Zone1 Belief in God drops to 81 percent

[JustAGuy1]

Here's the other argument.

Where Is the Immaculate Conception in the Bible?

Protestants claim that Scripture has no evidence of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary. But in fact, the evidence is all over the place.

www.catholic.com

Nothing in supports Catholicism's lie.

Luke 1

New International Version

​

Introduction​

1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold​

5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly. 7 But they were childless because Elizabeth was not able to conceive, and they were both very old.
8 Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, 9 he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense. 10 And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
18 Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years.”
19 The angel said to him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20 And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their appointed time.”
21 Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he stayed so long in the temple. 22 When he came out, he could not speak to them. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple, for he kept making signs to them but remained unable to speak.
23 When his time of service was completed, he returned home. 24 After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion. 25 “The Lord has done this for me,” she said. “In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people.”

The Birth of Jesus Foretold​

26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left he

 

[Hollie]

I find it helpful to keep in mind, Not everything in the Bible is about me.

Certainly. But aren't we told the Bible is about man's relationship with the God? That might suggest the God would make an attempt to convey a clear, unambiguous message.

 

[Hollie]

Who (by His grace) blocked the sin from being part of who Mary was?

Who blocked the sin? The doctrine surrounding immaculate conception is a very recent establishment of the catholic church; mid 1850's?

 

[Meriweather]

Certainly. But aren't we told the Bible is about man's relationship with the God? That might suggest the God would make an attempt to convey a clear, unambiguous message.

There is the sender...there are the receivers. It works best for each receiver to get as close to the sender as possible.

 

[Meriweather]

Who blocked the sin? The doctrine surrounding immaculate conception is a very recent establishment of the catholic church; mid 1850's?

God blocked the sin by His grace.

Formal dogma was not set in stone until the mid 1850s. However, informally, the concept of Mary's conception began with early Christianity. The Church takes its time over matters such as these where not everyone agrees. I believe someone submitted a post about why they disagree.

 

[Hollie]

There is the sender...there are the receivers. It works best for each receiver to get as close to the sender as possible.

It works best if the sender and receiver are open and truthful. A relationship based on misunderstanding, confused messaging and ambiguous commitment is probably doomed.

 

[Hollie]

God blocked the sin by His grace.

Formal dogma was not set in stone until the mid 1850s. However, informally, the concept of Mary's conception began with early Christianity. The Church takes its time over matters such as these where not everyone agrees. I believe someone submitted a post about why they disagree.

Nothing in the Bible identifies the God blocking any sin.

 

[Meriweather]

It works best if the sender and receiver are open and truthful.

Are there particular places in the Bible where you find yourself closing down?

 

[Meriweather]

Nothing in the Bible identifies the God blocking any sin.

We have come full circle back to Post #1722.

 

[Hollie]

Are there particular places in the Bible where you find yourself closing down?

Lots of places sending misunderstanding, confused messaging and ambiguous commitment.

 

[Hollie]

We have come full circle back to Post #1722.

Not at all, actually. 1722 didn't address any of the salient points relative to the Bible and Mary being born without original sin.

 

[Meriweather]

Lots of places sending misunderstanding, confused messaging and ambiguous commitment.

Perhaps we can take them one at a time?

 

[Meriweather]

Not at all, actually. 1722 didn't address any of the salient points relative to the Bible and Mary being born without original sin.

First paragraph. Some early Christians believed that Mary was so fully endued with grace she was born without Original Sin.

Remember, Original Sin came about because mankind (Adam and Eve) wanted knowledge of both good and evil. They wanted to be more like God, God who could turn evil (or a bad situation) to good. For me, that has always been the interesting question about Mary. If she she did not know sin, then she could not learn from it and turn that sin to goodness. Did she ever consider that a handicap? It all was always good, that is a pretty flat line when compared to the rest of us, isn't it? 'Goody Two-Shoes' isn't exactly a compliment.

I am fine with people thinking no Original Sin for Mary. However, I find it more interesting to think about what it might be like to be without the knowledge of both good and evil, without knowing how to turn what is wrong into what is good.

 

[Hollie]

First paragraph. Some early Christians believed that Mary was so fully endued with grace she was born without Original Sin.

Remember, Original Sin came about because mankind (Adam and Eve) wanted knowledge of both good and evil. They wanted to be more like God, God who could turn evil (or a bad situation) to good. For me, that has always been the interesting question about Mary. If she she did not know sin, then she could not learn from it and turn that sin to goodness. Did she ever consider that a handicap? It all was always good, that is a pretty flat line when compared to the rest of us, isn't it? 'Goody Two-Shoes' isn't exactly a compliment.

I am fine with people thinking no Original Sin for Mary. However, I find it more interesting to think about what it might be like to be without the knowledge of both good and evil, without knowing how to turn what is wrong into what is good.

What some early Christians believed has been revised and amended as the Catholic Church and various Christian denominations have splintered into sects and sub-sects. I find it remarkable that it was only in the mid 1850's that the Catholic Church codified the idea of s sinless Mary. I wonder why that was such a recent Bible amendment?

Remember that the Genesis fable is a rather disjointed and convoluted story even in a very narrow sense where the understanding of religion is (temporal, cultural) and it is within that context that compliance with doctrine/dogma is viewed as the lens of 'truth'. The fact is that no two Christian sects agree completely on what the God's message is, and how the bible is to be interpreted. Above that, there are hundreds of religions actively being practiced in the world, and the adherents of each one believe theirs is the only one that's valid. And, there are a number of... shall we say... sinister implications regarding the God.

 

[Meriweather]

What some early Christians believed has been revised and amended as the Catholic Church and various Christian denominations have splintered into sects and sub-sects. I find it remarkable that it was only in the mid 1850's that the Catholic Church codified the idea of s sinless Mary. I wonder why that was such a recent Bible amendment?

