Black men started slavery; White male abolitionists effectively ended it.

[jon_berzerk]

You keep avoiding my question. Can you answer it?

so you didnt want the slaves counted in the census

So you wanted people enslaved?

i dont

however you seem to be under the impression that the slaves

should not have been counted in the census

You are correct. The enslaved should not have been counted as 3/5 of a person. They should have been freed immediately and counted as a whole person.

So should Indians who are less than 30 percent Indian be counted as Indians?

You do realize that many tribes consider only their own tribe to be *people*...right?

Indians not taxed did not get counted in the census

that turned out real well for them

,

 

[koshergrl]

You keep saying that as a way to avoid questions. It's kind of weird and fakey-like.

You keep claiming you'd rather be a goat fuckers sex slave. Thats kind of weird to me.

you would never say this to KG in a biker bar

He has a hatred of white women, he can't help it.

my complaint is what would happen to him if he insulted you around us ???

Nothing. You would have just turned red.

You would never in a million years say anything like the garbage you spew on here to the face of a white woman. Ever. You'll say it online, and you'll say it with your buddies on the street corner when people walk by (if you can ever bring the conversation on the street corner to this level, which I seriously doubt).

But in a bar, engaging in conversation with a mixed crowd that includes white men, where you don't have them outnumbered, or on the street, where you'd be identified as a pig?

Never.

 

[Asclepias]

You keep claiming you'd rather be a goat fuckers sex slave. Thats kind of weird to me.

you would never say this to KG in a biker bar

He has a hatred of white women, he can't help it.

my complaint is what would happen to him if he insulted you around us ???

Nothing. You would have just turned red.

You would never in a million years say anything like the garbage you spew on here to the face of a white woman. Ever.

I know that. I would say it to crack hoe like you though.

White men wouldnt even think about doing anything. Been there done that.

 

[Slice of Pisces]

I brought it up for discussion, because that is what this discussion board is for. This isn't a conversation one can have in normal everyday life without the conversation devolving into snide comments, battles between superiority complexes, or someone getting so angry they want to hurt someone.

I don't see how any form of slavery can be justified, although that seems to be a common argument that old-school slavery was okay and New World slavery was the worst form of it. Leave it to Europeans to take something as bad as slavery and make it even worse.

If we all started in the 'Cradle of Civilization,' which may in fact be revisionist history as well, then yes black people started civilization, and the ancestors of all races are the same ancestors( and Asians too? probably not, there were likely multiple civilizations started at different places in the world from different beginnings of life. Adam and Eve are a fairy tale to explain an ethnocentric world view of the 'Genesis' ) . Maybe the people who became 'white' due to evolution of pigmentation via differences in climate and amount of sun were going North to get away from the oppressive cultures that enslaved other races in the 'cradle of civilization.'

Why was it okay for Egyptians to build their mighty empire on the backs of 'indentured servants'?

Why was it okay to force people into indentured servitude to begin with?

The responsibility for slavery is most likely shared by all cultural groups until recent history, so why make it out like some forms were acceptable, when all forms of slavery are abhorrent?

This is not a hurrah only for white males. Its good to acknowledge that there are people of all ethnicities and both genders that fought against it. When I state that if it was not for white male abolitionists slavery would still exist, I say that due to the fact that at that time, due to the racist power structure of America that only let white men vote, they were the only ones who had the political pull to actually change the oppressive laws.

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity. I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

First you said the bible was a fairy tale then you said the Egyptians used slaves? What do you mean by that? We still have slavery here in the US and protected by the constitution. When looking at the different forms of slavery throughout history the one thought up by whites in the form of chattel slavery was by far the worst. That doesnt make other forms of slavery ok but you keep forgetting the fact that there was no dehumanizing factor until chattel slavery. Thats the huge difference.

A lot of the Bible is accepted as a telling of history, and thus not considered myth, albeit an ethnocentric telling of history. There are also many other powerful myths presented throughout the Bible, alongside semi-realistic accounts of history. Adam and Eve is one part of that, the Creation story, which in all cultures is essentially a fairy tale. I stated that to support the idea that there were likely multiple places where civilizations began.

