Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[Flash]

[

In reality, businesses do not pay people based on productivity. Businesses pay as little as possible in order to maximize profits.

That is not true.

Businesses usually pay the prevailing free labor market rates unless the filthy ass government interferes with mandated wages.

 

[Camp]

Well, we are working our way to 1,000 post and 100 pages and we are still waiting for the link that shows an actual restaurant closing in Seattle due specifically to a law that is going to increase the minimum wage. Did I miss that post and link?

 

[Jarhead]

So it's better for people to go out of business altogether, thus providing no jobs at all, if they can't meet your ridiculous demands? Keep it coming. I am loving this leftist "common sense" and "compassion".

Myself, I'd rather try to make ends meet on 40 hours a week at $9 an hour rather than 0 hours a week at $15 an hour, but that's just me.

How would few about companies that can only afford to pay you $5.00 an hour, or a buck fifty a day? Are those companies we should support? If you have no job, because the labor market is smaller, then you have plenty of time to build your own company or go back to school, on the cheap if the system is done right.

a company that can only afford to pay 5 an hour will be unable to secure employees.

So your premise is a failed one.

Not at all. At that rate the turnover is terrific, or I can only hire teens, but the point is at what wage level do we just say the hell with it, there has to be a better way of doing business? If you can't afford to pay a living wage there's a very good chance that you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

there are many jobs that do not require those that need a living wage.....and only require the high school sophomore.

Don't know your age, but when I was a kid, every single person working at McDonalds was my age....16-18.....every single person pricing the Peas at the A&P were my age.....every kid cleaning the tables at the local deli was...well.....a kid.

I don't have an issue with kids being paid like kids, I have an issue with adults being paid that way. And if the only way you can stay in business is by using teen labor, you need another business plan.

You are absolutely wrong.

Why does a Burger King need adult labor other than the manager?

Better yet, lets look at a small business...one establishment...

A Pool Maintenance company.......a guy has four teens (college kids or late high school) and his business is servicing pools. Each kid services 4 pools a day...16 pools in total.....they vacuum, check the chemicals, backwash the filter, skim the top....he charges 50 bucks a pool and pays the kids 10 an hour and he reimburses them for gas. They make 5700 each for the summer (12 weeks) and are thrilled to death....the owner makes 45,000 after he pays the kids...and that is for 3 months.

That is a bad business model?

 

[Jarhead]

How would few about companies that can only afford to pay you $5.00 an hour, or a buck fifty a day? Are those companies we should support? If you have no job, because the labor market is smaller, then you have plenty of time to build your own company or go back to school, on the cheap if the system is done right.

a company that can only afford to pay 5 an hour will be unable to secure employees.

So your premise is a failed one.

Not at all. At that rate the turnover is terrific, or I can only hire teens, but the point is at what wage level do we just say the hell with it, there has to be a better way of doing business? If you can't afford to pay a living wage there's a very good chance that you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

there are many jobs that do not require those that need a living wage.....and only require the high school sophomore.

Don't know your age, but when I was a kid, every single person working at McDonalds was my age....16-18.....every single person pricing the Peas at the A&P were my age.....every kid cleaning the tables at the local deli was...well.....a kid.

I don't have an issue with kids being paid like kids, I have an issue with adults being paid that way. And if the only way you can stay in business is by using teen labor, you need another business plan.

You are absolutely wrong.

Why does a Burger King need adult labor other than the manager?

Better yet, lets look at a small business...one establishment...

A Pool Maintenance company.......a guy has four teens (college kids or late high school) and his business is servicing pools. Each kid services 4 pools a day...16 pools in total.....they vacuum, check the chemicals, backwash the filter, skim the top....he charges 50 bucks a pool and pays the kids 10 an hour and he reimburses them for gas. They make 5700 each for the summer (12 weeks) and are thrilled to death....the owner makes 45,000 after he pays the kids...and that is for 3 months.

That is a bad business model?

oh...and by the way...the above example...here in the northeast...is a typical business....one that costs almost nothing to start...and I know several former pool boys that ultimately started their own pool company.

I will say it again..

It is not how can we pay adults more to do menial labor...

It is addressing the issue that adults are taking jobs doing menial labor.

