’s remaining top-tier candidates — Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich — have all sounded the alarm about American decline, promising to restore the “American Dream” and make the pursuit of happiness seem like more of a worthwhile endeavor (as Romney as consistently hammered on about recently). But what’s shocking is that rather than focusing on the American Dream these days, politicians and academics seem to be talking more about the European Dream."
The Loss of Upward Mobility in the U.S. TIME.com
Now back to the minimum wage, do you realize that raising the minimum wage helps the middle class, more so than those below the poverty line?
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
CNSNews.com) – Three times as many workers from middle-class families would benefit from President Obama's proposal to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $10.10 an hour as those living in households below the federal poverty line, according to a new study.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor CNS News
If the conservative Cato Institute thinks this, why would any middle class conservative deny this?
Over three decades of flat wages (in Real Dollars/constant dollars), it's no wonder why the American Middle Class is in such trouble.
Having a steadily weakening middle class hurts the US economy. As the graph below shows, as the middle class has weakened, recession have taken longer to recover. Is it all just a coincidence? Now that's doubtful.View attachment 38017
Someone is making a killing keeping wages flat as profits have hit record highs, yet wages remain flat. Why don't folks take off their ideological hats and stop to think for themselves and their own future is beyond me.

What helps the middle class is a free market for labor and less government restrictions because then business can prosper and that will always drive wages up.

Because this country has been leaning more towards the Left the Middle Class has suffered. Since Obama has took over average family income has declined.

Profits have hit record levels and wages have been flat long before Obama. They have been flat under both Democratic and Republican leadership.
How about thinking without trying to play partisan politics. In this case, both the right and left are guilty as real facts show.
[/ATTACH] View attachment 38021

I suggest you understand studies before you cite them.

During that 60 year span, those profits, on the most part were reinvested into R and D and expansion, allowing for the employment of millions of people....opportunities that allowed many of them to build the capital to go out on their own....

Sure, the business owners reaped the financial rewards...and the rest of us reaped the rewards of long term opportunity...and others reaped the rewards of our success.....and that is how it works.

Know the basis of a study before citing it.

Keep in mind that during a portion of those 60 years, employees were receiving a higher percentage of the profits than they are now. This seems to have coincided with the decline of upward mobility in America.
Maybe that's why the wealth gap is widening.

 

[Jarhead]

One question.
Did you read the article?
Or did you just read the headline?
Another question. How many restaurants closed every month/year in Seattle prior to the wage increase.
That information wasn't in the article.
Then compare that to how many restaurants have closed since the wage increase?
Damn!

It’s evident that those Demoncrats don’t have a clue about economics. They never think of the consequences of their “feel good policies.” Neither do they have a clue how a business is run and operated. Seems to me this should be a litmus test for elected officials



Seattle eateries closing as 15 minimum wage approaches Hot Air

This article is less political and far more accurate. It may answer some of the questions you have mentioned. It explains how the restaurants closed for reasons that have nothing to do with wages. Some of them closed and reopened new ones. I think most of the posters are not interested in accuracy on this topic.

actually, it seems most are not interested in determining whether or not a forced increase in operating costs would have a negative affect on a business.....

I offered this scenario with no response. It is an accurate scenario, as most business owners make less than 75K a year....

A man owns a small restaurant...it was his lifelong dream. He wasn't overly ambitious...he just wanted to cook and serve for a living...so he has a small restaurant with 6 employees. He generates about 1000 a week profit. Not a lot, but he loves what he does, his wife is a nurse making another 70K a year, so they are doing just fine...making 120K a year with 3 kids.

Now he is told by his state government that he must pay an extra 5 an hour to each of his 6 employees.....or 30 an hour....an extra 1200 a week.

So now he is losing 200 a week with his lifelong dream restaurant.....so his family is now making 60K total....

His employees lose their job, he loses his restaurant...and another middle class family is in a struggle.

 

[Mr Natural]

I predict that by the end of the year, there won't be a single restaurant left in Seattle thanks to the greedy fucking workers squeezing the lifeblood out of their poor, put upon employers.

 

[Jarhead]

View attachment 38024

I don't think Jesus was guaranteed a minimum wage when He worked as a carpenter. Minimum wage is an invention of confused stupid ass bureaucrats.