The following paragraph however may have been what I was wanting to get at from the beginning, without realizing it from the starting point. Can I get your opinion on this without digression?:

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity? I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

I'm not a turn the other cheek type of guy. It takes a special person to go through what King went through. I'm fine as long as there is no enemy within reach. I can be peaceful and all that good stuff. When an enemy steps into view my intent is to destroy them. I dont know what this has to do with your OP but there it is.

Dr. King was the leader of all those who were striving for social, economic, and human equality, but he was not the only one who suffered through it. All of us who believe love is the way to peace are still struggling through it today, much like he and those in the movement of his time did (which again, included people from all races and both genders). I don't believe hating and blaming for the past can change the future into where we need to be going. I'm glad this discussion board exist for people to get their thoughts out. We all have the ability to strive toward fulfilling that dream, but it won't happen if people decide hatred and destruction of their chosen 'enemy' makes more sense.

Does anyone on here know of other places online where positive discussion toward positive change takes place? I may have metaphorically tried to influence peace in the middle of a war-zone on here. I just want the conversation towards peace to be perpetuated, and I don't know where that would be best without it seeming like 'preaching to the choir.'

 

[koshergrl]

you would never say this to KG in a biker bar

He has a hatred of white women, he can't help it.

my complaint is what would happen to him if he insulted you around us ???

Nothing. You would have just turned red.

You would never in a million years say anything like the garbage you spew on here to the face of a white woman. Ever.

I know that. I would say it to crack hoe like you though.

Sure you would, lol.

 

[Asclepias]

He has a hatred of white women, he can't help it.

my complaint is what would happen to him if he insulted you around us ???

Nothing. You would have just turned red.

You would never in a million years say anything like the garbage you spew on here to the face of a white woman. Ever.

I know that. I would say it to crack hoe like you though.

Sure you would, lol.

Yes I sure would.

 

[koshergrl]

my complaint is what would happen to him if he insulted you around us ???

Nothing. You would have just turned red.

You would never in a million years say anything like the garbage you spew on here to the face of a white woman. Ever.

I know that. I would say it to crack hoe like you though.

Sure you would, lol.

Yes I sure would.

You betcha!

 

[katsteve2012]

Not really. They had their human rights removed by whites which is the definition of chattel slavery. Why did you whites have to do that being so civilized and all? BTW you never answered the question. Would you rather be a goat fuckers sex toy while chained in a ship on the way to the US or chiliing in Africa serving tea? Please dont avoid the question.

Wow. Just. Wow.

Anyway. Serious, twisted racist hater revealed ^^^^^^^

Your avoidance issues are starting to become the stuff of legend. Which is it? The goat ****** using you for sperm depository or serving iced tea in Africa?

I'm sorry, you aren't making sense. But you seem very, very angry. Do all women make you angry, or just white ones?

Of course. I should have known another deflection.

So white women evoke rage in you? And you're proud of that?

That's interesting. Albeit creepy.

Asclepias gets tough with a white woman on the internet

LOL

Yes. He has put you in your place on a number of occasions.

 

[katsteve2012]

I brought it up for discussion, because that is what this discussion board is for. This isn't a conversation one can have in normal everyday life without the conversation devolving into snide comments, battles between superiority complexes, or someone getting so angry they want to hurt someone.

I don't see how any form of slavery can be justified, although that seems to be a common argument that old-school slavery was okay and New World slavery was the worst form of it. Leave it to Europeans to take something as bad as slavery and make it even worse.

If we all started in the 'Cradle of Civilization,' which may in fact be revisionist history as well, then yes black people started civilization, and the ancestors of all races are the same ancestors( and Asians too? probably not, there were likely multiple civilizations started at different places in the world from different beginnings of life. Adam and Eve are a fairy tale to explain an ethnocentric world view of the 'Genesis' ) . Maybe the people who became 'white' due to evolution of pigmentation via differences in climate and amount of sun were going North to get away from the oppressive cultures that enslaved other races in the 'cradle of civilization.'

Why was it okay for Egyptians to build their mighty empire on the backs of 'indentured servants'?

Why was it okay to force people into indentured servitude to begin with?

The responsibility for slavery is most likely shared by all cultural groups until recent history, so why make it out like some forms were acceptable, when all forms of slavery are abhorrent?

