Bernie Supporters... Please explain!

[Slade3200]

I must admit, the more I listen to Mr. Sanders the more I feel the burn! Problem is, I have fiscally conservative viewpoints and while I love his ideas, I'm very worried about our economy. Realistically speaking, I do not see how he is going to be able to rally enough support in congress to get his ideas into play and even if he does I don't understand how we can afford them.

I've looked at his tax plans and how he proposes to pay for his healthcare and education proposals, however, a key component that is missing is the ever growing debt and deficit in our country. I do not object to heavier taxes on the upper 1%, corporations, and wall street speculators... I'd hope we can find a balance that doesn't discourage their business growth, but also agree that the division of wealth and power is way out of hand. I'd just like to see a plan to tackle our debt. At this time, I have a very hard time supporting these revolutionary government programs, even for these great and worthy causes, when we don't have the money for it.

To put it in real terms, Our country is like a household with multiple loans and maxed out credit cards that can't even keep up on payments to these entities... In this situation it doesn't make sense to add on to the house, redo the landscaping, or purchase a new car... all of which, are nice investments that have their perks, but any normal household would save and earn to work their way out of the crushing debt... why isn't our government doing the same and why aren't voters expressing major concern about this??

From the candidates, where is a plan to pay our bills, improve our spending efficiency, and move towards a surplus?

This is my struggle and I'm curious if it is a shared concern amongst Bernie supporters or not. If not, then why?

​

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

There isn't much to explain. The promise of other people's money is quite powerful. It doesn't matter how much of a pure fantasy it is.

 

[Weatherman2020]

 

[RDD_1210]

There isn't much to explain. The promise of other people's money is quite powerful. It doesn't matter how much of a pure fantasy it is.

Conservatives love "others people money" just as much as anyone else does...they just want it for different things.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

There isn't much to explain. The promise of other people's money is quite powerful. It doesn't matter how much of a pure fantasy it is.

Conservatives love "others people money" just as much as anyone else does...they just want it for different things.

I don't disagree.

 

[Siete]

unless Congress complys, spending other peoples money is more than difficult for ANY POTUS to do ...

yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[Andylusion]

There isn't much to explain. The promise of other people's money is quite powerful. It doesn't matter how much of a pure fantasy it is.

Conservatives love "others people money" just as much as anyone else does...they just want it for different things.

If you are stupid enough to give me your money... yeah I'll take it. But you will NEVER see me vote to give anyone, even myself, other people's money.

But if *YOU* vote to give me your tax money... yeah I'll take it. Why would I deny you the stupidity of giving it to me?

 

[Slade3200]

There isn't much to explain. The promise of other people's money is quite powerful. It doesn't matter how much of a pure fantasy it is.

Conservatives love "others people money" just as much as anyone else does...they just want it for different things.

If you are stupid enough to give me your money... yeah I'll take it. But you will NEVER see me vote to give anyone, even myself, other people's money.

But if *YOU* vote to give me your tax money... yeah I'll take it. Why would I deny you the stupidity of giving it to me?

It's not about giving money, it's about contributing to to progress and operations of our government. It is our governments job to collect and use this money in a responsible way and our job as citizens to voice how we want that money managed. Leaders from both party's have proven irresponsible with this task.

Republicans hide behind the terms small government and low taxes but haven't walked the walk... And Dems keep investing in programs that are wildly inefficient and wasteful. Perhaps bearnies ideas for campaign finance reform is the best hope to make a significant effect on this problem

 

[P F Tinmore]

I must admit, the more I listen to Mr. Sanders the more I feel the burn! Problem is, I have fiscally conservative viewpoints and while I love his ideas, I'm very worried about our economy. Realistically speaking, I do not see how he is going to be able to rally enough support in congress to get his ideas into play and even if he does I don't understand how we can afford them.

I've looked at his tax plans and how he proposes to pay for his healthcare and education proposals, however, a key component that is missing is the ever growing debt and deficit in our country. I do not object to heavier taxes on the upper 1%, corporations, and wall street speculators... I'd hope we can find a balance that doesn't discourage their business growth, but also agree that the division of wealth and power is way out of hand. I'd just like to see a plan to tackle our debt. At this time, I have a very hard time supporting these revolutionary government programs, even for these great and worthy causes, when we don't have the money for it.

