Bill Would Require State Approval to Homeschool

[initforme]

There are advantages and disadvantages to any method of education. My kids did best being with their counterparts and being active in school sports. I saw that as healthy. It all depends on each child. For our situation public schooling was by far the best option.

 

[rightwinger]

Why shouldn't home schools have to meet he same standards as public schools?

You "assume" that the "public" standards are best

Have them meet any standard

Should a parent who never graduated HS homeschool?
Should a drug addicted parent homeschool?

Should homeschool kids be required to demonstrate progress?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

involved parents are their child's best teachers....hands down....

I was about to agree with you. But I had to mull it over in my head for a bit because something in my gut didn't feel quite right. Then I realized something. What you're saying here is similar to the kinds of things that many people say to those who choose to live child free. The "When you have a child of your own you'll love them so much you'll just find a way to be a good parent" kind of stuff.

The key element here is something that I think I'm going to call the "competence by parenting" fallacy. The highly romantic, but entirely illogical, idea that being a parent makes a person somehow magical in what they can do, or be competent at doing. The obvious evidence is that there are a great many people who are in fact very bad parents. Not necessarily absent or negligent, or anything like that. But they do a very bad job at raising their children into healthy and productive adults.

Abusive parents tend to be very involved in their child's lives. So being is generally necessary in order to commit abuse. On the other hand, there are many parents (and I think it's becoming more and more common nowadays) who are ultimately bad parents because they are too loving and never set boundaries for their children, and never teach them to be self reliant.

Anyway, my point is that any parent is only capable of being a "good" teacher for their children (most importantly, in non academic areas) inasmuch as the parent is already competent of being a good teacher and positive role model in the first place.

teachers may provide good information that one may retain....partially.....but compared to everything a parent teaches a child it is quite minor....which is why most homeschooled children beat the pants off their government schooled counterparts...

I think that the reasons why home schooled children tend to have better academic performance is due to the fact that home schooled children naturally have more individualized attention. There are drawbacks to home schooling also. Home schooled children tend to develop many poor social skills, for example.

other than gross exceptions....do you believe government bureacracy is 'competent' to judge that....? why or why not....?

 

[Amelia]

Libtruds have always hated home schooling because they can't stand the idea that not every child is subjected to government brainwashing. This is just one of the numerous attempts they have made to quash homeschooling and force all children into the government indoctrination mills.

Bill Would Require State Approval to Homeschool | The Arizona Conservative

Ohio State Senator Capri Cafaro (D-Hubbard) has introduced legislation to boost state regulation of homeschooling. Senate Bill 248 would require that parents be investigated and approved before being allowed to homeschool their children.

“The very fact that parents would want to deny their children the enriching experience of a public school education raises a ‘red flag,’” Cafaro declared. “It makes one wonder what other risks of neglect or abuse might be present in the home environment. Rather than supinely wait for tragedies to occur it is incumbent upon the government to intercede ahead of time.”

Cafaro hypothesized that “overt signs of excessive religious fervor, gun ownership, or the presence of books and magazines that denigrate progressive values and undermine loyalty to and faith in the efforts of the government to better people’s lives would demonstrate an anti-social environment that is unfit for children.”

The Senator acknowledged that “there are likely too many anti-social home environments for us to take the most appropriate remedy of removing the afflicted children. We should at least insist that the children attend public schools as a way of counterbalancing these pernicious influences on their education and development.”​

If the legislator really wanted more oversight to happen and wasn't simply grandstanding she should have chosen a diplomatic way of advocating for the proposal. Almost seems as if she doesn't know which state she lives in.

 

[bripat9643]

Fully agree, which is why the state's public interest require that parents are prepared and that they teach competently

And yet currently the home schoolers are far out pacing the states teaching abilities.... This is why you are a dangerous person Jake, you support a failed system over a better one because you simply support almost any form of Government growth.

Prove public schools are doing a better job educating home schools and you have a case, as it has been shown in this thread home schools do better by far tha public schools, so the "regulations" imposed by the state or federal would in fact be detrimental to the betterment of society as a whole.

Holy **** you're stupid man, lol.

I keep seeing that, but you guys have not posted any peer-reviewed, objective data to support it. Don't be afraid to post it.

Wrong, asshole. I just posted it. Homeschoolers perform far better on standardized tests than the victims of the government schools. Here it is again:

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests - Washington Times

"Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.

The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area.​

And if the schooling is that good (HS and college instructors tell me it's not, but that's only my anecdotal comment), then you have no worry about the school examining and learning from it and applying it in public school where possible.

You need to think instead of emote.

And Jarl, Avory, and Antares, when it comes to sense, are still ten short of a quarter. Tis what tis.

You mean some government toadies tell you they don't like home schooling? big surprise there. However, we know your story is made-up horseshit, just like everything you post.

