Brandishing lawyer won't get his guns back

[bripat9643]

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Dumbass.

You believe that proves I brought up the arm? It proves exactly the opposite, you fucking moron.

 

[SavannahMann]

You believe that proves I brought up the arm? It proves exactly the opposite, you fucking moron.

So you are ignorant of the law. Idiotic regarding the basic tactical principles of even a class for beginners. And you are a moron to boot.

 

[meaner gene]

You believe that proves I brought up the arm? It proves exactly the opposite, you fucking moron.

If you're surrounded by hundreds of armed hostiles, then it's appropriate to have your finger on the trigger.

But if it's just protesters who haven't even breeched your property line, then it's completely reckless, and against all gun safety rules to do so.

Pointing loaded gun at a person you don't intend to kill - Strike one

Putting your finger on the trigger of a loaded gun not pointing at your intended target - Strike two.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

I am arguing that an innocent person who is doing time for a crime they did not commit and has otherwise exhausted all legal recourse would gladly accept a pardon.

I fully understand that. A person who, according to them, was incorrectly convicted might indeed enjoy a pardon. But if they're going to accept the pardon, then they are conceding their guilt.

Like it or not, we are a nation of laws that rule us. It's the law that determines guilt or innocence, nothing else. If you are convicted, you are guilty, period. Even if you are incorrectly convicted, you are guilty in the eyes of the law. And the law is supreme.

As such, the only such thing as being "wrongly" convicted is when a legal violation that occurred in the course of your conviction. This might be the obvious examples, such as if the prosecution withholds exculpatory evidence, or if the police lie, etc. Or it could be the more common scenarios, like if a trial court errs by admitting certain evidence that should have been inadmissible, or when the police deny your right to an attorney. That is a wrong conviction in that proper legal procedures are not followed.

But even if you didn't actually do what you're accusing of doing, if all the correct procedures are followed and a jury of your peers convicts you, then the conviction isn't wrong under the law. You may not like it, but it's a fact of life.

 

[meaner gene]

I fully understand that. A person who, according to them, was incorrectly convicted might indeed enjoy a pardon. But if they're going to accept the pardon, then they are conceding their guilt.

There is actually more to how a pardon actually works. The pardon first has to be delivered to the person being pardoned. Now it's up to them, what to do with that pardon. They can lock it up as a souvenir, and they can continue to fight their legal case.

Or, they can present the pardon, to a court of law to execute the pardon, to either stop legal proceedings against them, or remove the penalties of their conviction.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I am arguing that an innocent person who is doing time for a crime they did not commit and has otherwise exhausted all legal recourse would gladly accept a pardon.

Because this is you just making shit up. Because admitting facts and reality Would undermine your narrative.

You always do that. Whenever anything happens, that doesn't agree with your white nationalist narrative, you just make shit up.

 

[meaner gene]

I am arguing that an innocent person who is doing time for a crime they did not commit and has otherwise exhausted all legal recourse would gladly accept a pardon.

But what of the person who has the resources to appeal his conviction, but accepts a pardon instead.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But what of the person who has the resources to appeal his conviction, but accepts a pardon instead.

But what if he's really a God from another planet and on the planet where he lives? Where the rules are better than ours. It's actually legal and his fellow gods advised him to pretend he is guilty so that he wouldn't have to face the courts of our lesser species.


You know since we're all just making shit up out of thin air

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Because this is you just making shit up. Because admitting facts and reality Would undermine your narrative.

You always do that. Whenever anything happens, that doesn't agree with your white nationalist narrative, you just make shit up.

I am about ready to put you back on ignore again.

I included my thoughts, the text of the pardon (post 42), a link to support my assertions which was written by a distinguished legal scholar at UCLA (post 236).

I would be happy to have a civil discussion with you if you have a point to make on this Law and Justice System forum.

 

[meaner gene]

I am about ready to put you back on ignore again.

I included my thoughts, the text of the pardon (post 42), a link to support my assertions which was written by a distinguished legal scholar at UCLA (post 236).

I would be happy to have a civil discussion with you if you have a point to make on this Law and Justice System forum.

One subtlety of how a pardon works, is removing the penalty but not the guilt, doesn't not refund any fines or penalties paid before the pardon was executed.