To put it in real terms, Our country is like a household with multiple loans and maxed out credit cards that can't even keep up on payments to these entities... In this situation it doesn't make sense to add on to the house, redo the landscaping, or purchase a new car... all of which, are nice investments that have their perks, but any normal household would save and earn to work their way out of the crushing debt... why isn't our government doing the same and why aren't voters expressing major concern about this??

From the candidates, where is a plan to pay our bills, improve our spending efficiency, and move towards a surplus?

This is my struggle and I'm curious if it is a shared concern amongst Bernie supporters or not. If not, then why?

View attachment 61420
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I think the big deal would be his health care plan. It would cost a lot less than Obamacare and less that we were paying before.

Everybody would be covered and that would be a boon for small and start up companies who would no longer have that expense. That could boost our economy and increase the tax base while reducing welfare.

 

[Katzndogz]

Bernie intends to double the taxes on the middle class. In his opinion what the middle class loses will be compensated by public benefits.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What about, "it's free as long as someone else pays for it" doesn't the OP understand?

 

[Indeependent]

Let the Board of Directors of America feel some of the pain they have been inflicting on Middle Class Professionals.
I hear they're REALLY smart and will bounce back in no time.

 

[Slade3200]

What about, "it's free as long as someone else pays for it" doesn't the OP understand?

You obviously don't understand my question or the discussion I'm trying to envoke... The forum for children is in a different section, you should check it out.

 

[RDD_1210]

Bernie intends to double the taxes on the middle class. In his opinion what the middle class loses will be compensated by public benefits.

Link?

 

[GHook93]

There isn't much to explain. The promise of other people's money is quite powerful. It doesn't matter how much of a pure fantasy it is.

Conservatives love "others people money" just as much as anyone else does...they just want it for different things.

I don't disagree.

It is hard not to disagree seeing how both parties have spend reckless over the last few decades. Nevertheless what Sanders is talking about is beyond the realm of reason.


He also is talking about raising taxes on everyone not the so called 1%

 

[Slade3200]

It is hard not to disagree seeing how both parties have spend reckless over the last few decades. Nevertheless what Sanders is talking about is beyond the realm of reason.

He also is talking about raising taxes on everyone not the so called 1%

To be fair, the idea behind the middle class tax increase ends up paying for itself as it replaces the healthcare premiums and will end up saving the middle class money in the long run. Reps love to leave that point out. Now, that is the plan and theory, although, to the democrats out there, you must admit that the government has been very poor at hitting budget projections and running their programs in an effective and efficient manner. So if the initiatives actually could move forward, they would likely cost much more than projected. The talking points of Bernie's plans sound great, however the realism is low for congressional approval and then proper operational and budgetary management.

I think his campaign reform is the smartest and most effective idea... the rest of the focus should be aimed towards getting us out of debt and stopping this financial burn... New slogan... "Feel the Bern, Stop the Bern!"

 

[Andylusion]

There isn't much to explain. The promise of other people's money is quite powerful. It doesn't matter how much of a pure fantasy it is.

Conservatives love "others people money" just as much as anyone else does...they just want it for different things.

If you are stupid enough to give me your money... yeah I'll take it. But you will NEVER see me vote to give anyone, even myself, other people's money.

But if *YOU* vote to give me your tax money... yeah I'll take it. Why would I deny you the stupidity of giving it to me?

It's not about giving money, it's about contributing to to progress and operations of our government. It is our governments job to collect and use this money in a responsible way and our job as citizens to voice how we want that money managed. Leaders from both party's have proven irresponsible with this task.

Republicans hide behind the terms small government and low taxes but haven't walked the walk... And Dems keep investing in programs that are wildly inefficient and wasteful. Perhaps bearnies ideas for campaign finance reform is the best hope to make a significant effect on this problem

And if we have just one more drug law, drugs won't be a problem. If we had just one more gun law, guns wouldn't be a problem. So obviously, since all those laws were so perfectly effective, all we need is one more campaign finance reform law, and we will usher in an era of altruistic utopian government.

With all due respect sir...... if you really believe that, then you are absolutely bonkers. NUTZ.

I don't know how old you are, but I remember the 1990s. They caught Al Gore, 100% red headed, on TAPE, making calls from the office of the vice-president, shaking down companies for money. It was as much clear cut proof as one could get breaking federal fund raising laws. Not only did they refuse to find him guilty, but they didn't even really investigate it further.

