Both sides won’t like my take on policing.

[gipper]

Yes. We need to focus on the ACTUAL problem. That is police brutality. Not race.
Police brutality comes in all shapes, sizes and colors.

I've never been "brutalized" by the police. But then again, except for two speeding infractions I've never broken any laws.

So?

Really? Your reading comprehension sub-par. What I said is that criminals are brutalized by the police, as it should be.

That’s crazy and unamerican. Traitor!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I still say just pull all the cops out of the ghetto and let them fend for themselves.
I mean thats what they want right?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

Another big problem with cops is that they've been turned into defacto revenuers.....the national lowering of the BAC to .08, which is absurd, has served as nothing more than a big cash grab, so states and municipalities can float their bloated bureaucracies without raising taxes.

They're even pushing to lower that to .05. Heck, according to those levels, I'll be drunk on one schlitz.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The issues we see today are NOT a race problem. They are a policing problem. Yes there IS a policing problem. I’ve been on this train long before Micheal Brown made it in the news. The stats simply don’t point to it being a race problem. Now, stick with me black folk. YES more black people per capita are killed by police than white people, despite only making up 13% of the population. What you have to take into account is the amount of police interactions each race is having. Around 20% of black men are felons. The number for whites is much lower. Not an indictment of race, has more to do with social status than anything. Low income white neighborhoods are basically indistinguishable from low income black neighborhoods, outside of the drugs used and choice of music. To become a felon means some sort of interaction with law enforcement. If you want to debate why that is, take it up in a different thread. Point of this is that when amount of police interaction are taken into consideration, whites are killed more often than blacks. Blacks on the other hand are the ones feeling the effects more so than whites in general.

Let’s use philando Castile as a case study. Yes he’s black, but there’s also a similar case of the white kid in Nevada sobbing on his knees begging the police not to shoot him, reaches to pull his pants up (that he already stated we’re falling down) and gets smoked. I digress. Philandos case recap: he’s pulled over, correctly tells the officer that he is carrying, and that he has his carrier permit. Officer tells him not to reach, Philando says something to the effect of I’m just grabbing my wallet, and then gets smoked. Officers in both cases were found to be completely within their rights to shoot. There lies your problem. Both officers were wrong to do so. But both officers were trained to do so. It’s ridiculous to me that police have a lower standard of use of lethal force than our soldiers do in literal war zones. Movies like lethal weapon have cops in gunfights on a daily basis. Policing overall is a fairly safe job. More dangerous than most, but other jobs like construction and garbage collection are more dangerous. Truth is that far more cops die when they’re hit by a car after pulling someone over than the apocalypse scenario they keep citing of getting shot by the driver they just pulled over. Yes that still happens, it’s tragic, but also extremely rare. Truth is what’s really killing cops is traffic accidents and diabetes (they are among the most overweight professions out there). Yet the amount of SWAT teams being created, tactical weaponry and vehicles being issued, and the no knock warrants has been exploding. This explosion was happening despite the already quickly declining crime rates.

So, what are solutions. Obviously there needs to be training reform. SOME departments are trained that if you draw your weapon, that is more often than not a failure because the police in the situation failed to de-escalate the situation. Most of the people they’re smoking are people with mental disabilities. Plenty are violent criminals, yes. Now I want cops to be armed and have every ability to defend themselves. But I also want there to be clear rules for use of lethal force. Clear rules for how they detain and subdue someone. We also need to get rid of police unions. Anytime a public sector union negotiates, THEY ARE NEGOTIATING AGAINST THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER. That goes for the rules they advocate, as well as the money they get. Some examples of some of those rules. The biggest is the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights (LEBOR). Basically many states have the LEBOR that’s states that police have to be treated with kid gloves when being investigated. This is immoral. Plain and simple. They have one system of justice, we have another. Another one that’s been mentioned a lot, that concerns me less, is the qualified immunity, which deals with civil suits. Still bullshit though.

Another big problem with cops is that they've been turned into defacto revenuers.....the national lowering of the BAC to .08, which is absurd, has served as nothing more than a big cash grab, so states and municipalities can float their bloated bureaucracies without raising taxes.

They're even pushing to lower that to .05. Heck, according to those levels, I'll be drunk on one schlitz.

Yep...it's total bullshit.
It wasn't that long ago that I could down a 12 pack and the only give was beer breath.
Not taking into account the person's resistance to alcohol is crap.

 

[tyroneweaver]

OP, who was "Stop & Frisk" targetted to?

Which poor communities you think are policed more, white or black ones?

Answer those if you don't mind.

Which community do you think is policed more in Burley Idaho
white or African American?

 

[OldLady]

OP, who was "Stop & Frisk" targetted to?

Which poor communities you think are policed more, white or black ones?

Answer those if you don't mind.

I thought what he said makes a lot of sense. I didn't read it as a dismissal of racism. Just what focus reforms should take. You can't wave a wand and change a person's attitude about race. But I sure agree that when the PD knows who their racist cops are and they turn a blind eye to it, that has to stop. Yeah, that is a union problem that needs to be remedied but we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to unions either.

This can be an exciting time of change. I hope it's taken advantage of in a constructive way.

 

[MarcATL]

I thought what he said makes a lot of sense. I didn't read it as a dismissal of racism. Just what focus reforms should take. You can't wave a wand and change a person's attitude about race. But I sure agree that when the PD knows who their racist cops are and they turn a blind eye to it, that has to stop. Yeah, that is a union problem that needs to be remedied but we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to unions either.