Remember that greed and thievery are also sins and anybody that elects Liberal politicians to use the government to steal money on their behalf would not meet the definition of Christian values.

I am not liberal nor am I liberal conservative, what I am is Middle Class.
Regarding the minimum wage, I think it's a good idea as it sets a floor for wages.
In this country, we obviously have a greed issue.
The US for decades had the most prosperous Middle Class in the world, but the US middle class has lost ground to other developed nations. Canada now has the world's most prosperous middle class in the world and other nations are set to also pass the US's middle class. For example, since 2000, Canada's middle class saw a 19.7% increase in the median income, so did Britain's, while Ireland's saw 16.2%, the Netherlands 13.9%, the US saw 6.3%. Why?
Regarding upward mobility, America has fallen behind Europe.
"Economic mobility is becoming a more prominent issue in the 2012 Republican presidential race, and will likely be widely discussed in the general election. The GOP’s remaining top-tier candidates — Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich — have all sounded the alarm about American decline, promising to restore the “American Dream” and make the pursuit of happiness seem like more of a worthwhile endeavor (as Romney as consistently hammered on about recently). But what’s shocking is that rather than focusing on the American Dream these days, politicians and academics seem to be talking more about the European Dream."
The Loss of Upward Mobility in the U.S. TIME.com
Now back to the minimum wage, do you realize that raising the minimum wage helps the middle class, more so than those below the poverty line?
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
CNSNews.com) – Three times as many workers from middle-class families would benefit from President Obama's proposal to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $10.10 an hour as those living in households below the federal poverty line, according to a new study.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor CNS News
If the conservative Cato Institute thinks this, why would any middle class conservative deny this?
Over three decades of flat wages (in Real Dollars/constant dollars), it's no wonder why the American Middle Class is in such trouble.
Having a steadily weakening middle class hurts the US economy. As the graph below shows, as the middle class has weakened, recession have taken longer to recover. Is it all just a coincidence? Now that's doubtful.View attachment 38017
Someone is making a killing keeping wages flat as profits have hit record highs, yet wages remain flat. Why don't folks take off their ideological hats and stop to think for themselves and their own future is beyond me.

What helps the middle class is a free market for labor and less government restrictions because then business can prosper and that will always drive wages up.

Because this country has been leaning more towards the Left the Middle Class has suffered. Since Obama has took over average family income has declined.

Profits have hit record levels and wages have been flat long before Obama. They have been flat under both Democratic and Republican leadership.
How about thinking without trying to play partisan politics. In this case, both the right and left are guilty as real facts show.
[/ATTACH] View attachment 38021

I suggest you understand studies before you cite them.

During that 60 year span, those profits, on the most part were reinvested into R and D and expansion, allowing for the employment of millions of people....opportunities that allowed many of them to build the capital to go out on their own....

Sure, the business owners reaped the financial rewards...and the rest of us reaped the rewards of long term opportunity...and others reaped the rewards of our success.....and that is how it works.

Know the basis of a study before citing it.

Keep in mind that during a portion of those 60 years, employees were receiving a higher percentage of the profits than they are now. This seems to have coincided with the decline of upward mobility in America.
Maybe that's why the wealth gap is widening.

the wealth gap is widening because of the implementation of technology...

But the truth is, the wealth gap is widening between the very top earners and the rest...and those folks are such a small percentage of the population, their spending habits have virtually no affect on pricing....thus no affect on the rest of us.

But the gap between the average business owner and his/her employees, I am sure, has pretty much been the same over that same span of time.

Most business owners make 50-100K and their employees make anywhere from 25-40K a year.

 

[Jarhead]

I predict that by the end of the year, there won't be a single restaurant left in Seattle thanks to the greedy fucking workers squeezing the lifeblood out of their poor, put upon employers.

Curious...do you have any idea how much the average restaurant owner generates a year in profit?

If an owner owns one restaurant that has about 25 tables and 6 employees....how much do you think he/she would make?

There is the cost of the real estate (lease or ownership), the cost of payroll, the cost of food, utilities....and, of course, really only 2 meals a day...

What do you think his/her take home is?

 

[Flash]

There is not a whole lot of profit in food service or many other services that employ minimum wage people.

The government mandated a lot of that profit away.

Businesses will have a hard time because of that.

