Black Friday - 12/12

[DavidS]

Watch out below... the Senate is about to reject the auto bailout bill. This could be the worst crash of the year or ever.

 

[tigerbob]

Watch out below... the Senate is about to reject the auto bailout bill. This could be the worst crash of the year or ever.

Let's hear it for the Senate.

 

[DavidS]

Dow futures are down 311. If they fall to 350, futures trading will be suspended.

 

[editec]

Obviously the market isn't thrilled when they learn that a whole lot of consumers won't be consuming very much for the next few quarters..if then

The vicious cyclon will start shredding this economy in a flurry of pink slips over the American midwest.

It virtually assures us that Obama and the Dems will begin spending money on infrastruture projects and whatnot.

I suspect it will take far more money injected into the system by other means, to jump start the economy, if Chrysler, GM go down, than it might otherwise.

Two millions lost jobs and their lost multiplier effect? That's going to devaste the midwest.

Well...at least there's no inflation, right now.

That'll give the government leeway to spend money like drunken sailors.

That has to be done folks.

No choice.

There's not enough money in the economic bloodstream

These real estate losses, and the stock market are like arterial economic bleeding.

Those loses are sucking the life's blood out of people's home economies, and the Republic is going into collective economic shock because of it.

Families are like the cells of the social organizm. When enough of them are bleeding the circulatory system collapses.

Dr Keynes proscribes a D5 & W solution of massive government spending to save the patient.

No rise in taxes, though. That would be a big mistake. There's the silver lining in this mess for many of you, I think.

Spending money on health care might be one alternative method to injecting the system with dough. That's ironic.

Greening the auto industry another. Improving energy grid another.

Revamping education system and retraining workers more great investments, too.

They'll completely neglect to change the trade laws as I would, I suspect..

The Repubicans would bring up the Smoot-Hawley canard and of course the Dems will fold like a cardtable under pressure.

Going to be interesting to see this all play out.

Horrible for some of us, but interesting from a historic point of view.

The economy is like a car wreck.

I just can't look away.

 

[NOBama]

Watch out below... the Senate is about to reject the auto bailout bill. This could be the worst crash of the year or ever.

It don't look like the market is taking the news too badly, but then again, there's still another 1:45 to go. Damn glad I decided to stay out this AM because I would have went long in SKF.

 

[DavidS]

It don't look like the market is taking the news too badly, but then again, there's still another 1:45 to go. Damn glad I decided to stay out this AM because I would have went long in SKF.

I'm done predicting the market this year. GM was down to $2.60 and it's closing out at $3.92, only down 20 cents for the day, or 4.85%. I can't believe George Bush saved Detroit.

Still needs to be seen -- all I've heard is that the WH and Treasury will "consider" it.

 

[NOBama]

I'm done predicting the market this year. GM was down to $2.60 and it's closing out at $3.92, only down 20 cents for the day, or 4.85%. I can't believe George Bush saved Detroit.

Still needs to be seen -- all I've heard is that the WH and Treasury will "consider" it.

Yup, the talking heads are already predicting that the Admin will find a way to use TARP money for the auto bailout.

Meanwhile, I just saw this on MarketWatch:


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- The Canadian government will provide General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. , and Chrysler LLC with CA$3.5 billion ($2.8 billion) to help shore up the Canadian auto sector, CTV News reported late Friday on its Web site. The support falls short of the CA$7 billion the automakers requested, the news agency said.

Now I hear rumors that they are going to hold-up on the bailout money for Canadian Operations unless the US gov gives-up the 14B$. What a mess.

 

[DavidS]

Yup, the talking heads are already predicting that the Admin will find a way to use TARP money for the auto bailout.

Meanwhile, I just saw this on MarketWatch:


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- The Canadian government will provide General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. , and Chrysler LLC with CA$3.5 billion ($2.8 billion) to help shore up the Canadian auto sector, CTV News reported late Friday on its Web site. The support falls short of the CA$7 billion the automakers requested, the news agency said.

Now I hear rumors that they are going to hold-up on the bailout money for Canadian Operations unless the US gov gives-up the 14B$. What a mess.

Well fuck this! Canadian taxpayers are shoring up American corporations - why do I need to pay a dime now? GM has $3 billion extra - they don't need my money.

 

[Toro]

I bought the open.

 

[NOBama]

I bought the open.

Congrats, your up nicely already!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

GM needs to go. We should not be taxed to pay people who get twice the money most of us do, to produce shoddy cars we don't want.

GM has shed about 60% of itself from the last big bailout discussion in late 79. We didn't miss it. We didn't even see it go.

If the rest of it vanishes, it will just re adjust.


Bear in mind, those of you who want to prop up this dead and stinking dinosaur, that it will go sooner or later. Sooner will make the pain easier than later. What we are doing now is pouring syrup on an abscessed tooth. it will sooth now, only to make the problem a great deal worse.

 

[alan1]

On a micro-economic scale, lets just look at the auto industry in the US.
Currently we have the big 3 US automakers manufacturing cars in the US. We also have plants for Nissan, Toyota, BMW and other "foreign" manufacturers within the US. (I don't know what the real numbers are, so all my numbers are just made up). Let's suppose that the demand for cars in the US is 10 million cars a year. Now, lets suppose that GM makes 3 million of those cars. Now, lets suppose that GM goes out of business. Now, the demand for 10 million cars a year hasn't changed. We just have one less manufacturer making cars. What will happen is that the remaining auto manufactures will increase their output to meet that demand. It might be Toyota and Nissan plants that do it, but it's still Toyota and Nissan plants in the US building those cars. It's still American workers employed and building those cars, just in a different factory and under a different name.
I know this is a pretty simplistic example and that there are a lot of other factors that would come into play here, but basically, things wouldn't really change that much.

For a real life example of how things work, you can look right here to the southern US. The southeast US used to be a huge manufacturer of textiles. Many of those textile companies started manufacturing overseas because the labor was cheaper. They closed plants throughout the southeast US. Once that happened, there was temporarily recession like conditions for the southeast. Unemployed factory workers from the textile industry. Look what happened. BMW opened up a plant in South Carolina, Nissan opened up a plant in Tennessee, Toyota opened up a plant in Kentucky. All 3 companies saw a willing and able workforce that could help them to be profitable and avoid the expense of transporting cars across the ocean.
If GM goes belly-up, it will hurt economically for the short term, but the demand for cars will not change, so somebody will fill the gap and employ that skilled and able workforce.