This is not a hurrah only for white males. Its good to acknowledge that there are people of all ethnicities and both genders that fought against it. When I state that if it was not for white male abolitionists slavery would still exist, I say that due to the fact that at that time, due to the racist power structure of America that only let white men vote, they were the only ones who had the political pull to actually change the oppressive laws.

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity. I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

First you said the bible was a fairy tale then you said the Egyptians used slaves? What do you mean by that? We still have slavery here in the US and protected by the constitution. When looking at the different forms of slavery throughout history the one thought up by whites in the form of chattel slavery was by far the worst. That doesnt make other forms of slavery ok but you keep forgetting the fact that there was no dehumanizing factor until chattel slavery. Thats the huge difference.

A lot of the Bible is accepted as a telling of history, and thus not considered myth, albeit an ethnocentric telling of history. There are also many other powerful myths presented throughout the Bible, alongside semi-realistic accounts of history. Adam and Eve is one part of that, the Creation story, which in all cultures is essentially a fairy tale. I stated that to support the idea that there were likely multiple places where civilizations began.

The following paragraph however may have been what I was wanting to get at from the beginning, without realizing it from the starting point. Can I get your opinion on this without digression?:

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity? I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

I'm not a turn the other cheek type of guy. It takes a special person to go through what King went through. I'm fine as long as there is no enemy within reach. I can be peaceful and all that good stuff. When an enemy steps into view my intent is to destroy them. I dont know what this has to do with your OP but there it is.

Dr. King was the leader of all those who were striving for social, economic, and human equality, but he was not the only one who suffered through it. All of us who believe love is the way to peace are still struggling through it today, much like he and those in the movement of his time did (which again, included people from all races and both genders). I don't believe hating and blaming for the past can change the future into where we need to be going. I'm glad this discussion board exist for people to get their thoughts out. We all have the ability to strive toward fulfilling that dream, but it won't happen if people decide hatred and destruction of their chosen 'enemy' makes more sense.

Does anyone on here know of other places online where positive discussion toward positive change takes place? I may have metaphorically tried to influence peace in the middle of a war-zone on here. I just want the conversation towards peace to be perpetuated, and I don't know where that would be best without it seeming like 'preaching to the choir.'

How does one "influence peace" with an opening statement that "Black men started slavery and the persistence of white men ended it"?

Truth be told, both sides had a hand in starting and ending it in this country, with the primary driver for ending it being preserving the union. And there was another side that fought valiantly to keep the institution of slavery intact.

The whole thing was more about business than it was about humanity. If it had been about humanity, then Jim Crow laws never would have been introduced practically right after slavery ended and remained intact until 1965 almost 100 years later.

Not asking for an answer. Just something for you to ponder on your next "peacemaking" endeavor. That aside, this is a good forum that a friend recommended to me .

World Peace Forum - Home

 

[Asclepias]

I brought it up for discussion, because that is what this discussion board is for. This isn't a conversation one can have in normal everyday life without the conversation devolving into snide comments, battles between superiority complexes, or someone getting so angry they want to hurt someone.

I don't see how any form of slavery can be justified, although that seems to be a common argument that old-school slavery was okay and New World slavery was the worst form of it. Leave it to Europeans to take something as bad as slavery and make it even worse.

If we all started in the 'Cradle of Civilization,' which may in fact be revisionist history as well, then yes black people started civilization, and the ancestors of all races are the same ancestors( and Asians too? probably not, there were likely multiple civilizations started at different places in the world from different beginnings of life. Adam and Eve are a fairy tale to explain an ethnocentric world view of the 'Genesis' ) . Maybe the people who became 'white' due to evolution of pigmentation via differences in climate and amount of sun were going North to get away from the oppressive cultures that enslaved other races in the 'cradle of civilization.'

Why was it okay for Egyptians to build their mighty empire on the backs of 'indentured servants'?

Why was it okay to force people into indentured servitude to begin with?

The responsibility for slavery is most likely shared by all cultural groups until recent history, so why make it out like some forms were acceptable, when all forms of slavery are abhorrent?

This is not a hurrah only for white males. Its good to acknowledge that there are people of all ethnicities and both genders that fought against it. When I state that if it was not for white male abolitionists slavery would still exist, I say that due to the fact that at that time, due to the racist power structure of America that only let white men vote, they were the only ones who had the political pull to actually change the oppressive laws.