Stupid government.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Rarely are people paid what they are worth to our society.

Interesting. So, society should dictate the worth of a worker? That reeks of socialism.

No, just statement of fact.

Okay then, socialism.

 

[Jarhead]

There is not a whole lot of profit in food service or many other services that employ minimum wage people.

The government mandated a lot of that profit away.

Businesses will have a hard time because of that.

Stupid government.

No...stupid people who don't care to find out the truth...they prefer to believe the politicians who tell them they are victims of greed.

Sure....a guy who employs 6 people and profits 50K a year is greedy.

 

[Camp]

One question.
Did you read the article?
Or did you just read the headline?
Another question. How many restaurants closed every month/year in Seattle prior to the wage increase.
That information wasn't in the article.
Then compare that to how many restaurants have closed since the wage increase?
Damn!

It’s evident that those Demoncrats don’t have a clue about economics. They never think of the consequences of their “feel good policies.” Neither do they have a clue how a business is run and operated. Seems to me this should be a litmus test for elected officials



Seattle eateries closing as 15 minimum wage approaches Hot Air

This article is less political and far more accurate. It may answer some of the questions you have mentioned. It explains how the restaurants closed for reasons that have nothing to do with wages. Some of them closed and reopened new ones. I think most of the posters are not interested in accuracy on this topic.

actually, it seems most are not interested in determining whether or not a forced increase in operating costs would have a negative affect on a business.....

I offered this scenario with no response. It is an accurate scenario, as most business owners make less than 75K a year....

A man owns a small restaurant...it was his lifelong dream. He wasn't overly ambitious...he just wanted to cook and serve for a living...so he has a small restaurant with 6 employees. He generates about 1000 a week profit. Not a lot, but he loves what he does, his wife is a nurse making another 70K a year, so they are doing just fine...making 120K a year with 3 kids.

Now he is told by his state government that he must pay an extra 5 an hour to each of his 6 employees.....or 30 an hour....an extra 1200 a week.

So now he is losing 200 a week with his lifelong dream restaurant.....so his family is now making 60K total....

His employees lose their job, he loses his restaurant...and another middle class family is in a struggle.

The key numbers in the restaurant business are the number of plates served (meals), the cost of the plate (food and operating cost) and the charge for the plate. If the restaurant in your scenario is selling 200 plates per week and the labor cost has gone up $200 per week the answer is simple. Raise the price and/or reduce plate cost to increase profit by $1.00 per plate. The $5.95 chicken special becomes the $6.95 chicken special or the employees push appetizers and desserts and increase the sale of profitable appetizers and desserts to wrangle an extra buck from most of the customers. The appetizers and desserts are big money makers.

 

[Mr Natural]

There is not a whole lot of profit in food service or many other services that employ minimum wage people.

The government mandated a lot of that profit away.

Businesses will have a hard time because of that.

Stupid government.

No...stupid people who don't care to find out the truth...they prefer to believe the politicians who tell them they are victims of greed.

Sure....a guy who employs 6 people and profits 50K a year is greedy.

No way a guy making $50,000 a year is employing 6 people.

Maybe in 1955, but not 2015.

 

[Jarhead]

There is not a whole lot of profit in food service or many other services that employ minimum wage people.

The government mandated a lot of that profit away.

Businesses will have a hard time because of that.

Stupid government.

No...stupid people who don't care to find out the truth...they prefer to believe the politicians who tell them they are victims of greed.

Sure....a guy who employs 6 people and profits 50K a year is greedy.

No way a guy making $50,000 a year is employing 6 people.

Maybe in 1955, but not 2015.

Now I know you are not really interested in the truth.

Most small businesses generate between 50 and 100K profit.....now, that does not mean revenue......revenue may be 100's of thousands....even millions.....but after CoGS and rent, etc....profit may be only 50...60....70K.

To many business owners, to be in control of their own destiny; have something they own on their own; and still generate 50 or 60K a year in income which, when added to the spouses income is a nice living...it is worth it.

My first year, I earned a negative return. No employees.

My second year, I generated about 50K profit and my only employee at the time earned 25K.

My third year, I had 4 employees and I generated about 100K in porofit.....had payroll of about 120K...and I earned 100K...and at the time I was thrilled.