Ex: The person sentenced to 6 months and $50,000 fine.
He pays $10,000 and serves 30 days in jail before the pardon. He is absolved of any further punishment, so he gets out of jail, and doesn't have to pay the remaining $40,000. But he gets neither time served, or money paid back.

Which is why the guns, already turned over, don't get returned.

 

[bripat9643]

If you're surrounded by hundreds of armed hostiles, then it's appropriate to have your finger on the trigger.

But if it's just protesters who haven't even breeched your property line, then it's completely reckless, and against all gun safety rules to do so.

Pointing loaded gun at a person you don't intend to kill - Strike one

Putting your finger on the trigger of a loaded gun not pointing at your intended target - Strike two.

No one who uses a gun to defend himself intends to kill anyone unless the perp makes it necessary, you fucking moron.

Why is everything you say so stupid?

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

One subtlety of how a pardon works, is removing the penalty but not the guilt, doesn't not refund any fines or penalties paid before the pardon was executed.

Well, duh, that's what this case is all about. [Post #42]

 

[bripat9643]

One subtlety of how a pardon works, is removing the penalty but not the guilt, doesn't not refund any fines or penalties paid before the pardon was executed.

There is no guilt, moron.

 

[SavannahMann]

No one who uses a gun to defend himself intends to kill anyone unless the perp makes it necessary, you fucking moron.

Why is everything you say so stupid?

If, God Forbid you ever have to shoot someone. I’d suggest you shut your mouth and let a lawyer speak for you. You might just be lucky and avoid a trial.

 

[bripat9643]

If, God Forbid you ever have to shoot someone. I’d suggest you shut your mouth and let a lawyer speak for you. You might just be lucky and avoid a trial.

Thanks for the useless advice, asshole.

 

[meaner gene]

No one who uses a gun to defend himself intends to kill anyone unless the perp makes it necessary, you fucking moron.

Why is everything you say so stupid?

Yet the protesters stayed in the street (didn't violate their property) and the wife pointed a loaded gun at them, ready to shoot, with her finger on the trigger.

 

[meaner gene]

Well, duh, that's what this case is all about. [Post #42]

It was also because relinquishing their weapons was part of the plea agreement they made for the misdemeanor charges.

So they were still bound by the terms of the plea agreement.

So the guns were forfeit no matter what.

 

[meaner gene]

There is no guilt, moron.

Actually the person remains convicted of the crime. The record of conviction is not expunged, and remains on the record. The pardon is then annexed to the conviction to show the conviction has no legal force.

But the behavior the person was convicted of, can still be used against them. Example a convicted sex offender who receives a pardon, still has to register as a convicted sex offender.

A Pardon does NOT:
A pardon does not relieve a convicted sex offender of the requirement to register as such.

 

[SavannahMann]

Thanks for the useless advice, asshole.

I mention it because you used the phrase shoot to kill. That phrase will get you in a lot of trouble. Just that phrase. And like out fairly recent example, the McMichaels, you would talk and pretty much guarantee that you stood trial.

Defensive Gun Use: What to Expect After a Self-Defense Shooting - U.S. LawShield

In this guide: defensive gun use: what to expect after a self-defense shooting, we'll cover: how to call 911, what happens to your gun and much more.

www.uslawshield.com

I offer that link as a primer on what you should do. Maybe, with a little luck, if you ever do have to fire in self defense, the lawyer will help you avoid prison. You would not believe how many people talked their way into prison.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

It was also because relinquishing their weapons was part of the plea agreement they made for the misdemeanor charges.

So they were still bound by the terms of the plea agreement.

It sure was, thanks.

Here is the plea agreement (transcript)...

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/8f/c8f6c5c5-98be-5ecb-bc27-64b94308bbb3/61d5ec357e957.pdf.pdf

Actually the person remains convicted of the crime. The record of conviction is not expunged, and remains on the record. The pardon is then annexed to the conviction to show the conviction has no legal force.

Are you sure about that?

Missouri law says the Governor can set the conditions of the pardon as he deems proper. The pardon said....

The word "obliterate" means to destroy or remove completely, leaving no trace.