Biden's nominee for ATF head is an anti-gun lobbyist who was at the Ruby Ridge standoff and Waco massacre

[freyasman]

 

[freyasman]

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong.
The BATF opened fire indiscriminately first, not the Branch Davidians.
The Branch Davidians likely violated no law and committed no criminal act.

Watch the video more carefully.
There are 2 scenes where BATF enter the 2nd story window.
The first is unopposed and there are no bullet holes in the wall left of the window.
The second BATF group on the roof starts firing and gets return fire from the other BATF already inside.
That is when you see the holes in the wall.

I find this kind of amusing is that you clowns on the right defend every killing of a black person by a thug police officer as "Well, he should have obeyed the law".

The ATF was there with a valid warrant. You come out with your hands up and let them find whatever the hell it is they are looking for. THEN you fight the issue in court if you actually think you have a leg to stand on. You don't go getting into a firefight with them.

The whole credibility of the BATF case is lost when the underage sex stuff if brought up.
That is not part of the case, there is no testimony or evidence, and if it were at all true, that would have had vastly higher priority than a minor gun tax violation.
So then it likely is not at all true, but instead an attempt to slander the dead.

Actually, it's not even a disputable point. David Koresh fathered three children on Michelle Jones, whom he started having sex with when she was 12.

Rachel Koresh, David Koresh's Wife: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Learn all about Rachel Koresh, the wife of David Koresh, and why she stayed by his side even during the most horrific of circumstances.

heavy.com

There is also the testimony of Keri Jewel, who Koresh molested when she was 10.

The BATF sent bus loads of fully armed mercenaries into a multi family compound.
That is outrageous.
Just like Ruby Ridge, the BATF and FBI are way out of control and a clear and present danger to society.

Ruby Ridge were a bunch of Nazis.
Waco were a bunch of whacked out, child molesting cultists.

Nobody misses any of them.

 

[JoeB131]

View attachment 503547

No not when it involves molesting kids and illegally selling fully automatic firearms.

Religion is not a license to break laws the rest of us have agreed upon.

Otherwise, I want the right to cut the hearts out of MAGAts, because as a follower of Queztacoatl, that's part of my religion. I can totally cut the hearts out of my enemies with an obsidian knife.

Oh, who am I kidding. MAGAts don't have hearts.

 

[freyasman]

Wrong.
The BATF opened fire indiscriminately first, not the Branch Davidians.
The Branch Davidians likely violated no law and committed no criminal act.

Watch the video more carefully.
There are 2 scenes where BATF enter the 2nd story window.
The first is unopposed and there are no bullet holes in the wall left of the window.
The second BATF group on the roof starts firing and gets return fire from the other BATF already inside.
That is when you see the holes in the wall.

I find this kind of amusing is that you clowns on the right defend every killing of a black person by a thug police officer as "Well, he should have obeyed the law".

The ATF was there with a valid warrant. You come out with your hands up and let them find whatever the hell it is they are looking for. THEN you fight the issue in court if you actually think you have a leg to stand on. You don't go getting into a firefight with them.

The whole credibility of the BATF case is lost when the underage sex stuff if brought up.
That is not part of the case, there is no testimony or evidence, and if it were at all true, that would have had vastly higher priority than a minor gun tax violation.
So then it likely is not at all true, but instead an attempt to slander the dead.

Actually, it's not even a disputable point. David Koresh fathered three children on Michelle Jones, whom he started having sex with when she was 12.

Rachel Koresh, David Koresh's Wife: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Learn all about Rachel Koresh, the wife of David Koresh, and why she stayed by his side even during the most horrific of circumstances.

heavy.com

There is also the testimony of Keri Jewel, who Koresh molested when she was 10.

The BATF sent bus loads of fully armed mercenaries into a multi family compound.
That is outrageous.
Just like Ruby Ridge, the BATF and FBI are way out of control and a clear and present danger to society.

Ruby Ridge were a bunch of Nazis.
Waco were a bunch of whacked out, child molesting cultists.

Nobody misses any of them.

Sure, guy.

 

[freyasman]

View attachment 503547

No not when it involves molesting kids and illegally selling fully automatic firearms.

Religion is not a license to break laws the rest of us have agreed upon.

Otherwise, I want the right to cut the hearts out of MAGAts, because as a follower of Queztacoatl, that's part of my religion. I can totally cut the hearts out of my enemies with an obsidian knife.

View attachment 503560

Oh, who am I kidding. MAGAts don't have hearts.