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity. I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

First you said the bible was a fairy tale then you said the Egyptians used slaves? What do you mean by that? We still have slavery here in the US and protected by the constitution. When looking at the different forms of slavery throughout history the one thought up by whites in the form of chattel slavery was by far the worst. That doesnt make other forms of slavery ok but you keep forgetting the fact that there was no dehumanizing factor until chattel slavery. Thats the huge difference.

A lot of the Bible is accepted as a telling of history, and thus not considered myth, albeit an ethnocentric telling of history. There are also many other powerful myths presented throughout the Bible, alongside semi-realistic accounts of history. Adam and Eve is one part of that, the Creation story, which in all cultures is essentially a fairy tale. I stated that to support the idea that there were likely multiple places where civilizations began.

The following paragraph however may have been what I was wanting to get at from the beginning, without realizing it from the starting point. Can I get your opinion on this without digression?:

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity? I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

I'm not a turn the other cheek type of guy. It takes a special person to go through what King went through. I'm fine as long as there is no enemy within reach. I can be peaceful and all that good stuff. When an enemy steps into view my intent is to destroy them. I dont know what this has to do with your OP but there it is.

Dr. King was the leader of all those who were striving for social, economic, and human equality, but he was not the only one who suffered through it. All of us who believe love is the way to peace are still struggling through it today, much like he and those in the movement of his time did (which again, included people from all races and both genders). I don't believe hating and blaming for the past can change the future into where we need to be going. I'm glad this discussion board exist for people to get their thoughts out. We all have the ability to strive toward fulfilling that dream, but it won't happen if people decide hatred and destruction of their chosen 'enemy' makes more sense.

Does anyone on here know of other places online where positive discussion toward positive change takes place? I may have metaphorically tried to influence peace in the middle of a war-zone on here. I just want the conversation towards peace to be perpetuated, and I don't know where that would be best without it seeming like 'preaching to the choir.'

I dont get how you influence peace or encourage positive discussion by claiming Blacks started slavery and whites ended it? Thats patently false. Chattel slavery in the US was started by whites not Blacks. It was never truly ended as slavery is still legal here in the US. Even if the wording of the amendment did end slavery that was accomplished by both Black and whites.

 

[Asclepias]

Asslicker gets tough with a white woman on the internet

LOL

Youre not a woman. Youre a cross dresser. Big difference.

 

[katsteve2012]

I brought it up for discussion, because that is what this discussion board is for. This isn't a conversation one can have in normal everyday life without the conversation devolving into snide comments, battles between superiority complexes, or someone getting so angry they want to hurt someone.

I don't see how any form of slavery can be justified, although that seems to be a common argument that old-school slavery was okay and New World slavery was the worst form of it. Leave it to Europeans to take something as bad as slavery and make it even worse.

If we all started in the 'Cradle of Civilization,' which may in fact be revisionist history as well, then yes black people started civilization, and the ancestors of all races are the same ancestors( and Asians too? probably not, there were likely multiple civilizations started at different places in the world from different beginnings of life. Adam and Eve are a fairy tale to explain an ethnocentric world view of the 'Genesis' ) . Maybe the people who became 'white' due to evolution of pigmentation via differences in climate and amount of sun were going North to get away from the oppressive cultures that enslaved other races in the 'cradle of civilization.'

Why was it okay for Egyptians to build their mighty empire on the backs of 'indentured servants'?

Why was it okay to force people into indentured servitude to begin with?

The responsibility for slavery is most likely shared by all cultural groups until recent history, so why make it out like some forms were acceptable, when all forms of slavery are abhorrent?

This is not a hurrah only for white males. Its good to acknowledge that there are people of all ethnicities and both genders that fought against it. When I state that if it was not for white male abolitionists slavery would still exist, I say that due to the fact that at that time, due to the racist power structure of America that only let white men vote, they were the only ones who had the political pull to actually change the oppressive laws.

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity. I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

First you said the bible was a fairy tale then you said the Egyptians used slaves? What do you mean by that? We still have slavery here in the US and protected by the constitution. When looking at the different forms of slavery throughout history the one thought up by whites in the form of chattel slavery was by far the worst. That doesnt make other forms of slavery ok but you keep forgetting the fact that there was no dehumanizing factor until chattel slavery. Thats the huge difference.