 

[Jarhead]

Well, we are working our way to 1,000 post and 100 pages and we are still waiting for the link that shows an actual restaurant closing in Seattle due specifically to a law that is going to increase the minimum wage. Did I miss that post and link?

the article is irrelevant. The debate is what it has morphed into at this point. And I am finding that no one really wants to debate facts. Just offer opinion. Address the simple question....why does a pool service company need to hire adults to clean pools? Why is it a failed business model if it does not have to hire adults?

 

[Flash]

The point too is, that most refuse to factor in, are the huge corporate business that can change employees like socks and pay them wages to maximize their profits.
When John Q. Public starts to realize patronizing local small business makes a community prosper , things will get better.
Corporate profits leave the community to pay shareholders.

I only patronize small businesses when they have good and services I want at competitive prices otherwise they don't get my business.

What makes a community prosper is good and services at the lowest possible prices.

By the way, many people in any community enjoy corporate profits through their investments and pensions.

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

If You Own a Pitchfork You Will Grab It When You See This Chart Mother Jones

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

Union workers provide goods and services and you have an intense hatred of labor...you think Union workers are greedy but their bosses you think are the greatest...this is why you are pathetic in a word...a "little man" pretending to be a "big man"

 

[Jarhead]

The point too is, that most refuse to factor in, are the huge corporate business that can change employees like socks and pay them wages to maximize their profits.
When John Q. Public starts to realize patronizing local small business makes a community prosper , things will get better.
Corporate profits leave the community to pay shareholders.

I only patronize small businesses when they have good and services I want at competitive prices otherwise they don't get my business.

What makes a community prosper is good and services at the lowest possible prices.

By the way, many people in any community enjoy corporate profits through their investments and pensions.

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

Not to mention that large corporations make up a very small percentage of business owners in the US. Most are small business owners and the backbone of the middle class. Have you ever been to the Empire State Building in Manhattan? On any given floor, you will find 40 different businesses utilizing less than 1000 square feet. Each with 10 employees or less...and that is one floor in one building in a city of hundreds of buildings in a state with hundreds of cities in a country with thousands of cities.
The leaders of the left have the left believing that all business is big business and can afford government mandates. Most are not and most struggle to meet those mandates.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

How would few about companies that can only afford to pay you $5.00 an hour, or a buck fifty a day? Are those companies we should support? If you have no job, because the labor market is smaller, then you have plenty of time to build your own company or go back to school, on the cheap if the system is done right.

a company that can only afford to pay 5 an hour will be unable to secure employees.

So your premise is a failed one.

Not at all. At that rate the turnover is terrific, or I can only hire teens, but the point is at what wage level do we just say the hell with it, there has to be a better way of doing business? If you can't afford to pay a living wage there's a very good chance that you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

there are many jobs that do not require those that need a living wage.....and only require the high school sophomore.

Don't know your age, but when I was a kid, every single person working at McDonalds was my age....16-18.....every single person pricing the Peas at the A&P were my age.....every kid cleaning the tables at the local deli was...well.....a kid.

I don't have an issue with kids being paid like kids, I have an issue with adults being paid that way. And if the only way you can stay in business is by using teen labor, you need another business plan.

You are absolutely wrong.

Why does a Burger King need adult labor other than the manager?

Better yet, lets look at a small business...one establishment...

A Pool Maintenance company.......a guy has four teens (college kids or late high school) and his business is servicing pools. Each kid services 4 pools a day...16 pools in total.....they vacuum, check the chemicals, backwash the filter, skim the top....he charges 50 bucks a pool and pays the kids 10 an hour and he reimburses them for gas. They make 5700 each for the summer (12 weeks) and are thrilled to death....the owner makes 45,000 after he pays the kids...and that is for 3 months.

That is a bad business model?

Yes, because he has to do it with kids.

 

[Jarhead]

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

Union workers provide goods and services and you have an intense hatred of labor...you think Union workers are greedy but their bosses you think are the greatest...this is why you are pathetic in a word...a "little man" pretending to be a "big man"

if you feel the need to spin the truth in a debate, you are showing your opponent that you are very insecure in your position.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The point too is, that most refuse to factor in, are the huge corporate business that can change employees like socks and pay them wages to maximize their profits.
When John Q. Public starts to realize patronizing local small business makes a community prosper , things will get better.
Corporate profits leave the community to pay shareholders.