So, what you're saying is, it's perfectly okay for agents of the state to attack people in their homes, burn them to the ground, and kill dozens of men, women, and children if someone is trying to set them up and coerce them to be federal informants, or if someone has accused one of them of doing something wrong, even though no one has been convicted of anything at all?

Are those the rules you're okay with?



Because we're picking teams right now, and pretty soon someone is going to say; "Play ball!!!", so you might want to think it over and be sure about this before we get started.


Just saying.

 

[JoeB131]

So, what you're saying is, it's perfectly okay for agents of the state to attack people in their homes, burn them to the ground, and kill dozens of men, women, and children if someone is trying to set them up and coerce them to be federal informants, or if someone has accused one of them of doing something wrong, even though no one has been convicted of anything at all?

Uh, guy, in both cases, there were legal federal warrants issued by judges. If you have a complaint with that, you get a lawyer and you fight it out in court. You don't get a bunch of guns and shoot at federal agents doing their jobs.

Also, the Davidians burned themselves.

Because we're picking teams right now, and pretty soon someone is going to say; "Play ball!!!", so you might want to think it over and be sure about this before we get started.


Just saying.

I'm all for teams.

My team doesn't include Nazis and Child Molesting Cultists.

 

[Flash]

David Chipman is one of the most despicable human beings on the face of the earth.

That makes him a good Democrat.

 

[Soupnazi630]

So, what you're saying is, it's perfectly okay for agents of the state to attack people in their homes, burn them to the ground, and kill dozens of men, women, and children if someone is trying to set them up and coerce them to be federal informants, or if someone has accused one of them of doing something wrong, even though no one has been convicted of anything at all?

Uh, guy, in both cases, there were legal federal warrants issued by judges. If you have a complaint with that, you get a lawyer and you fight it out in court. You don't get a bunch of guns and shoot at federal agents doing their jobs.

Also, the Davidians burned themselves.

Because we're picking teams right now, and pretty soon someone is going to say; "Play ball!!!", so you might want to think it over and be sure about this before we get started.


Just saying.

I'm all for teams.

My team doesn't include Nazis and Child Molesting Cultists.

Having a warrant does not give federaal agents permission to open fire first which is what happened. The agents killed were killed in self defense. Yes the davidians killed themselves and should have surrendered but the ATF was in the wrong. There was never evidence of full auto weapons and the federal government has no jurisdiction over statutory rape.

You love the murder and oppression of christians but screech like a teenaged fag when ever a black thig is legally killed in self defense such as Darren Wilson did with Micheal Brown.

You are the true racist liar

 

[westwall]

So, what you're saying is, it's perfectly okay for agents of the state to attack people in their homes, burn them to the ground, and kill dozens of men, women, and children if someone is trying to set them up and coerce them to be federal informants, or if someone has accused one of them of doing something wrong, even though no one has been convicted of anything at all?

Uh, guy, in both cases, there were legal federal warrants issued by judges. If you have a complaint with that, you get a lawyer and you fight it out in court. You don't get a bunch of guns and shoot at federal agents doing their jobs.

Also, the Davidians burned themselves.

Because we're picking teams right now, and pretty soon someone is going to say; "Play ball!!!", so you might want to think it over and be sure about this before we get started.


Just saying.

I'm all for teams.

My team doesn't include Nazis and Child Molesting Cultists.

Yeah, just like the FISA warrantscwrre legit too.

You fascists are all the same.

 

[JoeB131]

Having a warrant does not give federaal agents permission to open fire first which is what happened.

No, what gave them permission to open fire was that the Davidians drew guns on them. You know, the excuse all the racist cops use when they shoot kids playing with toys.

The agents killed were killed in self defense. Yes the davidians killed themselves and should have surrendered but the ATF was in the wrong. There was never evidence of full auto weapons and the federal government has no jurisdiction over statutory rape.

Actually, there was evidence, and members of the Davidians were convicted of possession of machine guns and grenades.

You love the murder and oppression of christians but screech like a teenaged fag when ever a black thig is legally killed in self defense such as Darren Wilson did with Micheal Brown.

Michael Brown was unarmed, with his hands up. The Davidians were actively shooting at Federal agents. You can look at all the BLM threads I've ever posted here. . I've never had a quarrel with a police officer who shot a suspect who had a gun drawn on him. I'll wait why you look.

Yeah, just like the FISA warrantscwrre legit too.

You fascists are all the same.

Uh, guy, FISA can listen in on my calls all day, I'm not doing anything illegal on the phone.

The only people who have a complaint are people plotting terrorism and treason. You kind of want the government to catch those guys.