And you think we just need one more campaign financing law? When they completely break all the laws already on the book? YOU ARE CRAZY.

Moreover, those people like you that claim it's the money that's the problem, are just wrong. It's not lobbying that's the problem.

The problem is the public. As long as the public will vote for whoever promises whatever they want.... then politicians will keep making promises that they can't keep.

Then when they can't keep those promises, which they never could to begin with, you blame lobbying and crap. No, you need to blame yourselves. YOU are the problem. You demand this, and demand that, and demand more, and government fix our lives, and government fix the economy, and government fix my mortgage, and my gasoline, and on and on and on.....

Government can't fix those things. It never had the ability to, to begin with. But a politician is just that... a politician. He's going to promise whatever he has to, to get your dumb butt to vote for him.

As long as the public is that dumb... the politicians are going to keep making unrealistic promises. Your fault. Not theirs.

Those idiots in Greece are complaining that the politicians lied to them. No, they were so unbelievably stupid, that some idiot got up there and said "vote for me, and I'll force others to give us money"...... DERP! If you were dumb enough to believe that, then YOU are the issue, not them. The Greeks were that dumb. Their fault, not the politicians.

Stop voting for people who promise things they have no ability to deliver, and then you'll complain less about broken promises.

Then you won't have to make up that the problem is campaign finance laws.

First you said "conservatives". Now you are talking about "Republicans". Republican is a political party. They will push whatever they have to, to get votes.

Conservative, is a ideology. A Conservative does not support taking other people's money.

It was the Conservative caucus in the House of Representatives, that voted against the bank bailouts, and proposed an alternative package, that didn't use tax payer money.

The bottom line is, you are wrong. Conservatives are not leftists, that believe in taking other people's money, to give them everything they want.

And lastly, you can label "tax and spend" policies as being "contributing to to progress and operations of our government" and that sounds all high-minded and nifty.

Reality is, group A, wants government to confiscate money from group B, to give group A stuff for free.

That's the truth. All that high-minded crap, is nice sounding, and makes us all feel good and peachy. In reality, I want something... I don't want to pay for it... I demand government force YOU, to pay for MY stuff. That's what those policies are.

And the problem isn't leadership. The problem is government itself. I don't care who you vote for... there is no way to get good management in government. Not possible. The incentives are aligned against it. There is no Angelic Politicians from Heaven, that will make government work perfectly. Can't happen. Better chance of finding Unicorns and Fairies.

 

[Arianrhod]

I must admit, the more I listen to Mr. Sanders the more I feel the burn! Problem is, I have fiscally conservative viewpoints and while I love his ideas, I'm very worried about our economy. Realistically speaking, I do not see how he is going to be able to rally enough support in congress to get his ideas into play and even if he does I don't understand how we can afford them.

I've looked at his tax plans and how he proposes to pay for his healthcare and education proposals, however, a key component that is missing is the ever growing debt and deficit in our country. I do not object to heavier taxes on the upper 1%, corporations, and wall street speculators... I'd hope we can find a balance that doesn't discourage their business growth, but also agree that the division of wealth and power is way out of hand. I'd just like to see a plan to tackle our debt. At this time, I have a very hard time supporting these revolutionary government programs, even for these great and worthy causes, when we don't have the money for it.

To put it in real terms, Our country is like a household with multiple loans and maxed out credit cards that can't even keep up on payments to these entities... In this situation it doesn't make sense to add on to the house, redo the landscaping, or purchase a new car... all of which, are nice investments that have their perks, but any normal household would save and earn to work their way out of the crushing debt... why isn't our government doing the same and why aren't voters expressing major concern about this??

From the candidates, where is a plan to pay our bills, improve our spending efficiency, and move towards a surplus?

This is my struggle and I'm curious if it is a shared concern amongst Bernie supporters or not. If not, then why?

View attachment 61420
​

First of all, a country is not analogous to a household. I'll let those with degrees in economics elaborate on that.

Secondly, if you want to understand the candidates' economic policies, you'd be better off checking their websites than listening to a bunch of message board "experts" dissing a candidate because they don't get it.

 

[Andylusion]

It is hard not to disagree seeing how both parties have spend reckless over the last few decades. Nevertheless what Sanders is talking about is beyond the realm of reason.