Remember, it is not a Bible amendment, but a tradition that became formally recognized.

 

[Meriweather]

Remember that the Genesis fable is a rather disjointed and convoluted story even in a very narrow sense where the understanding of religion is (temporal, cultural) and it is within that context that compliance with doctrine/dogma is viewed as the lens of 'truth'. The fact is that no two Christian sects agree completely on what the God's message is, and how the bible is to be interpreted. Above that, there are hundreds of religions actively being practiced in the world, and the adherents of each one believe theirs is the only one that's valid. And, there are a number of... shall we say... sinister implications regarding the God.

I see each story in the Bible as someone who has something to say. It also appears as generations passed, they were revised or updated, much like we do with our textbooks in our own time. They are fun to research and analyze, trying to get back to the intent of the original author to the original audience. Our ancestors were amazing storytellers.

Adam died at age 930; Cain died at age 730; Seth died at age 912. I think the best theory is that Adam, Cain, Abel, and Seth were the names of tribes. It was the history of our first tribes made into single characters. The Tribe of Man (Adam means 'man') grew and prospered and then divided into two more tribes: Cain and Abel. The tribe of Cain (settlers) were furious when the tribe of Abel (shepherds) showed no control over their sheep and goats who in the way of such animals destroyed the Cain crops. War. It appears the tribe of Abel was massacred, and the bigger tribe, Adam, banished the tribe of Cain from the area. The tribe of Cain moved on, kept to their settlement ways and became known as the builder of cities.

Meanwhile, the tribe of Adam continued to prosper and once more divided, forming the tribe of Seth.

While individual men did not live hundreds of years, their tribes survived--and were apparently long-lived.

Other parts of early creation may have been divided into the creation of the physical realm and the beginning of our creation in the spiritual realm.

Hollie, it is fascinating stuff--or, at least I think so. I don't know the "reality" and it is not all that important to me. I like to dig for those bits that our ancient ancestors felt important to pass onto us. Even back then, lack of sexual discipline was an issue--and the reason they thought an issue worth mentioning, is because time after time, it was the indication of a failing tribe or society. Even then, there was something about big cities that did not quite mesh with smaller populations.

There is ever so much more. Have fun with it! There is a lot of information available. As there is no way of knowing for sure, we can all have different ideas, different "What ifs". In the end, I think we will discover what is true today and down through time, was true then.

 

[Dagosa]

LOL

"get the vax or we are all going to die"
"inflation is Putin's fault"
"high gas prices are good"
"if you like your plan you can keep it"


liberal policies that are laughed at by a majority of americans

"america first"

conservative policy supported by a vast majority of americans

And what are the policies of the gop ? Do nothing.

 

[BreezeWood]

I see each story in the Bible as someone who has something to say. It also appears as generations passed, they were revised or updated, much like we do with our textbooks in our own time. They are fun to research and analyze, trying to get back to the intent of the original author to the original audience. Our ancestors were amazing storytellers.

Adam died at age 930; Cain died at age 730; Seth died at age 912. I think the best theory is that Adam, Cain, Abel, and Seth were the names of tribes. It was the history of our first tribes made into single characters. The Tribe of Man (Adam means 'man') grew and prospered and then divided into two more tribes: Cain and Abel. The tribe of Cain (settlers) were furious when the tribe of Abel (shepherds) showed no control over their sheep and goats who in the way of such animals destroyed the Cain crops. War. It appears the tribe of Abel was massacred, and the bigger tribe, Adam, banished the tribe of Cain from the area. The tribe of Cain moved on, kept to their settlement ways and became known as the builder of cities.

Meanwhile, the tribe of Adam continued to prosper and once more divided, forming the tribe of Seth.

While individual men did not live hundreds of years, their tribes survived--and were apparently long-lived.

Other parts of early creation may have been divided into the creation of the physical realm and the beginning of our creation in the spiritual realm.

Hollie, it is fascinating stuff--or, at least I think so. I don't know the "reality" and it is not all that important to me. I like to dig for those bits that our ancient ancestors felt important to pass onto us. Even back then, lack of sexual discipline was an issue--and the reason they thought an issue worth mentioning, is because time after time, it was the indication of a failing tribe or society. Even then, there was something about big cities that did not quite mesh with smaller populations.

There is ever so much more. Have fun with it! There is a lot of information available. As there is no way of knowing for sure, we can all have different ideas, different "What ifs". In the end, I think we will discover what is true today and down through time, was true then.

Hollie, it is fascinating stuff--or, at least I think so.

does she ever look at their recorded history ... christianity, the desert religions -

uninterrupted to the present day.

oh, why be remorseful it wasn't them and its so much fun having it their way and those people certainly deserved what they got. a prostitute.

 

[Dagosa]

LOL

"get the vax or we are all going to die"
"inflation is Putin's fault"
"high gas prices are good"
"if you like your plan you can keep it"


liberal policies that are laughed at by a majority of americans

"america first"

conservative policy supported by a vast majority of american

Foolish, those aren’t policies. They’re outcomes-from the Trump era we have to deal with now.
Foolish, unvaccinated idiots are dying at much higher rates. Science illiteracy is a key trait of the white supremest crowd.

Trump gave us COVID, recessions and Putin support to invade Ukraine by weakening NATO.

 

[Dagosa]

Foolish, those aren’t policies. They’re outcomes-from the the Trump era we have to deal with now.

He ran in several presidential primaries and it seems that not even most democrats want him to be president.

You know nothing. You’re poorly informed. The corporate supported super delegate pledges of the Democratic Party are the only reason Hillary and Biden won.