A lot of the Bible is accepted as a telling of history, and thus not considered myth, albeit an ethnocentric telling of history. There are also many other powerful myths presented throughout the Bible, alongside semi-realistic accounts of history. Adam and Eve is one part of that, the Creation story, which in all cultures is essentially a fairy tale. I stated that to support the idea that there were likely multiple places where civilizations began.

The following paragraph however may have been what I was wanting to get at from the beginning, without realizing it from the starting point. Can I get your opinion on this without digression?:

Its very easy for a lot of people to hate, and that hate goes to the closest available target that resembles their idea of their enemy. Is it really that hard to love and understand commonalities of humanity? I wish the momentum and scope of Dr. King's dream had not died along with him. There were those close to him that could have carried that torch onwards, but everything seems to have devolved into simplistic easy forms of hate for most people again. We need another leader in this world to continue the dream of Dr. King. Would you, or do you, join in carrying on the dream and bringing about the reality of his Beloved Community?

I'm not a turn the other cheek type of guy. It takes a special person to go through what King went through. I'm fine as long as there is no enemy within reach. I can be peaceful and all that good stuff. When an enemy steps into view my intent is to destroy them. I dont know what this has to do with your OP but there it is.

Dr. King was the leader of all those who were striving for social, economic, and human equality, but he was not the only one who suffered through it. All of us who believe love is the way to peace are still struggling through it today, much like he and those in the movement of his time did (which again, included people from all races and both genders). I don't believe hating and blaming for the past can change the future into where we need to be going. I'm glad this discussion board exist for people to get their thoughts out. We all have the ability to strive toward fulfilling that dream, but it won't happen if people decide hatred and destruction of their chosen 'enemy' makes more sense.

Does anyone on here know of other places online where positive discussion toward positive change takes place? I may have metaphorically tried to influence peace in the middle of a war-zone on here. I just want the conversation towards peace to be perpetuated, and I don't know where that would be best without it seeming like 'preaching to the choir.'

I dont get how you influence peace or encourage positive discussion by claiming Blacks started slavery and whites ended it? Thats patently false. Chattel slavery in the US was started by whites not Blacks. It was never truly ended as slavery is still legal here in the US. Even if the wording of the amendment did end slavery that was accomplished by both Black and whites.

Asslicker gets tough with a white woman on the internet

LOL

Youre not a woman. Youre a cross dresser. Big difference.

Lol..."Boy George".

 

[Slice of Pisces]

asclepias explains the good slavery over the bad slavery --LOL

Yeah. The one whites pushed made you an animal with no rights. The "good" slavery you remained a human. Which one would you rather be involved in as slave?

at best you are a joke

--LOL

Good deflection so you wouldnt have to answer the question.

Let me see...would I rather be a slave belonging to a dude who came into my village and forcibly ripped me from my mother and family...or would I rather be a slave to a white girl?

Let me think...

Why would you rather be any kind of slave?

Really what the hell is this thread about?

Can we all agree slavery is bad?

Or is this just another stupid argument about who is more racist- blacks or whites?

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

 

[Syriusly]

Yeah. The one whites pushed made you an animal with no rights. The "good" slavery you remained a human. Which one would you rather be involved in as slave?

at best you are a joke

--LOL

Good deflection so you wouldnt have to answer the question.

Let me see...would I rather be a slave belonging to a dude who came into my village and forcibly ripped me from my mother and family...or would I rather be a slave to a white girl?

Let me think...

Why would you rather be any kind of slave?

Really what the hell is this thread about?

Can we all agree slavery is bad?

Or is this just another stupid argument about who is more racist- blacks or whites?

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

Okay- two things- first of all- please use breaks in your post- it makes a bigger post easier to read.

Secondly, your elaboration helps- but I think that your initial post made opposite presumptions that were overly broad and that is what i responded to.

I am opposed to any rational which presumptively judges people based upon either their race- or the history of what one race did to another.

I had to look up what HBCU means, and certainly I have never attended one- I think I was on the campus of Spellman once and thats the closest I have been. IF that is the message that is taught there, well that is as wrong as the messages that everything is the fault of African Americans.

This thread rapidly devolved- as such threads usually do- into personal sniping based upon ideological partisanship.