 

[Amelia]

'Worst ever' home schooling bill withdrawn in Ohio « Watchdog.org

After coming under fire for what many were calling the “worst ever” home schooling bill, an Ohio state senator has decided to withdraw a controversial bill that would have required background checks for parents who decided to home-school their children.

Sen. Capri Cafaro, D-Hubbard, announced her decision to pull Senate Bill 248, also known as Teddy’s Law, late Thursday.

“SB 248 was never meant to be a policy debate about educating children in the home. It was meant to address weaknesses in the law pertaining to child protection. Unfortunately, the true intent of the bill to curtail child abuse has been eclipsed by the issue of home schooling.”

The proposed law was intended to honor Theodore “Teddy” Foltz-Tedesco, who was tortured and murdered by his mother’s boyfriend earlier this year. His mother had withdrawn Teddy from school, saying she was going to home-school him after teachers initiated an investigation into his potential abuse. Both adults were convicted of charges relating to his death and are serving time in prison.

The language in the bill would have required all parents who home-school to undergo a social services investigation, including interviews and background checks, to determine if home schooling would be permitted. If parents didn’t pass the investigation, an ‘intervention’ would be recommended before further consideration of their request to home-school.

“After consultation with Teddy’s family, we have collectively decided the best course of action is for me to withdraw SB 248, and instead pursue a more comprehensive approach to address the current challenges in the state’s social service and criminal justice system,” Cafaro said.

....

 

[bripat9643]

Why shouldn't home schools have to meet he same standards as public schools?

You "assume" that the "public" standards are best

Have them meet any standard

Should a parent who never graduated HS homeschool?
Should a drug addicted parent homeschool?

Should homeschool kids be required to demonstrate progress?

They already do have to meet standards. Home shooled kids have to take standardized tests on a regular basis. If they don't pass, they go back to the public school.

 

[bripat9643]

Why shouldn't home schools have to meet he same standards as public schools?

Why shouldn't parents have to serve their kids government approved lunches? Let's have the government approve home lunch menus, clothing, assigned chores, and entertainment.

What a moron.

 

[SwimExpert]

other than gross exceptions....do you believe government bureacracy is 'competent' to judge that....? why or why not....?

No, but then again my initial comment never implied that anyway.

 

[Vox]

There are advantages and disadvantages to any method of education. My kids did best being with their counterparts and being active in school sports. I saw that as healthy. It all depends on each child. For our situation public schooling was by far the best option.

you can have a kid in school sports and still homeschool the kid.
One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

 

[Vox]

'Worst ever' home schooling bill withdrawn in Ohio « Watchdog.org

After coming under fire for what many were calling the “worst ever” home schooling bill, an Ohio state senator has decided to withdraw a controversial bill that would have required background checks for parents who decided to home-school their children.

Sen. Capri Cafaro, D-Hubbard, announced her decision to pull Senate Bill 248, also known as Teddy’s Law, late Thursday.

“SB 248 was never meant to be a policy debate about educating children in the home. It was meant to address weaknesses in the law pertaining to child protection. Unfortunately, the true intent of the bill to curtail child abuse has been eclipsed by the issue of home schooling.”

The proposed law was intended to honor Theodore “Teddy” Foltz-Tedesco, who was tortured and murdered by his mother’s boyfriend earlier this year. His mother had withdrawn Teddy from school, saying she was going to home-school him after teachers initiated an investigation into his potential abuse. Both adults were convicted of charges relating to his death and are serving time in prison.

The language in the bill would have required all parents who home-school to undergo a social services investigation, including interviews and background checks, to determine if home schooling would be permitted. If parents didn’t pass the investigation, an ‘intervention’ would be recommended before further consideration of their request to home-school.

“After consultation with Teddy’s family, we have collectively decided the best course of action is for me to withdraw SB 248, and instead pursue a more comprehensive approach to address the current challenges in the state’s social service and criminal justice system,” Cafaro said.

....

which should have been the main point from the start.

GOOD.

 

[bripat9643]

'Worst ever' home schooling bill withdrawn in Ohio « Watchdog.org

After coming under fire for what many were calling the “worst ever” home schooling bill, an Ohio state senator has decided to withdraw a controversial bill that would have required background checks for parents who decided to home-school their children.

Sen. Capri Cafaro, D-Hubbard, announced her decision to pull Senate Bill 248, also known as Teddy’s Law, late Thursday.

“SB 248 was never meant to be a policy debate about educating children in the home. It was meant to address weaknesses in the law pertaining to child protection. Unfortunately, the true intent of the bill to curtail child abuse has been eclipsed by the issue of home schooling.”