I only patronize small businesses when they have good and services I want at competitive prices otherwise they don't get my business.

What makes a community prosper is good and services at the lowest possible prices.

By the way, many people in any community enjoy corporate profits through their investments and pensions.

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

Corporations are amoral, they externalize their expenses if at all possible, they will exploit their workers if at all possible;e, and they don't pay nearly their fair share in taxes. Add to that the fact that they aren't patriotic and there are damn good reasons to both watch and regulate them. Adam Smith didn't like them banned for no reason.

 

[Jarhead]

a company that can only afford to pay 5 an hour will be unable to secure employees.

So your premise is a failed one.

Not at all. At that rate the turnover is terrific, or I can only hire teens, but the point is at what wage level do we just say the hell with it, there has to be a better way of doing business? If you can't afford to pay a living wage there's a very good chance that you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

there are many jobs that do not require those that need a living wage.....and only require the high school sophomore.

Don't know your age, but when I was a kid, every single person working at McDonalds was my age....16-18.....every single person pricing the Peas at the A&P were my age.....every kid cleaning the tables at the local deli was...well.....a kid.

I don't have an issue with kids being paid like kids, I have an issue with adults being paid that way. And if the only way you can stay in business is by using teen labor, you need another business plan.

You are absolutely wrong.

Why does a Burger King need adult labor other than the manager?

Better yet, lets look at a small business...one establishment...

A Pool Maintenance company.......a guy has four teens (college kids or late high school) and his business is servicing pools. Each kid services 4 pools a day...16 pools in total.....they vacuum, check the chemicals, backwash the filter, skim the top....he charges 50 bucks a pool and pays the kids 10 an hour and he reimburses them for gas. They make 5700 each for the summer (12 weeks) and are thrilled to death....the owner makes 45,000 after he pays the kids...and that is for 3 months.

That is a bad business model?

Yes, because he has to do it with kids.

No he doesn't.
He prefers to do it with kids.

He can pay 15 an hour to an adult to do it and still do well, but the work itself does not require an adult. It is ideal for a kid who wants to earn some money.

I know you get it....you are just stuck on trying to refute it.

 

[Jarhead]

The point too is, that most refuse to factor in, are the huge corporate business that can change employees like socks and pay them wages to maximize their profits.
When John Q. Public starts to realize patronizing local small business makes a community prosper , things will get better.
Corporate profits leave the community to pay shareholders.

I only patronize small businesses when they have good and services I want at competitive prices otherwise they don't get my business.

What makes a community prosper is good and services at the lowest possible prices.

By the way, many people in any community enjoy corporate profits through their investments and pensions.

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

Corporations are amoral, they externalize their expenses if at all possible, they will exploit their workers if at all possible;e, and they don't pay nearly their fair share in taxes. Add to that the fact that they aren't patriotic and there are damn good reasons to both watch and regulate them. Adam Smith didn't like them banned for no reason.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am an S-corp....I paid over 160K in taxes between federal and state in 2013...an s-corp does not pay federal tax, but any profit becomes my k-1 income....sure, I can evade....but I don't. When I had employees, the largest gap between me and my highest paid employee was 2-1...the highest gap between me and my lowest paid employee was 8-1 (she was right out of college and I was 30 years in business)....

And I was a typical small business owner.

You are stereotyping.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Four restaurants closing makes it easier for the other eateries to establish working prices that lead to a profit.

Yes ... because EVERYONE loves going to a ultra crowded, overly priced restaurant.

Stay home then.

Many will do just that. Which will drop the income of the restaurants which leads to more closing which leads to less employees...

See the cycle here?

And the restaurants that can afford to pay will gain customers, and then have to hire more staff. Or they will raise prices, which people will pay because the ones with lower prices are now out of business. Got it now?

So, this is all just another plot to relieve the "one-percenters" of their wealth, because they are probably the only folks who will be able to afford the inflated prices at you new "upscale" restaurants. Cool! Where there's a will, there's a way, I suppose. The rest of us will be forced to eat smaller portions of home-made food at home more often, even better to further healthy diet choices.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Corporations are not the bogeyman the confused Left makes them out to be. They provide goods and services, employ tens of millions of people, pay a ton in taxes at all levels and are usually community supporters.