But can we agree that slavery is bad- regardless of the form?
That slavery in the United States was bad, and that is the slavery our country has responsibility for? That we have to acknowledge that slavery was once a legally and 'morally' acceptable institution in the United States, and that slavery had affects that endure to this day?
And that there were whites and blacks, men and women, Christians and non-Christians, who fought to end slavery- and that is a good thing?

 

[Slice of Pisces]

at best you are a joke

--LOL

Good deflection so you wouldnt have to answer the question.

Let me see...would I rather be a slave belonging to a dude who came into my village and forcibly ripped me from my mother and family...or would I rather be a slave to a white girl?

Let me think...

Why would you rather be any kind of slave?

Really what the hell is this thread about?

Can we all agree slavery is bad?

Or is this just another stupid argument about who is more racist- blacks or whites?

Hey, Syriusly. Maybe the title of the thread was a poor choice. These thoughts have come up in my head recently because I attend an HBCU and it is not only acceptable, but almost required that all students of color, as well as white females if they don't want to be targeted too, should hate and distrust white males (ALL of them), or you get ostracized or worse. The main argument for this is based on slavery. The fact that there have been white males of 'good conscience' throughout history that opposed oppression is brushed aside in favor of promoting further discord and hatred towards white males, which is indeed the demographic of the current oppressive force in America, but should not be so readily applied to all white males. It is actually that philosophy that white racists and supremacists use to defend their oppressive stance on the matter. I understand the reasoning, however inappropriately all-encompassing, for such views as exists at my HBCU, and I have learned not to take things personally, and I know its not me that they are actually mad at, but rather the projected idea that my presence presents to the other students. I still wish to push in favor of social equality and harmony which cannot happen when hate binds and blinds people from the path to such a goal. I wanted to get thoughts on this matter, so I thought I would try to see what alternative views might exist aside from the 'required' view and propaganda at my school . This might not be the best place for such information gathering, but I don't know of any other places yet to talk about it openly without a hardline perspective that prevents real progress.

Okay- two things- first of all- please use breaks in your post- it makes a bigger post easier to read.

Secondly, your elaboration helps- but I think that your initial post made opposite presumptions that were overly broad and that is what i responded to.

I am opposed to any rational which presumptively judges people based upon either their race- or the history of what one race did to another.

I had to look up what HBCU means, and certainly I have never attended one- I think I was on the campus of Spellman once and thats the closest I have been. IF that is the message that is taught there, well that is as wrong as the messages that everything is the fault of African Americans.

This thread rapidly devolved- as such threads usually do- into personal sniping based upon ideological partisanship.

But can we agree that slavery is bad- regardless of the form?
That slavery in the United States was bad, and that is the slavery our country has responsibility for? That we have to acknowledge that slavery was once a legally and 'morally' acceptable institution in the United States, and that slavery had affects that endure to this day?
And that there were whites and blacks, men and women, Christians and non-Christians, who fought to end slavery- and that is a good thing?

Breaks in the post are good, agreed. And yes, prejudice begets prejudice unless someone breaks the cycle through their own will. Many friends have told me that I am too idealistic; however, most of them ignore social injustice and just live out their lives trying to be as happy as they personally can.

Social injustice often makes one unhappy, and thus they see it as someone else's problem that they cannot do anything about. They might be right that there is nothing they can do about it --- they aren't allowed to join the movement, and they aren't the one's causing the problem directly --- so they just sweep it under the rug, so to speak.

Being an advocate for social justice may be bad for my health, and hurt my heart when nothing moves forward and keeps sliding backwards, but my spirit cannot be fulfilled while ignoring the problems.

 

[ninja007]

A serious quandary that seems overlooked in modern sociopolitical thought:

Slavery was started by blacks a very long time ago. It continued for millennia. Effectively, if it was not for 'good' white male abolitionists, it would not have ended in America.

Why is it considered okay for blacks to have enslaved every race imaginable back to the beginning of time?

and

Why can't people of color admit that it was ended because of the persistent struggles for centuries or even millennia politically and socially of white men who abhorred the institution that black men started way back then?

Not being facetious. I would like to hear a good logical response to this that doesn't have to delve into simply insulting others for their race.