Hey, remember when Republicans were against Russians trying to take over America. Good times.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Having a warrant does not give federaal agents permission to open fire first which is what happened.

No, what gave them permission to open fire was that the Davidians drew guns on them. You know, the excuse all the racist cops use when they shoot kids playing with toys.

The agents killed were killed in self defense. Yes the davidians killed themselves and should have surrendered but the ATF was in the wrong. There was never evidence of full auto weapons and the federal government has no jurisdiction over statutory rape.

Actually, there was evidence, and members of the Davidians were convicted of possession of machine guns and grenades.

You love the murder and oppression of christians but screech like a teenaged fag when ever a black thig is legally killed in self defense such as Darren Wilson did with Micheal Brown.

Michael Brown was unarmed, with his hands up. The Davidians were actively shooting at Federal agents. You can look at all the BLM threads I've ever posted here. . I've never had a quarrel with a police officer who shot a suspect who had a gun drawn on him. I'll wait why you look.

Yeah, just like the FISA warrantscwrre legit too.

You fascists are all the same.

Uh, guy, FISA can listen in on my calls all day, I'm not doing anything illegal on the phone.

The only people who have a complaint are people plotting terrorism and treason. You kind of want the government to catch those guys.

Hey, remember when Republicans were against Russians trying to take over America. Good times.

False the Davidians did not draw any guns Koresh was in plain sight and unarmed. The ATF fired first without just cause.

There was no evidence in fact no full auto weapons or grenades were recovered.

Michdeal Brown was unarmed and his hands were SWINGING up because he was charging wilson with the intent of causing lethal harm which is proven because he attempted to take Wilsons gun away.

These facts are proven beyond question and you are a liar. The Brown shooting was legal and justified.

 

[JoeB131]

False the Davidians did not draw any guns Koresh was in plain sight and unarmed. The ATF fired first without just cause.

Three actual investigations found that they did.

There was no evidence in fact no full auto weapons or grenades were recovered.

Again, trials of the survivors found otherwise. Five of them were convicted of involuntary manslaughter, one for possession of a grenade and several others for possession of fully automatic weapons.

Michdeal Brown was unarmed and his hands were SWINGING up because he was charging wilson with the intent of causing lethal harm which is proven because he attempted to take Wilsons gun away.

Except at the time he was shot, he was 157 feet away from Wilson's cruiser.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Apparently, the Fucktard's pick to head the ATF is an anti-gun nut who has participated in the killing of innocent Americans (and lying about the circumstances)...

Biden ATF nominee is anti-gun lobbyist who was at Waco and lied about cult shooting down helicopters | Daily Mail Online


President of the National Association for Gun Rights Dudley Brown noted concerns regarding Chipman's role as a case agent for ATF in the Branch Davidian trial while he was based at the Waco field office.

'David Chipman has been on the leading edge of ATF scandals for decades, all the way back to Waco – and now he shills for gun confiscation with Gun Control Inc.,' Brown told Fox. 'Chipman has embraced every hair-brained gun control scheme proposed, so of course Biden and Harris chose him – he'll fit right in with their corrupt administration.'

Great. It looks like we finally have someone who wants to run the agency like it should be instead of turning that over to the NRA

So you think that shooting an innocent, unarmed woman and kid (Ruby Ridge) and helping kill a bunch of innocent kids (Waco) is the route the Democrats need to go???

Chipman should have been brought up on murder charges for his role in those fiascos....

Spare me. I'm sure I've heard all your nut bag conspiracy theories as many times as you have.

Deflection....or trolling, you decide. (maybe both?)



How about responding to the OP?

Easy to call anything you don't like trolling, isn't it? Waco and Ruby Ridge are the holy grail of conspiracy theories, and deserve to be labeled as such. I didn't bring such crap into the discussion. If conspiracy theories are the best reasons to oppose the new head of the ATF, then there is no valid reason for him to be opposed.

Both were clear overreactions by the Federal Government to relatively minor crimes that could have been handled quietly by local law enforcement. Hell at Waco Janet Reno was trying to bring in Regular Army troops which is against the law and then "borrowed" armored vehicles from the Texas National Guard when the Army refused to violate Posse Comitatus.

 

[JoeB131]

Both were clear overreactions by the Federal Government to relatively minor crimes that could have been handled quietly by local law enforcement. Hell at Waco Janet Reno was trying to bring in Regular Army troops which is against the law and then "borrowed" armored vehicles from the Texas National Guard when the Army refused to violate Posse Comitatus.

Um, let's get real. They had to borrow armored vehicles because Koresh and his buddies were armed to the teeth with semi-automatic weapons.

