Black men started slavery; White male abolitionists effectively ended it.

[Slice of Pisces]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

Asclepias, I know that you sometimes have the capacity to communicate in a higher and more constructive manner than you often do on here, because we have discussed things in prior posts. Why is it that you bate and participate in the racial, sexist, and homophobic badgering that too often plagues what could otherwise be a positive place for discussion on race relations?

The name-calling and badgering simply destroys the positive direction the conversation could go. Insulting people directly does nothing to bring about positive change, and possibly perpetuates the biased issues that you or they may have.

I know it can be fun to banter and bicker with people just to get a reaction -- my friends do it all the time with each other in good-natured fun, but they are already good friends, and so nobody really gets hurt. On here it does nothing to help anything, and possibly exacerbates problems that need actual, serious discussion towards improvement.

I am still wishing that somehow this can actually be a place for positive discussion, but I may have to simply acquiesce that this is a place for people to get out their frustrations towards each other and talk smack to each other instead. For now, I will have to continue to participate from time to time on here until I find another place where real conversation can be had. The internet is a big place; its got to be available to us somewhere.

 

[Asclepias]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

Asclepias, I know that you sometimes have the capacity to communicate in a higher and more constructive manner than you often do on here, because we have discussed things in prior posts. Why is it that you bate and participate in the racial, sexist, and homophobic badgering that too often plagues what could otherwise be a positive place for discussion on race relations?

The name-calling and badgering simply destroys the positive direction the conversation could go. Insulting people directly does nothing to bring about positive change, and possibly perpetuates the biased issues that you or they may have.

I know it can be fun to banter and bicker with people just to get a reaction -- my friends do it all the time with each other in good-natured fun, but they are already good friends, and so nobody really gets hurt. On here it does nothing to help anything, and possibly exacerbates problems that need actual, serious discussion towards improvement.

Call me crazy but I have theory. You will never ever change anyones mind that wants to stick to their beliefs. People that want positive change come with the agenda of learning and discussing issues. Those people dont post racist comments because they have the intelligence to understand that will cause an issue. There are a group of posters on this board I consider to be here only to vent their fear of Black people. There are alot of these types of people on this forum. For those people I have no problem nor do I feel its wrong to mock and deride them while exposing their pathologies. If you note I will never start it but I will certainly finish it.

 

[katsteve2012]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

I read their response, so lets just call it like it is.

Squeezemerry does not possess the mental acuity to even remotely comprehend what was stated.

He has just recently progressed from assembling a few poorly punctuated, monosyllabic words to writing semi literate phrases, and including links with his racist posts.

Likely copied and pasted....but at least it is progress.

 

[mudwhistle]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

Asclepias, I know that you sometimes have the capacity to communicate in a higher and more constructive manner than you often do on here, because we have discussed things in prior posts. Why is it that you bate and participate in the racial, sexist, and homophobic badgering that too often plagues what could otherwise be a positive place for discussion on race relations?

The name-calling and badgering simply destroys the positive direction the conversation could go. Insulting people directly does nothing to bring about positive change, and possibly perpetuates the biased issues that you or they may have.

I know it can be fun to banter and bicker with people just to get a reaction -- my friends do it all the time with each other in good-natured fun, but they are already good friends, and so nobody really gets hurt. On here it does nothing to help anything, and possibly exacerbates problems that need actual, serious discussion towards improvement.

Call me crazy but I have theory. You will never ever change anyones mind that wants to stick to their beliefs. People that want positive change come with the agenda of learning and discussing issues. Those people dont post racist comments because they have the intelligence to understand that will cause an issue. There are a group of posters on this board I consider to be here only to vent their fear of Black people. There are alot of these types of people on this forum. For those people I have no problem nor do I feel its wrong to mock and deride them while exposing their pathologies. If you note I will never start it but I will certainly finish it.

Course all of the above could be just in your head, and you're just using it as an excuse for whatever bigotry you feel.

 

[Asclepias]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

Asclepias, I know that you sometimes have the capacity to communicate in a higher and more constructive manner than you often do on here, because we have discussed things in prior posts. Why is it that you bate and participate in the racial, sexist, and homophobic badgering that too often plagues what could otherwise be a positive place for discussion on race relations?

The name-calling and badgering simply destroys the positive direction the conversation could go. Insulting people directly does nothing to bring about positive change, and possibly perpetuates the biased issues that you or they may have.

I know it can be fun to banter and bicker with people just to get a reaction -- my friends do it all the time with each other in good-natured fun, but they are already good friends, and so nobody really gets hurt. On here it does nothing to help anything, and possibly exacerbates problems that need actual, serious discussion towards improvement.

Call me crazy but I have theory. You will never ever change anyones mind that wants to stick to their beliefs. People that want positive change come with the agenda of learning and discussing issues. Those people dont post racist comments because they have the intelligence to understand that will cause an issue. There are a group of posters on this board I consider to be here only to vent their fear of Black people. There are alot of these types of people on this forum. For those people I have no problem nor do I feel its wrong to mock and deride them while exposing their pathologies. If you note I will never start it but I will certainly finish it.