There is a difference in the slavery called chattel slavery and the slavery that was practiced by Blacks in Africa. The chattel slavery was the province of whites. The slavery practised in Africa was more along the lines of indentured servitude. There is a reason its called slavery. Whites practiced it on other whites. Its called "slave" after the Slavic people.

asclepias explains the good slavery over the bad slavery --LOL

Yeah. The slavery whites pushed made you an animal with no rights. The "good" slavery you remained a human. Which one would you rather be involved in as slave?

the blacks love being on the dem plantation...

 

[Asclepias]

A serious quandary that seems overlooked in modern sociopolitical thought:

Slavery was started by blacks a very long time ago. It continued for millennia. Effectively, if it was not for 'good' white male abolitionists, it would not have ended in America.

Why is it considered okay for blacks to have enslaved every race imaginable back to the beginning of time?

and

Why can't people of color admit that it was ended because of the persistent struggles for centuries or even millennia politically and socially of white men who abhorred the institution that black men started way back then?

Not being facetious. I would like to hear a good logical response to this that doesn't have to delve into simply insulting others for their race.

There is a difference in the slavery called chattel slavery and the slavery that was practiced by Blacks in Africa. The chattel slavery was the province of whites. The slavery practised in Africa was more along the lines of indentured servitude. There is a reason its called slavery. Whites practiced it on other whites. Its called "slave" after the Slavic people.

asclepias explains the good slavery over the bad slavery --LOL

Yeah. The slavery whites pushed made you an animal with no rights. The "good" slavery you remained a human. Which one would you rather be involved in as slave?

the blacks love being on the dem plantation...

You must be a loyal party guy. No wonder you cant get a woman. You cant even think for yourself.

 

[Syriusly]

A serious quandary that seems overlooked in modern sociopolitical thought:

Slavery was started by blacks a very long time ago. It continued for millennia. Effectively, if it was not for 'good' white male abolitionists, it would not have ended in America.

Why is it considered okay for blacks to have enslaved every race imaginable back to the beginning of time?

and

Why can't people of color admit that it was ended because of the persistent struggles for centuries or even millennia politically and socially of white men who abhorred the institution that black men started way back then?

Not being facetious. I would like to hear a good logical response to this that doesn't have to delve into simply insulting others for their race.

There is a difference in the slavery called chattel slavery and the slavery that was practiced by Blacks in Africa. The chattel slavery was the province of whites. The slavery practised in Africa was more along the lines of indentured servitude. There is a reason its called slavery. Whites practiced it on other whites. Its called "slave" after the Slavic people.

asclepias explains the good slavery over the bad slavery --LOL

Yeah. The slavery whites pushed made you an animal with no rights. The "good" slavery you remained a human. Which one would you rather be involved in as slave?

the blacks love being on the dem plantation...

That is what old white guys keep telling everyone.

 

[Porker]

Dont tell everyone you are uneducated. The Arabs sold Black slaves to the europeans and the europeans sold white slaves to the Arabs before any Black Africans sold anything to anyone. How do you think the Portugese knew to sail down to W.Africa to cut out the middleman?

That's because I had NOTHING to do with the arrival of the first slaves in the USA as it was the British American government in the United States which brought their slaves with them to the New World from England. After that the black WEST African slave traders continued to sell their wares to European dealers. The USA as an original destination was only about 3% of the world's African slave trade, if that much.

Blame the Brits for your slave heritage. You ended up being one of the lucky ones in the USA.

 

[Asclepias]

Dont tell everyone you are uneducated. The Arabs sold Black slaves to the europeans and the europeans sold white slaves to the Arabs before any Black Africans sold anything to anyone. How do you think the Portugese knew to sail down to W.Africa to cut out the middleman?

That's because I had NOTHING to do with the arrival of the first slaves in the USA as it was the British American government in the United States which brought their slaves with them to the New World from England. After that the black WEST African slave traders continued to sell their wares to European dealers. The USA as an original destination was only about 3% of the world's African slave trade, if that much.

Blame the Brits for your slave heritage. You ended up being one of the lucky ones in the USA.

Who said you had anything to do with it? If you deflect any harder you are going to end up talking about going water skiing. Stop trying to distance yourself. You look extremely guilt ridden when you keep putting yourself in the mix. You werent even born. Stay on topic.