Union workers provide goods and services and you have an intense hatred of labor...you think Union workers are greedy but their bosses you think are the greatest...this is why you are pathetic in a word...a "little man" pretending to be a "big man"

if you feel the need to spin the truth in a debate, you are showing your opponent that you are very insecure in your position.

I happen to know that stooge that calls itself Flash, he is a recalcitrant hater.....he is a hypocrite who calls labor greedy and worships the CEO s ...

 

[Jarhead]

If You Own a Pitchfork You Will Grab It When You See This Chart Mother Jones

Are you aware that those bonus numbers encompass ALL employees on Wall Street (wall street meaning "financial industry").....all exempt AND non exempt employees....all employees stationed around the world....

My sons girlfriend went to NYC public schools. She lived in the Bronx. Her dad was a cab driver, her mom a home health care provider. She was a nerd in high school (as she puts it).....she managed a 4.0, was a cheerleader, on the debate team, etc.....she got a full scholarship to a top school in the SUNY system. She graduated Summa Cum Laud. Goldman Sachs recruited her from college. Her first full year, she was paid 42K in base salary. She worked 12 hour days (by choice)...she received a 25% bonus. By the end of her second year, she was promoted to an exempt position...base salary 72K.....and a bonus of 25%.

She was not a benefit of white privilege. She is Hindu.

Seems she made all of the right choices...and is reaping the rewards.

Hate her. I dare you.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

No the minimum wage isn't forcing these Seattle restaurants to close - LA Times

There's no sign that Seattle's minimum wage hike is hurting its restaurants
Conservatives hunt for evidence that Seattle's minimum wage will hurt business, can't find it

Anti-minimum wage conservatives are in full gloat over a recent report in a Seattle magazine that lots of Seattle restaurants have closed lately or are due to close in the next weeks or months.
The last arguments against raising the minimum wage are gone
The conservatives gleefully associate this phenomenon with the coming increase in the city's minimum wage, which kicks in April 1 with a rise to $11 an hour from $9.32. (Employers whose workers earn tips get a break--they can pay $10 if the workers make up at least another dollar from their tips.) The wage hike builds over time; for employers with fewer than 500 workers, which would probably cover every full-service Seattle restaurant, the ultimate increase to $16.49--or $15 for tip earners--doesn't happen until 2021.

lRelated
David Watkins of the Lawyers, Guns & Money blog points out that the minimum wage opponents are declaring "We told you so" way too soon. In fact, the article that inspired the gloating doesn't ascribe any of the closings to the minimum wage increase and, indeed, points to different reasons in every case. As for the idea that Seattle restaurants are "closing in record number" (sic), as the Tea Party News Network proclaims, it's just not so.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

If You Own a Pitchfork You Will Grab It When You See This Chart Mother Jones

Are you aware that those bonus numbers encompass ALL employees on Wall Street (wall street meaning "financial industry").....all exempt AND non exempt employees....all employees stationed around the world....

My sons girlfriend went to NYC public schools. She lived in the Bronx. Her dad was a cab driver, her mom a home health care provider. She was a nerd in high school (as she puts it).....she managed a 4.0, was a cheerleader, on the debate team, etc.....she got a full scholarship to a top school in the SUNY system. She graduated Summa Cum Laud. Goldman Sachs recruited her from college. Her first full year, she was paid 42K in base salary. She worked 12 hour days (by choice)...she received a 25% bonus. By the end of her second year, she was promoted to an exempt position...base salary 72K.....and a bonus of 25%.

She was not a benefit of white privilege. She is Hindu.

Seems she made all of the right choices...and is reaping the rewards.

Hate her. I dare you.

I do not hate anyone I leave the hating to the Christian fundamentalists

 

[DigitalDrifter]

If you can't afford to pay you staff a living wage then you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

If we create tons of jobs, but they all pay a buck an hour, that doesn't help anyone but the capitalists who get rich paying jack-shit to their employees.

So all minimum wage jobs should be "living wage" jobs ?