He also is talking about raising taxes on everyone not the so called 1%

To be fair, the idea behind the middle class tax increase ends up paying for itself as it replaces the healthcare premiums and will end up saving the middle class money in the long run. Reps love to leave that point out. Now, that is the plan and theory, although, to the democrats out there, you must admit that the government has been very poor at hitting budget projections and running their programs in an effective and efficient manner. So if the initiatives actually could move forward, they would likely cost much more than projected. The talking points of Bernie's plans sound great, however the realism is low for congressional approval and then proper operational and budgetary management.

I think his campaign reform is the smartest and most effective idea... the rest of the focus should be aimed towards getting us out of debt and stopping this financial burn... New slogan... "Feel the Bern, Stop the Bern!"

This is exactly what I was talking about in my other post. See you are going to elect Sanders, and then he's going to jack up taxes by 10% on everyone, and then you'll be here complaining that he lied, and he was influenced by the health care lobby and demanding more campaign finance laws.

The most 'conservative' estimates of how much of a tax increase would be required to pay for universal so-called "free" government Health Care, would be at least 10%. That's according to "Physicians for a National Health Program", which is a lobbying group made up of .... physicians.

Now if there is any group that would be motivated to 'under-estimate' the taxes required... it's this group. Yet they are saying 10% across the board, everyone would be required to pay 10% more taxes.

The average wage in America is $52K a year. 10% is $5,200. That's how much ADDITIONAL taxes you would have to pay, to have universal health care in America. And I wager that estimate is low. The taxes in other countries to pay for health care is certainly higher than that.

How much is the average health insurance premium in America? $4,200.

So according the absolute BEST estimates, it would still be $1,000 more expensive to have that universal health care.

But of course you WANT to believe it will be cheaper, so when Bernie says what YOU WANT to be true, you vote for him... which is why he's saying this crap.

AND...... BTW......

All of those other countries with universal health care, millions on million of people have PRIVATE insurance on TOP of their Universal health care, because it sucks.

This is from WHO, from 2000. They all have "FREE" health care, and yet 40, 50, 60, 80, even 90% of the population in the Neitherlands, has PRIVATE PAY-FOR-SERVICE insurance.... ON TOP... of their "free" universal gov-care.

So... you get to pay 10% more in taxes.... AND pay for private health insurance on top of that.

So much for your off-setting the cost BS.

Now you are going to vote for Sanders, because he made you all these BS promises, and then when he can't deliver, you'll blame campaign finance laws and some such crap, instead of yourself, for believe this absolute trash.

The problem is in your mirror dude.

 

[Rustic]

I must admit, the more I listen to Mr. Sanders the more I feel the burn! Problem is, I have fiscally conservative viewpoints and while I love his ideas, I'm very worried about our economy. Realistically speaking, I do not see how he is going to be able to rally enough support in congress to get his ideas into play and even if he does I don't understand how we can afford them.

I've looked at his tax plans and how he proposes to pay for his healthcare and education proposals, however, a key component that is missing is the ever growing debt and deficit in our country. I do not object to heavier taxes on the upper 1%, corporations, and wall street speculators... I'd hope we can find a balance that doesn't discourage their business growth, but also agree that the division of wealth and power is way out of hand. I'd just like to see a plan to tackle our debt. At this time, I have a very hard time supporting these revolutionary government programs, even for these great and worthy causes, when we don't have the money for it.

To put it in real terms, Our country is like a household with multiple loans and maxed out credit cards that can't even keep up on payments to these entities... In this situation it doesn't make sense to add on to the house, redo the landscaping, or purchase a new car... all of which, are nice investments that have their perks, but any normal household would save and earn to work their way out of the crushing debt... why isn't our government doing the same and why aren't voters expressing major concern about this??

From the candidates, where is a plan to pay our bills, improve our spending efficiency, and move towards a surplus?

This is my struggle and I'm curious if it is a shared concern amongst Bernie supporters or not. If not, then why?

View attachment 61420
​

First of all, a country is not analogous to a household. I'll let those with degrees in economics elaborate on that.

Secondly, if you want to understand the candidates' economic policies, you'd be better off checking their websites than listening to a bunch of message board "experts" dissing a candidate because they don't get it.