Now, could the ATF handled this better? Yup. But I think the biggest problem is that they worked on the assumption that the Davidians were rational people who could be reasoned with and not a bunch of nuts who thought that the world was going to end in 1999. So they fairly reasonably thought if they showed up with enough agents, the Davidians would cooperate instead of having an insane shootout followed by mass suicide.

 

[BULLDOG]

Apparently, the Fucktard's pick to head the ATF is an anti-gun nut who has participated in the killing of innocent Americans (and lying about the circumstances)...

Biden ATF nominee is anti-gun lobbyist who was at Waco and lied about cult shooting down helicopters | Daily Mail Online


President of the National Association for Gun Rights Dudley Brown noted concerns regarding Chipman's role as a case agent for ATF in the Branch Davidian trial while he was based at the Waco field office.

'David Chipman has been on the leading edge of ATF scandals for decades, all the way back to Waco – and now he shills for gun confiscation with Gun Control Inc.,' Brown told Fox. 'Chipman has embraced every hair-brained gun control scheme proposed, so of course Biden and Harris chose him – he'll fit right in with their corrupt administration.'

Great. It looks like we finally have someone who wants to run the agency like it should be instead of turning that over to the NRA

So you think that shooting an innocent, unarmed woman and kid (Ruby Ridge) and helping kill a bunch of innocent kids (Waco) is the route the Democrats need to go???

Chipman should have been brought up on murder charges for his role in those fiascos....

Spare me. I'm sure I've heard all your nut bag conspiracy theories as many times as you have.

Deflection....or trolling, you decide. (maybe both?)



How about responding to the OP?

Easy to call anything you don't like trolling, isn't it? Waco and Ruby Ridge are the holy grail of conspiracy theories, and deserve to be labeled as such. I didn't bring such crap into the discussion. If conspiracy theories are the best reasons to oppose the new head of the ATF, then there is no valid reason for him to be opposed.

Both were clear overreactions by the Federal Government to relatively minor crimes that could have been handled quietly by local law enforcement. Hell at Waco Janet Reno was trying to bring in Regular Army troops which is against the law and then "borrowed" armored vehicles from the Texas National Guard when the Army refused to violate Posse Comitatus.

That's interesting and all, but now days, there is no need to borrow armored vehicles. Cops have their own armored vehicles. They are fully prepared to go to war with citizens on a whim. All that Ruby Ridge and Waco crap is still conspiracy theory crap, like they have always been.

 

[freyasman]

So, what you're saying is, it's perfectly okay for agents of the state to attack people in their homes, burn them to the ground, and kill dozens of men, women, and children if someone is trying to set them up and coerce them to be federal informants, or if someone has accused one of them of doing something wrong, even though no one has been convicted of anything at all?

Uh, guy, in both cases, there were legal federal warrants issued by judges. If you have a complaint with that, you get a lawyer and you fight it out in court. You don't get a bunch of guns and shoot at federal agents doing their jobs.

Also, the Davidians burned themselves.

Because we're picking teams right now, and pretty soon someone is going to say; "Play ball!!!", so you might want to think it over and be sure about this before we get started.


Just saying.

I'm all for teams.

My team doesn't include Nazis and Child Molesting Cultists.

Actually, that does seem to be the folks you're siding with.

 

[Soupnazi630]

False the Davidians did not draw any guns Koresh was in plain sight and unarmed. The ATF fired first without just cause.

Three actual investigations found that they did.

There was no evidence in fact no full auto weapons or grenades were recovered.

Again, trials of the survivors found otherwise. Five of them were convicted of involuntary manslaughter, one for possession of a grenade and several others for possession of fully automatic weapons.

Michdeal Brown was unarmed and his hands were SWINGING up because he was charging wilson with the intent of causing lethal harm which is proven because he attempted to take Wilsons gun away.

Except at the time he was shot, he was 157 feet away from Wilson's cruiser.

Investigations with no evidence by the very same government that fired first.

No grenades or full auto weapons were ever found.

Distance is irrelevant his actions prove you wrong, a coward and a liar and that is fact

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, that does seem to be the folks you're siding with.

Naw, I'm siding with the brave men and women of the FBI and ATF.

You are siding with Nazis and Cultists who can't obey our gun laws.

 

[JoeB131]

Investigations with no evidence by the very same government that fired first.

No grenades or full auto weapons were ever found.

Distance is irrelevant his actions prove you wrong, a coward and a liar and that is fact

Someone should have explained to you at an early age, contradiction isn't an argument.