Before 1860 secession was considered to be constitutional

[bripat9643]

I'd like to see some state like Texas try to secede today, and have to explain why

1. most of the money Texans have paid into Social Security and Medicare would be lost.

2. tens of thousands of federal jobs would be leaving the state

...for starters...

1. There is no money in the Social Security or Medicare trust funds. Nothing lost there.
   
2. $billions of dollars would no longer leave the state to pay for federal boondoggles like Obamacare.

 

[thanatos144]

I'd like to see some state like Texas try to secede today, and have to explain why

1. most of the money Texans have paid into Social Security and Medicare would be lost.

2. tens of thousands of federal jobs would be leaving the state

...for starters...

1. There is no money in the Social Security or Medicare trust funds. Nothing lost there.
   
2. $billions of dollars would no longer leave the state to pay for federal boondoggles like Obamacare.

What has any of that have to do with your love affair with slavers that caused the deaths of more Americans then in any other war?

Welcome to my nightmare

 

[bripat9643]

Yes they were point being? No flag of the CSA ever flew over a slave ship..the stars and stripes did...typical idiot hates the sources so throws baby out with the bath water.

Typically those ships had New England owners and crews. A bunch of damn Yankees purchased the slaves in Africa, crammed them into the filthy holds of their slave ships and then carted them to Charleston or Baltimore where they were sold.

However, that's all academic, since according to the moral code of the Lincoln cult might makes right and those slaves got just what they deserved, right Sallow?

Your knowledge of history is just about as good as your knowledge of the Constitution.

In any case, those poor poor Southerners had no intention of getting rid of their free labor.

Hence the war.

It's hilarious watching an ignoramus like you accusing me of not knowing history.

 

[bripat9643]

Hey Bripat, you lost then, you continue to lose now. The South is and always will be part of the Union. One Nation, Indivisable, with Liberty and Justice for All. Don't like that, get your scummy as to some other nation.

I beleive they had the same problem in some Nothern Georgian counties.

And WESTERN Virginia clearly was not down with the CSA.

Everything that the CSA claimed they opposed about the Union the CSA then did to its own people.

The war was about one thing and one thing only...protecting slavery.

Everything else CSA apologists tell you is rationalizing BS.

Death to all slavers

Except for the fact one of the South's greatest Generals was from WV and MANY units from WV fought for the south. The war was about independence from an over reaching government. Slavery had died out everywhere else peacefully and would have done so in the south as well.

What was the overreach exactly?

Invading the state of Virginia was overreach.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'd like to see some state like Texas try to secede today, and have to explain why

1. most of the money Texans have paid into Social Security and Medicare would be lost.

2. tens of thousands of federal jobs would be leaving the state

...for starters...

1. There is no money in the Social Security or Medicare trust funds. Nothing lost there.
   
2. $billions of dollars would no longer leave the state to pay for federal boondoggles like Obamacare.

Texas gets about the same amount of money in federal spending that it pays in federal taxes. Texas would have to raise state taxes to replace all of that money.

As to Medicare and SS, anyone in Texas who was not already on Medicare or SS (and maybe them too) would have paid payroll taxes for as many years as they worked and would lose all of that,

because you can be sure the U.S. would not pay them any SS or Medicare when they reached eligibility age, if they have left the nation by secession.

Sell that to Texans, or anyone else in any state that wants to secede.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What grievances today rise to the level of justifying that a state leave the Union?

Or are we to assume that secession can be on a whim?

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like to see some state like Texas try to secede today, and have to explain why

1. most of the money Texans have paid into Social Security and Medicare would be lost.

2. tens of thousands of federal jobs would be leaving the state

...for starters...

1. There is no money in the Social Security or Medicare trust funds. Nothing lost there.
   
2. $billions of dollars would no longer leave the state to pay for federal boondoggles like Obamacare.

Texas gets about the same amount of money in federal spending that it pays in federal taxes. Texas would have to raise state taxes to replace all of that money.

As to Medicare and SS, anyone in Texas who was not already on Medicare or SS (and maybe them too) would have paid payroll taxes for as many years as they worked and would lose all of that,

because you can be sure the U.S. would not pay them any SS or Medicare when they reached eligibility age, if they have left the nation by secession.

Sell that to Texans, or anyone else in any state that wants to secede.

You're an idiot. There is no money in the federal treasury to pay them. All SS payments will come out of future taxes. In other words, the taxpayers of Texas will have to make good on the promises the federal government made regarding SS and Medicare. It won't make any difference whether Texas is a part of the union or not.

 

[thanatos144]

What grievances today rise to the level of justifying that a state leave the Union?

Or are we to assume that secession can be on a whim?

Obamacare

Welcome to my nightmare

 

[Contumacious]

Not only is ‘secession’ un-Constitutional, but no state ‘left’ the Union as a consequence of ‘secession’:

HUH?