Course all of the above could be just in your head, and you're just using it as an excuse for whatever bigotry you feel.

Not really. Its pretty clear that when whites call you racist names or make racist jokes they are racists. If it was in my head I wouldnt be the only one mocking them. Even if I was the only one I dont consider group consensus the only method of reaching the truth.

 

[squeeze berry]

Good deflection so you wouldnt have to answer the question.

Let me see...would I rather be a slave belonging to a dude who came into my village and forcibly ripped me from my mother and family...or would I rather be a slave to a white girl?

Let me think...

Why would you rather be any kind of slave?

Really what the hell is this thread about?

Can we all agree slavery is bad?

Or is this just another stupid argument about who is more racist- blacks or whites?

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

white males the current oppressive force in America?

really?

please prove it

Squeeze Berry, I posted a reply, but it posted as a new post instead of replying directly to you. I hope it helps explain what I am trying to say.

you have supplied zero evidence

 

[Asclepias]

Let me see...would I rather be a slave belonging to a dude who came into my village and forcibly ripped me from my mother and family...or would I rather be a slave to a white girl?

Let me think...

Why would you rather be any kind of slave?

Really what the hell is this thread about?

Can we all agree slavery is bad?

Or is this just another stupid argument about who is more racist- blacks or whites?

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

white males the current oppressive force in America?

really?

please prove it

Squeeze Berry, I posted a reply, but it posted as a new post instead of replying directly to you. I hope it helps explain what I am trying to say.

you have supplied zero evidence

Translation.
"I'm afraid of Black people and pretty much nothing you say can cure that phobia."

 

[squeeze berry]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

cite one post where I blamed anyone for my "lot in life" except myself

my lot isn't all that bad BTW, you just make shit up

 

[squeeze berry]

Why would you rather be any kind of slave?

Really what the hell is this thread about?

Can we all agree slavery is bad?

Or is this just another stupid argument about who is more racist- blacks or whites?

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

white males the current oppressive force in America?

really?

please prove it

Squeeze Berry, I posted a reply, but it posted as a new post instead of replying directly to you. I hope it helps explain what I am trying to say.

you have supplied zero evidence

Translation.
"I'm afraid of Black people and pretty much nothing you say can cure that phobia."

makes shit up ^

 

[Asclepias]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

cite one post where I blamed anyone for my "lot in life" except myself

my lot isn't all that bad BTW, you just make shit up

Touched a nerve I see. You are obviously a loser that has as a buffer between him and suicide the belief that "at least I am better than a ******." Your posts on this board scream inferiority complex. Your lot is obviously terrible in life Of course you blame Black people for such a poor life.

 

[rdean]

Liberals and progressives ended slavery. Not right wing Confederate Conservatives.

what a surprise. Deany makes false comparisons

Republicans are today's Confederate Conservatives. Hadn't you heard?

 

[koshergrl]

Why would you rather be any kind of slave?

Really what the hell is this thread about?

Can we all agree slavery is bad?

Or is this just another stupid argument about who is more racist- blacks or whites?

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

white males the current oppressive force in America?

really?

please prove it

Squeeze Berry, I posted a reply, but it posted as a new post instead of replying directly to you. I hope it helps explain what I am trying to say.

you have supplied zero evidence

Translation.
"I'm afraid of Black people and pretty much nothing you say can cure that phobia."

We're only afraid of black people when they approach us at intersections, or walk towards our houses from the street.

I'm sure the ones that aren't criminal are really great people.

 

[Syriusly]

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

white males the current oppressive force in America?

really?

please prove it

Squeeze Berry, I posted a reply, but it posted as a new post instead of replying directly to you. I hope it helps explain what I am trying to say.

you have supplied zero evidence

Translation.
"I'm afraid of Black people and pretty much nothing you say can cure that phobia."

We're only afraid of black people when they approach us at intersections, or walk towards our houses from the street.

I'm sure the ones that aren't criminal are really great people.

And that pretty much is the Republican philosophy.

 

[Asclepias]

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

white males the current oppressive force in America?

really?

please prove it

Squeeze Berry, I posted a reply, but it posted as a new post instead of replying directly to you. I hope it helps explain what I am trying to say.

you have supplied zero evidence

Translation.
"I'm afraid of Black people and pretty much nothing you say can cure that phobia."

We're only afraid of black people when they approach us at intersections, or walk towards our houses from the street.

I'm sure the ones that aren't criminal are really great people.

Thanks for admitting your fear. However, I dont buy the "Blacks are criminals" excuse. I'm not afraid of whites no matter where I see them. I dont expect whites to shoot me at a movie theater or in a mall. I know all whites are not serial killers, drug addicts/dealers, and mass murderers. It has to be something more primordial with your fear.

 

[Porker]

We're only afraid of black people when they approach us at intersections, or walk towards our houses from the street.

I'm sure the ones that aren't criminal are really great people.

Except when it comes time to identify/testify those thugs involved in drive-by murders in the hood...even murders of babies and toddlers. Those really great people disappear in droves. They didn't see NOTHING, man.