This can be an exciting time of change. I hope it's taken advantage of in a constructive way.

Police unions are corrupt from top to bottom. They aren't doing anyone any good.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

OP, who was "Stop & Frisk" targetted to?

Which poor communities you think are policed more, white or black ones?

Answer those if you don't mind.

I thought what he said makes a lot of sense. I didn't read it as a dismissal of racism. Just what focus reforms should take. You can't wave a wand and change a person's attitude about race. But I sure agree that when the PD knows who their racist cops are and they turn a blind eye to it, that has to stop. Yeah, that is a union problem that needs to be remedied but we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to unions either.

This can be an exciting time of change. I hope it's taken advantage of in a constructive way.

That would work in Candy Land.....or maybe The Big Rock Candy Mountains...



Cops are a fraternity,they are very unlikely to rat each other out. It's the same in the military.
I'm not saying it's right but you'll never get rid of it.
And if you did can you imagine what the atmosphere in the squad room would be like?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I thought what he said makes a lot of sense. I didn't read it as a dismissal of racism. Just what focus reforms should take. You can't wave a wand and change a person's attitude about race. But I sure agree that when the PD knows who their racist cops are and they turn a blind eye to it, that has to stop. Yeah, that is a union problem that needs to be remedied but we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to unions either.

This can be an exciting time of change. I hope it's taken advantage of in a constructive way.

Police unions are corrupt from top to bottom. They aren't doing anyone any good.

You can say the same about all unions.

 

[MarcATL]

You can say the same about all unions.

Police unions are the worst of them all.

 

[OldLady]

And if you did can you imagine what the atmosphere in the squad room would be like?

Yeah, I think you can change the culture in an institution and of course it would be for the better. The racists can cry all they want, from their new jobs doing something where their attitude doesn't matter so much.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You can say the same about all unions.

Police unions are the worst of them all.

I'll agree with that to a certain extent.
They have more power to disrupt American lives in the short term. Read into that what you will.
But as far as I'm concerned there should be no unions when it comes to public service and I'm not fond of unions in any capacity.

 

[OldLady]

I thought what he said makes a lot of sense. I didn't read it as a dismissal of racism. Just what focus reforms should take. You can't wave a wand and change a person's attitude about race. But I sure agree that when the PD knows who their racist cops are and they turn a blind eye to it, that has to stop. Yeah, that is a union problem that needs to be remedied but we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to unions either.

This can be an exciting time of change. I hope it's taken advantage of in a constructive way.

Police unions are corrupt from top to bottom. They aren't doing anyone any good.

I wouldn't know.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And if you did can you imagine what the atmosphere in the squad room would be like?

Yeah, I think you can change the culture in an institution and of course it would be for the better. The racists can cry all they want, from their new jobs doing something where their attitude doesn't matter so much.

You totally failed in your response.
And the rest is word salad....would you like some nuts on it?

 

[OldLady]

there should be no unions when it comes to public service

Why the distinction? Why is it okay for Ford workers to have a union but not teachers?

 

[OldLady]

And if you did can you imagine what the atmosphere in the squad room would be like?

Yeah, I think you can change the culture in an institution and of course it would be for the better. The racists can cry all they want, from their new jobs doing something where their attitude doesn't matter so much.

You totally failed in your response.
And the rest is word salad....would you like some nuts on it?

Well, we're even, because your response is, "That's too hard so we shouldn't bother to try." That to me is a total fail.

 

[TheGreatSatan]

Democrats are so anti cop and pro crime, they are having shows like Live PD, cops, paw patrol, and dog the bounty hunter.

Democrats will continue to ban shows until they are stood up to. Cops should refuse to work in Democrat cities, and businesses should only do business in Democrat cities at their own risk. No insurance company should insure anything in blue areas.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

there should be no unions when it comes to public service

Why the distinction? Why is it okay for Ford workers to have a union but not teachers?

Glad you asked OL.

Why you had to is a mystery to me though.
I know every aspect of your views when it comes to politics as I do for every daily poster here on USMB.How in the hell do you not know mine is another mystery.

But to answer the question you should already know the answer to?
Fuck all unions.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And if you did can you imagine what the atmosphere in the squad room would be like?

Yeah, I think you can change the culture in an institution and of course it would be for the better. The racists can cry all they want, from their new jobs doing something where their attitude doesn't matter so much.

You totally failed in your response.
And the rest is word salad....would you like some nuts on it?

Well, we're even, because your response is, "That's too hard so we shouldn't bother to try." That to me is a total fail.

Inform me of your allegations.

 

[task0778]

there should be no unions when it comes to public service

Why the distinction? Why is it okay for Ford workers to have a union but not teachers?

To me the distinction is that Ford workers have a private union that negotiates with Ford, a private company. But a teacher's union or a police union negotiates for our tax dollars at whatever gov't level they're at, and they can essentially buy off the negotiators with campaign donations, quid pro quo. The Ford workers however, cannot buy off the Ford company reps. Ford workers produce products that I as a consumer can buy or choose to buy another carmaker. But I can't go to another police dept or teachers union or any other public union, I got no choices. And they fight like hell to keep bad cops or bad teachers on the job, and that ain't good. If Ford doesn't want to fire a bad union employee, I don't much care. But if city won't fire a bad cop or a bad teacher, then we find ourselves in our current situation.