And my only CoGS was cost of payroll....I had rent and payroll as I was a service....no other costs such as raw materials.

A restaurant owner with 25 tables who serves Chinese food needs at least 6 employees....and trust me...he/she does not make a killing. Just a living.

 

[boilermaker55]

You explain to me why the article that was quoted never had any real facts.

One question.
Did you read the article?
Or did you just read the headline?
Another question. How many restaurants closed every month/year in Seattle prior to the wage increase.
That information wasn't in the article.
Then compare that to how many restaurants have closed since the wage increase?
Damn!

It’s evident that those Demoncrats don’t have a clue about economics. They never think of the consequences of their “feel good policies.” Neither do they have a clue how a business is run and operated. Seems to me this should be a litmus test for elected officials



Seattle eateries closing as 15 minimum wage approaches Hot Air

ok...

so explain this scenario and tell me where it does not make sense.....

A man owns a small restaurant...it was his lifelong dream. He wasn't overly ambitious...he just wanted to cook and serve for a living...so he has a small restaurant with 6 employees. He generates about 1000 a week profit. Not a lot, but he loves what he does, his wife is a nurse making another 70K a year, so they are doing just fine...making 120K a year with 3 kids.

Now he is told by his state government that he must pay an extra 5 an hour to each of his 6 employees.....or 30 an hour....an extra 1200 a week.

So now he is losing 200 a week with his lifelong dream restaurant.....so his family is now making 60K total....

His employees lose their job, he loses his restaurant...and another middle class family is in a struggle.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage you shouldn't be in business.

Ah, liberal "compassion" at its finest.

 

[boilermaker55]

Thank you
I agree with the statement. Most don't want or won't accept facts.

One question.
Did you read the article?
Or did you just read the headline?
Another question. How many restaurants closed every month/year in Seattle prior to the wage increase.
That information wasn't in the article.
Then compare that to how many restaurants have closed since the wage increase?
Damn!

It’s evident that those Demoncrats don’t have a clue about economics. They never think of the consequences of their “feel good policies.” Neither do they have a clue how a business is run and operated. Seems to me this should be a litmus test for elected officials



Seattle eateries closing as 15 minimum wage approaches Hot Air

This article is less political and far more accurate. It may answer some of the questions you have mentioned. It explains how the restaurants closed for reasons that have nothing to do with wages. Some of them closed and reopened new ones. I think most of the posters are not interested in accuracy on this topic.

seattlemag.com/article/why-are-so-many-seattle-restaurants-closing-lately

 

[boilermaker55]

But, businesses don't close on their own accord? Be it how they managed or operated their business and how trends change.
Really?

One question.
Did you read the article?
Or did you just read the headline?
Another question. How many restaurants closed every month/year in Seattle prior to the wage increase.
That information wasn't in the article.
Then compare that to how many restaurants have closed since the wage increase?
Damn!

It’s evident that those Demoncrats don’t have a clue about economics. They never think of the consequences of their “feel good policies.” Neither do they have a clue how a business is run and operated. Seems to me this should be a litmus test for elected officials



Seattle eateries closing as 15 minimum wage approaches Hot Air

This article is less political and far more accurate. It may answer some of the questions you have mentioned. It explains how the restaurants closed for reasons that have nothing to do with wages. Some of them closed and reopened new ones. I think most of the posters are not interested in accuracy on this topic.

actually, it seems most are not interested in determining whether or not a forced increase in operating costs would have a negative affect on a business.....

I offered this scenario with no response. It is an accurate scenario, as most business owners make less than 75K a year....

A man owns a small restaurant...it was his lifelong dream. He wasn't overly ambitious...he just wanted to cook and serve for a living...so he has a small restaurant with 6 employees. He generates about 1000 a week profit. Not a lot, but he loves what he does, his wife is a nurse making another 70K a year, so they are doing just fine...making 120K a year with 3 kids.

Now he is told by his state government that he must pay an extra 5 an hour to each of his 6 employees.....or 30 an hour....an extra 1200 a week.

So now he is losing 200 a week with his lifelong dream restaurant.....so his family is now making 60K total....

His employees lose their job, he loses his restaurant...and another middle class family is in a struggle.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage you shouldn't be in business.

I think what you were trying to convey was, YOU want to decice what a FAIR wage is!!!!!

