Biden's nominee for ATF head is an anti-gun lobbyist who was at the Ruby Ridge standoff and Waco massacre

[Soupnazi630]

You peacefully arrest koresh when he was alone, walking into town..versus a violent assault in a fortified compound with innocent children on hand...

Again, the point wasn't to arrest Koresh, it was to seize the illegally modified guns he was selling.

Criminals legitimately killed in self-defense, by the victims that they were attempting to murder.

As always, you can be counted on to take the side of subhuman criminal pieces of shit.

ATF Agents are pieces of shit? I mean, I know you have sympathy for cultists, Mormon Bob, being in a cult yourself.

You know the difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra-Crispy!

Not at all to even hint that the Branch Davidians were perfect saints, in this case, but there is no honest way to spin this as a blatant, serious sequence o criminality on the part of government agents, culminating in a mass murder.

Every last government piece of shit who had any part in this deserves to die.

I think the government did a lot of things wrong, and the leaders of the ATF and FBI were removed from their positions by Bill Clinton.

But- they were illegally selling guns, molesting kids and cheating the welfare system. Executing an arrest and search warrant was called for.

It's funny to see the same people who think that Breonna Taylor deserved to die because her boyfriend had a gun, think it's okay that these Cult Freaks shot four ATF agents.

He was not selling illegal guns.

They were not molesting kids or cheating any welfare system.

The lies you spin do not distract from your racism.

They shotr those agentys in self defense now read a fyucking book fool

 

[JoeB131]

They tortured and murdered over eighty people, including women and children. It's not a matter of any kind of honest mistake on anyone's part. This was planned and deliberate. They knew what they were doing, and what they intended.

Every last one of them should have been tried, and on conviction, put to death.

Um, okay, let's look at that...

These people fired at federal agents, and then hid behind women and children to avoid consequences. The woman and children could have walked out of the complex at any time, and in fact, many of them did.

Now, personally, I think the Psy-Ops stuff was stupid, because the last thing you do with crazy people is try to drive them crazy.

But at the end of the day, these people killed themselves. This was the conclusion THREE separate investigations reached, including one led by John Danforth (R-MO), a man that both sides agreed had integrity that was above reproach.

I mean, Bob, it's nice to see you take a stand against police brutality (directed against White people, anyway) but dude, seriously... you are picking the wrong bunch to defend.

The BD's make Mormons look sane.

 

[JoeB131]

He was not selling illegal guns.

They were not molesting kids or cheating any welfare system.

The lies you spin do not distract from your racism.

They shotr those agentys in self defense now read a fyucking book fool

Commenting on the illiteracy would just detract from the hilarity.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

These people fired at federal agents, and then hid behind women and children to avoid consequences.

The federal agents started shooting first, blindly; into a building that they knew contained many innocents, including women and children; and without even the slightest vestige of justifiable cause to do so.

Any way you look at it, that's attempted murder, right there. And it poisons their position in anything that follows from that.

 

[JoeB131]

The federal agents started shooting first, blindly; into a building that they knew contained many innocents, including women and children; and without even the slightest vestige of justifiable cause to do so.

Any way you look at it, that's attempted murder, right there. And it poisons their position in anything that follows from that.

Um, no, three basic flaws in your argument.

The first is that the Davidians, not the ATF fired first. This was the finding of every investigation after the fact, and the finding of the court that found five Davidians guilty of voluntary manslaughter. It was also the finding of civil courts that dismissed lawsuits brought by the families of Branch Davidians for monetary damages.

The second is who bears responsibility for what followed. The thing was, you had a 51 day siege where Koresh and his followers were negotiated with to come out and give themselves up. They chose not to.

The third is that you ignore the fact he Davidians killed themselves. They started the fires.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The federal agents started shooting first, blindly; into a building that they knew contained many innocents, including women and children; and without even the slightest vestige of justifiable cause to do so.

Any way you look at it, that's attempted murder, right there. And it poisons their position in anything that follows from that.

Um, no, three basic flaws in your argument.

The first is that the Davidians, not the ATF fired first. This was the finding of every investigation after the fact, and the finding of the court that found five Davidians guilty of voluntary manslaughter. It was also the finding of civil courts that dismissed lawsuits brought by the families of Branch Davidians for monetary damages.

The second is who bears responsibility for what followed. The thing was, you had a 51 day siege where Koresh and his followers were negotiated with to come out and give themselves up. They chose not to.

The third is that you ignore the fact he Davidians killed themselves. They started the fires.