 

[squeeze berry]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

cite one post where I blamed anyone for my "lot in life" except myself

my lot isn't all that bad BTW, you just make shit up

Touched a nerve I see. You are obviously a loser that has as a buffer between him and suicide the belief that "at least I am better than a ******." Your posts on this board scream inferiority complex. Your lot is obviously terrible in life Of course you blame Black people for such a poor life.

link to my blaming black people for my lot in life

link to my having a "poor life"

your posts on this board scream too high of an opinion of yourself

 

[Asclepias]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

cite one post where I blamed anyone for my "lot in life" except myself

my lot isn't all that bad BTW, you just make shit up

Touched a nerve I see. You are obviously a loser that has as a buffer between him and suicide the belief that "at least I am better than a ******." Your posts on this board scream inferiority complex. Your lot is obviously terrible in life Of course you blame Black people for such a poor life.

link to my blaming black people for my lot in life

link to my having a "poor life"

your posts on this board scream too high of an opinion of yourself

There are no links for you having a poor life. You arent famous or something. We know because you cant help but uplift yourself by attacking Black people. Its the hallmark of a perpetual loser. Everybody knows that.

 

[squeeze berry]

Liberals and progressives ended slavery. Not right wing Confederate Conservatives.

what a surprise. Deany makes false comparisons

Republicans are today's Confederate Conservatives. Hadn't you heard?

only from idiots such as yourself

 

[squeeze berry]

white males the current oppressive force in America?

really?

please prove it

Squeeze Berry, I posted a reply, but it posted as a new post instead of replying directly to you. I hope it helps explain what I am trying to say.

you have supplied zero evidence

Translation.
"I'm afraid of Black people and pretty much nothing you say can cure that phobia."

We're only afraid of black people when they approach us at intersections, or walk towards our houses from the street.

I'm sure the ones that aren't criminal are really great people.

Thanks for admitting your fear. However, I dont buy the "Blacks are criminals" excuse. I'm not afraid of whites no matter where I see them. I dont expect whites to shoot me at a movie theater or in a mall. I know all whites are not serial killers, drug addicts/dealers, and mass murderers. It has to be something more primordial with your fear.

white woman are targeted by black males for muggings, rape and murder.

can't blame white women for shooting first and asking questions later

survival instincts and all that

 

[squeeze berry]

This has to be a multiple-part answer, as the concept is indeed a complex one:

1. Not all white males actively participate in oppressive behavior, but they do still benefit from any oppressive aspects of the current system. (White females benefit as well, although not to the same extent, as gender oppression is very real also).

2. Denying that there are any oppressive forces in our current system passively supports the aspects that are still oppressive.

3. If anyone has the power to oppress others in our country, it would be the white male demographic because they are the ones who still hold the majority of the power.

4. Very importantly --- The above does state that this consideration should not be inclusive of ALL white males ---, which I am deducing you may be, and I am as well. That concept is part of what I am dealing with also. I understand the reality of who holds the power to oppress in our country from its origin to even now, and am actively against it, such as should be obvious from my posts. This does not stop people from targeting me with the same animosity as if I did not care at all, simply based on my identity at birth. Being defensive unfortunately does not help the matter either, because there should be no need for a non-oppressor to defend the oppressive forces...

So, I :

A. Admit the reality,

B. Don't feel guilty or ashamed of my birth,

C. Don't take it personal when people need to express anger concerning the reality that white, male oppression does still exist (even if it is not through me, not necessarily you, or even 50+ % of white males),

Being targeted for something I have not done feels unfair, of course --- and such an approach is the wrong way to fix the problem --- but being defensive for ALL white males is counterproductive too, and is why such prejudice is often held towards white males based on the assumption that they will identify with and defend the entire white, male population due to identity with it...

Again, its a complex issue that has no easy answer ... and no one I have talked to that has a problem with my birth identity has been able to propose a solution except that it needs to change (obviously), or that all white males should be hated and need to die (which is so extreme it defeats any positive steps that could be taken) ...

I understand why this concept could be angering ... it is frustrating ... but I am sure something can be done aside from perpetuating the anger, defensiveness, and/or hatred ... Currently, the only way I see to fix it is through peacemaking daily-interaction, active listening and empathizing without defensiveness, and the very few occasions where we are allowed to vote ...

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of like a 3-D painting, once you see it, it becomes clear, but otherwise there is too much going on to see what is really there...

Youre wasting your words with people like squeeze. He is too caught up with blaming Black people for his lot in life. He sees Black people as the boogeyman.

cite one post where I blamed anyone for my "lot in life" except myself

my lot isn't all that bad BTW, you just make shit up

Touched a nerve I see. You are obviously a loser that has as a buffer between him and suicide the belief that "at least I am better than a ******." Your posts on this board scream inferiority complex. Your lot is obviously terrible in life Of course you blame Black people for such a poor life.

link to my blaming black people for my lot in life

link to my having a "poor life"

your posts on this board scream too high of an opinion of yourself

There are no links for you having a poor life. You arent famous or something. We know because you cant help but uplift yourself by attacking Black people. Its the hallmark of a perpetual loser. Everybody knows that.

you don't know everybody, nor myself