With no clue to operating expenses, profit margins or payable debts for a particular business...............

So who the FUCK do you think you are to tell any other person how much to pay their employess.

When you talk about a DECENT LIVING WAGE, there are those who live in the outskirts of society who have very little / no need for money. They either subsist off the land or barter for what they desire in life.

Then there would be the other school of Whimsical Faggots and black Gangsters who will let their babies starve just so they can hit the crack / meth pipe again or have another swill of rot gut liquor, all while drawing a government check and swearing up and down their position in life is so because of being victimized by Republicans / Big Business.

Yes sir, you can give all those shit bags truck loads of money and it will still never be enough.

Instead of your decent wage BS line try self responsibility, learning to live within ones means and anything worth having takes time( in other words let em work for the company 20yrs. or perhaps step up to a more responsible position.

Damn. once that word responsible came into that last statement we all know that is just not possible.

Holla

Another republican....blah blah blah. I hate poor people,blah blah blah I need a new bonus blah blah blah to buy a new porsche.

No one hates poor people, I detest IGNORANT people, you being one.

If that's how you wanna wrap your hatred up.....be my guest.

Hey, WE aren't the ones who are so adamant about "compassionately" demanding $15 an hour for people that we're willing to airily wave our hands and say, "So what? Fuck 'em!" when it ends up giving them NO dollars an hour whatsoever. "My way or no way" is easy to say when YOU aren't the one who gets to live with the "no way".

 

[Iceweasel]

No, weak failing businesses will go under. They weren't putting out a good enough product. If you're bitchin about paying workers, your business is obviously weak and failing. It's probably best to close up shop. It's survival of the fittest. The American Way.

A weak and failing people rely increasingly on a nanny state that dictates fairness to its' subjects. Probably time to pack up and leave.

Oh well, looks like it's getting harder to get richer off shitting on workers. Personally, i don't see that as a bad thing. If American Workers don't stand up for themselves, who will? You? Sorry, but can't count on people like you. It is what it is.

What it is is people like you would rather be unemployed and occupying public property with your nasty ass while proclaiming the rich got that way because of your dishwashing job. You should do standup at a restaurant association convention and tell them how rich they are getting. You'll have them rolling in the aisles.

 

[Iceweasel]

[


Sorry, but i'm not buying into the whole outrage thing about being pissed off because you can't get richer off shitting on your workers. No sympathy from me on that one. There's no crying in Business. You don't wanna pay, do the work yourself. Otherwise, stop whining and close your business.

Just when is paying free market wages "shitting on your employees"?

Look, let's be real. It's all about the greed. So let's not kid ourselves. Most business owners are bitchin now because they've enjoyed getting richer off paying their lowly workers as little as possible. It is what it is on that. But now they'll have to pay up a bit.

So oh well, looks like it's 3 Vacations instead of 4 this year. Unless you're willing to do the work yourself, you need workers. And you have to pay em a decent wage. Sorry, too bad. Deal with it or go out of business.

It's obvious you've never owned a business. Probably never held a job for very long either given your dumbfuckery.

 

[danielpalos]

when I was 16 years old, I would walk into a McDonalds and every cashier was one of my friends. I would go to a local restaurant, and the bus boys were my friends. I would walk into the local deli and the serve staff were my friends. I would go to the local department store and the floor staff were my friends.

Those jobs were never meant for those that needed to earn a living wage. Those establishments were able to overcome the high cost of real estate, insurance and overall CoGS, yet still be able to sell a burger for less than a dollar, or a bagel for 25 cents BECAUSE it did not require skilled labor to present the product to the consumer.

The issue is not about how much an establishment should pay its unskilled labor.

The issue is why those with families are taking jobs that dont warrant a salary equal to a "living wage".

It is a social issue. Not an economic issue.

Why do you believe a Natural Rate of Unemployment is a social issue?

I don't.

Then, your entire premise is unsound if you don't solve for a natural rate of unemployment.

Why? at the end of 2014, there was an estimated 4 Million jobs available to Americans. That is not a sign of NRoU....so I do not understand why that is an issue as it pertains to my comments.

Are you appealing to ignorance of structural forms of unemployment? Why are there any jobs available, if markets are functioning at full employment of resources?