Wrong.

The ATF fired first. The is established fact as the ATF and other government agencies buried evidence and ignored it. For example they deliberately lost the front door of the compound which was not destroyed in the fire and was checked in as evidence by the FBI. In addition not one davidian who survived was convicted despite over twenty attempts.

Your argument like every post you make is ignorant and dumb.

Yoou have never been very bright and you do not know shit about history despite your internet hero lies about having a degree

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Your argument like every post you make is ignorant and dumb.

Not ignorant nor dumb. Outright lies. That's what Incel Joe does. That's what Incel Joe is.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Um, no, three basic flaws in your argument.

The first is that the Davidians, not the ATF fired first. This was the finding of every investigation after the fact, and the finding of the court that found five Davidians guilty of voluntary manslaughter. It was also the finding of civil courts that dismissed lawsuits brought by the families of Branch Davidians for monetary damages.

The second is who bears responsibility for what followed. The thing was, you had a 51 day siege where Koresh and his followers were negotiated with to come out and give themselves up. They chose not to.

The third is that you ignore the fact he Davidians killed themselves. They started the fires.

 

[JoeB131]

yes, Mormon Bob.

Federal Law Enforcement is evil and some whacky cult where the cult leader fucks teenage girls is good.

Only a Mormon would think that is acceptable. Then again, a study of the early history of your cult shows that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would have found Koresh to be a kindred spirit.

 

[JoeB131]

The ATF fired first. The is established fact as the ATF and other government agencies buried evidence and ignored it. For example they deliberately lost the front door of the compound which was not destroyed in the fire and was checked in as evidence by the FBI. In addition not one davidian who survived was convicted despite over twenty attempts.

Actually, only one of the doors was lost... The one that was retained showed both incoming and outgoing rounds, you know, like you'd expect to see during a firefight. Of course, the cultists were firing from windows, they wouldn't have fired through their own door.

And you are wrong about the Davidians.. A lot of them WERE convicted.

Waco siege - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The convicted Branch Davidians, who received sentences of up to 40 years,[87] were:

• Kevin A. Whitecliff – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Jaime Castillo – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Paul Gordon Fatta – convicted of conspiracy to possess machine guns and aiding Branch Davidian leader David Koresh in possessing machine guns.
• Renos Lenny Avraam (a British national) – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Graeme Leonard Craddock (Australian national) – convicted of possessing a grenade and using or possessing a firearm during a crime.
• Brad Eugene Branch – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Livingstone Fagan (a British national) – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Ruth Riddle (Canadian national) – convicted of using or carrying a weapon during a crime.
• Kathryn Schroeder – sentenced to three years after pleading guilty to a reduced charge of forcibly resisting arrest.

Your argument like every post you make is ignorant and dumb.

Yoou have never been very bright and you do not know shit about history despite your internet hero lies about having a degree

Uh, sorry, dude, I have a degree in History from the University of Illinois... so you'd be wrong about that, too. But you and Mormon Bob are wrong about, well, just about everything.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The ATF fired first. The is established fact as the ATF and other government agencies buried evidence and ignored it. For example they deliberately lost the front door of the compound which was not destroyed in the fire and was checked in as evidence by the FBI. In addition not one davidian who survived was convicted despite over twenty attempts.

Actually, only one of the doors was lost... The one that was retained showed both incoming and outgoing rounds, you know, like you'd expect to see during a firefight. Of course, the cultists were firing from windows, they wouldn't have fired through their own door.

And you are wrong about the Davidians.. A lot of them WERE convicted.

Waco siege - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The convicted Branch Davidians, who received sentences of up to 40 years,[87] were:

• Kevin A. Whitecliff – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Jaime Castillo – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Paul Gordon Fatta – convicted of conspiracy to possess machine guns and aiding Branch Davidian leader David Koresh in possessing machine guns.
• Renos Lenny Avraam (a British national) – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Graeme Leonard Craddock (Australian national) – convicted of possessing a grenade and using or possessing a firearm during a crime.
• Brad Eugene Branch – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Livingstone Fagan (a British national) – convicted of voluntary manslaughter and using a firearm during a crime.
• Ruth Riddle (Canadian national) – convicted of using or carrying a weapon during a crime.
• Kathryn Schroeder – sentenced to three years after pleading guilty to a reduced charge of forcibly resisting arrest.

Your argument like every post you make is ignorant and dumb.