The proposed law was intended to honor Theodore “Teddy” Foltz-Tedesco, who was tortured and murdered by his mother’s boyfriend earlier this year. His mother had withdrawn Teddy from school, saying she was going to home-school him after teachers initiated an investigation into his potential abuse. Both adults were convicted of charges relating to his death and are serving time in prison.

The language in the bill would have required all parents who home-school to undergo a social services investigation, including interviews and background checks, to determine if home schooling would be permitted. If parents didn’t pass the investigation, an ‘intervention’ would be recommended before further consideration of their request to home-school.

“After consultation with Teddy’s family, we have collectively decided the best course of action is for me to withdraw SB 248, and instead pursue a more comprehensive approach to address the current challenges in the state’s social service and criminal justice system,” Cafaro said.

....

which should have been the main point from the start.

GOOD.

It looks to me like these weasels were using the child abuse tragedy as a Trojan Horse to get their anti-homeschooling agenda passed.

 

[The T]

Why shouldn't home schools have to meet he same standards as public schools?

Why shouldn't parents have to serve their kids government approved lunches? Let's have the government approve home lunch menus, clothing, assigned chores, and entertainment.

What a moron.

Note the HERD mentality from the left? EVERYONE the same...they DENY the individual, which is their problem from the start. IF they recognize ALL may be born the same, NAKED, and helpless....WILL die the same... All in between is a different matter entirely. HUMANS have minds of their own...

Liberalism, Leftism, Statism is a mental disorder.

 

[Amelia]

'Worst ever' home schooling bill withdrawn in Ohio « Watchdog.org

which should have been the main point from the start.

GOOD.

It looks to me like these weasels were using the child abuse tragedy as a Trojan Horse to get their anti-homeschooling agenda passed.

The legislator appears to have let anti-homeschooling bias cloud her vision. The child who died didn't die because of homeschooling. It wasn't homeschooling which made Children’s Services fail to act on repeated reports. The homeschooling element was a distraction and the legislator fell for it.

 

[Vox]

'Worst ever' home schooling bill withdrawn in Ohio « Watchdog.org

which should have been the main point from the start.

GOOD.

It looks to me like these weasels were using the child abuse tragedy as a Trojan Horse to get their anti-homeschooling agenda passed.

sure they were.

but they were caught and ran away putting their tail between the legs

 

[Vox]

Why shouldn't home schools have to meet he same standards as public schools?

Why shouldn't parents have to serve their kids government approved lunches? Let's have the government approve home lunch menus, clothing, assigned chores, and entertainment.

What a moron.

Note the HERD mentality from the left? EVERYONE the same...they DENY the individual, which is their problem from the start. IF they recognize ALL may be born the same, NAKED, and helpless....WILL die the same... All in between is a different matter entirely. HUMANS have minds of their own...

Liberalism, Leftism, Statism is a mental disorder.

But of course.
The very nature of the left is a collectivist mindset - the HERD.

they won't survive as individuals ( at least that is what they think and being brainwashed with) and they don't even want to try.

 

[ron4342]

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests - Washington Times

"Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.

The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area.
​

The shit eating, brain dead scum bags are all in the government schools. You're obviously one of them.

If you want units that can pass tests and be indoctrinated into ONLY your way of thinking then home schooling is the way to go. However, even though you will refuse to acknowledge it, schools provide other benefits that home schooling cannot or will not provide. They give the student the chance to learn how to interact with others. There is no grade for this but the ability work with a wide variety of people is important to achieving success. The also give the students opportunities to see various viewpoints and to test new ideas. This allows the student to CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES what they believe. Public schooling helps to produce a well rounded individual capable of being able to work with a variety of people and ideas.
On the other hand, if you wish to create little red necked copies of yourself, home schooling is clearly the way to go. Obviously you are scared of allowing your children to see that there is an alternative to your way of thinking. Maybe, just maybe <gasp> <gasp> they might accept beliefs that you disagree with <gasp>! Better to keep that kind of knowledge away from them.

So your answer as to why public educated kids are far dumber than home schooled children is that public education offer social skills that can otherwise not be gained by homeschooling?

So if I home schooled my child and signed them up for privet sports where they learn far more than in public school sports they get no interaction with others in a positive constructive way VS planning what party they will be going to, who they want to **** there and on what drugs?

I get the feeling your limited education has stunted your ability to logically make a coherent argument against home schooling. You are clearly suffering from some basic levels of bigotry as well... Those "red neck" parents do better at teaching their children than your failing school system and the best you have is to call them "red necks."