Yoou have never been very bright and you do not know shit about history despite your internet hero lies about having a degree

Uh, sorry, dude, I have a degree in History from the University of Illinois... so you'd be wrong about that, too. But you and Mormon Bob are wrong about, well, just about everything.

No I am right about everything I debate with you and prove it every time.

TYou are a fucking fool ignorant in the extreme about history.

 

[JoeB131]

No I am right about everything I debate with you and prove it every time.

TYou are a fucking fool ignorant in the extreme about history.

The problem is, there were three complete investigations of who these wackos from Waco died, and all three concluded they fired first and then killed themselves.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No I am right about everything I debate with you and prove it every time.

TYou are a fucking fool ignorant in the extreme about history.

The problem is, there were three complete investigations of who these wackos from Waco died, and all three concluded they fired first and then killed themselves.

All done by the government excusing its own actions and ignoring evidence.

 

[JoeB131]

All done by the government excusing its own actions and ignoring evidence.

Quite the contrary, the fact that there WERE three investigations says this got more scrutiny than it merited.

Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

 

[Soupnazi630]

All done by the government excusing its own actions and ignoring evidence.

Quite the contrary, the fact that there WERE three investigations says this got more scrutiny than it merited.

Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Not when it is thhe government investigating itself or you must also believe every outcome of every internal affairs investigation for police departments

 

[JoeB131]

Not when it is thhe government investigating itself or you must also believe every outcome of every internal affairs investigation for police departments

IA aren't independent.

Danforth's commission was.

 

[Rigby5]

They tortured and murdered over eighty people, including women and children. It's not a matter of any kind of honest mistake on anyone's part. This was planned and deliberate. They knew what they were doing, and what they intended.

Every last one of them should have been tried, and on conviction, put to death.

Um, okay, let's look at that...

These people fired at federal agents, and then hid behind women and children to avoid consequences. The woman and children could have walked out of the complex at any time, and in fact, many of them did.

Now, personally, I think the Psy-Ops stuff was stupid, because the last thing you do with crazy people is try to drive them crazy.

But at the end of the day, these people killed themselves. This was the conclusion THREE separate investigations reached, including one led by John Danforth (R-MO), a man that both sides agreed had integrity that was above reproach.

I mean, Bob, it's nice to see you take a stand against police brutality (directed against White people, anyway) but dude, seriously... you are picking the wrong bunch to defend.

The BD's make Mormons look sane.

Wrong.
The BATF opened fire indiscriminately first, not the Branch Davidians.
The Branch Davidians likely violated no law and committed no criminal act.

Watch the video more carefully.
There are 2 scenes where BATF enter the 2nd story window.
The first is unopposed and there are no bullet holes in the wall left of the window.
The second BATF group on the roof starts firing and gets return fire from the other BATF already inside.
That is when you see the holes in the wall.



The BATF committed cold blooded murder and prevented any sort of surrender.
Nor were there ever sufficient grounds for even a search warrant.
Nor are BATF appropriate when there are children there.

 

[Rigby5]

Not when it is thhe government investigating itself or you must also believe every outcome of every internal affairs investigation for police departments

IA aren't independent.

Danforth's commission was.

There is no way to conduct an independent commission when the BATF and later FBI. illegally prevented any journalist or independent witnesses. It is obvious they cooked the video out of sequence, which can only be deliberate.

 

[Rigby5]

No I am right about everything I debate with you and prove it every time.

TYou are a fucking fool ignorant in the extreme about history.

The problem is, there were three complete investigations of who these wackos from Waco died, and all three concluded they fired first and then killed themselves.

Totally untrue.
Absolutely anyone watching the video has to see it was the BATF who fired first, shooting their own BATF member outside the window.
Nor could anyone ever claim the Davidians killed themselves because they did not have the shaped charges necessary to blow the hole in the concrete bunker.

 

[Rigby5]

yes, Mormon Bob.

Federal Law Enforcement is evil and some whacky cult where the cult leader fucks teenage girls is good.

Only a Mormon would think that is acceptable. Then again, a study of the early history of your cult shows that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would have found Koresh to be a kindred spirit.

The whole credibility of the BATF case is lost when the underage sex stuff if brought up.
That is not part of the case, there is no testimony or evidence, and if it were at all true, that would have had vastly higher priority than a minor gun tax violation.
So then it likely is not at all true, but instead an attempt to slander the dead.

The BATF sent bus loads of fully armed mercenaries into a multi family compound.
That is outrageous.
Just like Ruby Ridge, the BATF and FBI are way out of control and a clear and present danger to society.