I say again, IF your goal is to produce little red necks who think and act like you than home schooling is the way to go. That way you can make sure to properly brain wash them to your way of thinking. As for sports giving them the same benefits they would receive in school, it is a load of bull shit. How can discussing (Pick one... Civil War, WW1, WW2, the Cold War, and on and on) compare with playing soccer. They don't.
And finally, each year hundreds of thousands of students graduate from high school with good grades and without a history of drugs or low morals. What you are doing is looking at the worst of the students and then painting all public school students with the same brush. Kids who are properly prepared by their parents do fine in school. Those who fall by the wayside are those whose parents failed to do their jobs.
As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. If you cannot prepare your children properly to attend public schools it says something about your lack of parenting skills. Much of what children learn is learned through experience. Being fed a continuous dose of propaganda is not creating a well rounded individual regardless of how hard you defend it.
I get the feeling your inability to teach your children how to handle the pressures and temptations of the real world by keeping them insulated from society speaks to your limited education and small mind. You are scared shitless that your children will reject your close minded ways and act like thinking human beings. That is why you do not want them in regular schools. Your arguments speak to the type of red necks I was referring to in my initial post.

 

[KGB]

Schoolteachers in NY undergo background checks before they are hired. Why should a parent who wants to be a schoolteacher get preferential treatment?

A) unlike the teachers in schools, parents are related to their kids.
B) teachers are cleared because they are dealing with children who are not related to them. Therefore, it is desirable to know things like if they have a criminal record upfront.
C) as always with liberal legislation, there is the law of unintended consequence to deal with. In this case, I as a parent would be in violation of the law if I showed my kid how to play a sport, how to fix something, or even help them with their homework.

 

[KGB]

If you want units that can pass tests and be indoctrinated into ONLY your way of thinking then home schooling is the way to go. However, even though you will refuse to acknowledge it, schools provide other benefits that home schooling cannot or will not provide. They give the student the chance to learn how to interact with others. There is no grade for this but the ability work with a wide variety of people is important to achieving success. The also give the students opportunities to see various viewpoints and to test new ideas. This allows the student to CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES what they believe. Public schooling helps to produce a well rounded individual capable of being able to work with a variety of people and ideas.
On the other hand, if you wish to create little red necked copies of yourself, home schooling is clearly the way to go. Obviously you are scared of allowing your children to see that there is an alternative to your way of thinking. Maybe, just maybe <gasp> <gasp> they might accept beliefs that you disagree with <gasp>! Better to keep that kind of knowledge away from them.

So your answer as to why public educated kids are far dumber than home schooled children is that public education offer social skills that can otherwise not be gained by homeschooling?

So if I home schooled my child and signed them up for privet sports where they learn far more than in public school sports they get no interaction with others in a positive constructive way VS planning what party they will be going to, who they want to **** there and on what drugs?

I get the feeling your limited education has stunted your ability to logically make a coherent argument against home schooling. You are clearly suffering from some basic levels of bigotry as well... Those "red neck" parents do better at teaching their children than your failing school system and the best you have is to call them "red necks."

I say again, IF your goal is to produce little red necks who think and act like you than home schooling is the way to go. That way you can make sure to properly brain wash them to your way of thinking. As for sports giving them the same benefits they would receive in school, it is a load of bull shit. How can discussing (Pick one... Civil War, WW1, WW2, the Cold War, and on and on) compare with playing soccer. They don't.
And finally, each year hundreds of thousands of students graduate from high school with good grades and without a history of drugs or low morals. What you are doing is looking at the worst of the students and then painting all public school students with the same brush. Kids who are properly prepared by their parents do fine in school. Those who fall by the wayside are those whose parents failed to do their jobs.
As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. If you cannot prepare your children properly to attend public schools it says something about your lack of parenting skills. Much of what children learn is learned through experience. Being fed a continuous dose of propaganda is not creating a well rounded individual regardless of how hard you defend it.
I get the feeling your inability to teach your children how to handle the pressures and temptations of the real world by keeping them insulated from society speaks to your limited education and small mind. You are scared shitless that your children will reject your close minded ways and act like thinking human beings. That is why you do not want them in regular schools. Your arguments speak to the type of red necks I was referring to in my initial post.

Famous home schooled kids include Albert Einstein, Abe Lincoln, Ben Franklin, George Patton, Doug MacArthur, the Wright brothers, etc. yeah, these people clearly were not prepared for society....

Famous Homeschoolers

 

[ogibillm]

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests - Washington Times

"Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.

The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area.​

The shit eating, brain dead scum bags are all in the government schools. You're obviously one of them.

i'd like to introduce you to the concepts of causality and correlation.

So it's just mere chance that government schools churn out a vast mass of morons?

what i'm saying is that for your argument to be effective and valid you need to eliminate all other variables.

public schools, being the grand majority, will always produce kids that average the 50th percentile.

what you need to do is show that the home schooled kids went from that 50th percentile up to the 85th solely based on the homeschooling.

things like socio economics, parental involvement, and a myriad of other variables need to be eliminated - or else you're just showing that kids that would do well in public schools also do well home schooled - and you haven't shown that they do any better than they would have.