WTF?

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Not only is ‘secession’ un-Constitutional, but no state ‘left’ the Union as a consequence of ‘secession’:

HUH?

WTF?

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

.

For example,

a state that seceded would presumably stop paying federal income and payroll taxes. The power to levy those taxes is held by the federal government, and is constitutional. Overturning federal tax law would not be a 10th amendment state right.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What grievances today rise to the level of justifying that a state leave the Union?

Or are we to assume that secession can be on a whim?

Obamacare

Welcome to my nightmare

That's it? lol. You people really are in the throes of hysteria.

 

[bripat9643]

Not only is ‘secession’ un-Constitutional, but no state ‘left’ the Union as a consequence of ‘secession’:

HUH?

WTF?

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

.

For example,

a state that seceded would presumably stop paying federal income and payroll taxes. The power to levy those taxes is held by the federal government, and is constitutional. Overturning federal tax law would not be a 10th amendment state right.

If a state secedes it is no longer subject to the federal government. Your argument boils down to saying that a state is still subject to the federal government after it secedes. In other words, you're a moron.

 

[Contumacious]

Not only is ‘secession’ un-Constitutional, but no state ‘left’ the Union as a consequence of ‘secession’:

HUH?

WTF?

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

.

For example,

a state that seceded would presumably stop paying federal income and payroll taxes. The power to levy those taxes is held by the federal government, and is constitutional. Overturning federal tax law would not be a 10th amendment state right.

Yo Ding

Show me by Article, Section and Clause the Constitutional proviso which states that the states intended to create a PERMANENT UNION AND WAIVED THEIR RIGHT TO SECEDE.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Except for the fact one of the South's greatest Generals was from WV and MANY units from WV fought for the south. The war was about independence from an over reaching government. Slavery had died out everywhere else peacefully and would have done so in the south as well.

What was the overreach exactly?

Invading the state of Virginia was overreach.

You're denying there's a constitutional authority for the government to put down domestic rebellion, insurrection, etc.?

lol

 

[bripat9643]

What grievances today rise to the level of justifying that a state leave the Union?

Or are we to assume that secession can be on a whim?

Obamacare

Welcome to my nightmare

That's it? lol. You people really are in the throes of hysteria.

• Obamacare
• 40% tax rate
• 80,000 page tax code
• NSA violations of the 4th Amendment
• IRS violations of the First Amendment
• Social Security boondoggle
• Medicare boondoggle
• Medicaid boondoggle
• Wall street bailout
• Subprime mortgage debacle.

The list goes on and on.

 

[NYcarbineer]

HUH?

WTF?

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

.

For example,

a state that seceded would presumably stop paying federal income and payroll taxes. The power to levy those taxes is held by the federal government, and is constitutional. Overturning federal tax law would not be a 10th amendment state right.

Yo Ding

Show me by Article, Section and Clause the Constitutional proviso which states that the states intended to create a PERMANENT UNION AND WAIVED THEIR RIGHT TO SECEDE.

.

Let's stick to the topic you brought up. The tenth amendment. What federal laws does the tenth amendment give states the right to violate?

 

[Contumacious]

What was the overreach exactly?

Invading the state of Virginia was overreach.

You're denying there's a constitutional authority for the government to put down domestic rebellion, insurrection, etc.?

lol

Yo Ding Dong

As SOVEREIGN STATES they have a right to say bye-bye.

Its not a ******* rebellion.

.

 

[bripat9643]

What was the overreach exactly?

Invading the state of Virginia was overreach.

You're denying there's a constitutional authority for the government to put down domestic rebellion, insurrection, etc.?

lol

Secession is not an insurrection. Lincoln sure didn't have authority to unilaterally declare war on half the country. He also didn't have authority to suspend habeas corpus, shut down opposition newspapers, throw people into concentration camps, execute people without a trial, arrest the state legislature of Maryland, etc., etc., etc..

 

[Contumacious]

For example,

a state that seceded would presumably stop paying federal income and payroll taxes. The power to levy those taxes is held by the federal government, and is constitutional. Overturning federal tax law would not be a 10th amendment state right.

Yo Ding

Show me by Article, Section and Clause the Constitutional proviso which states that the states intended to create a PERMANENT UNION AND WAIVED THEIR RIGHT TO SECEDE.

.

Let's stick to the topic you brought up. The tenth amendment. What federal laws does the tenth amendment give states the right to violate?

The bullshit questions you are asking are telling.

You failed US History.

Go back to night school.

.

 

[candycorn]

Are you really that ignorant of the Constitution?

He had the power to squash insurrection.

You wanna consider that mass murder? It's war.

He left out "freed the slaves"....I guess we'll hear next that there were no slaves; just employees who didn't know how to negotiate.

I'm beginning to believe you're actually retarded.

What--that I noticed the fact that you left out freeing the slaves? I wasn't surprised....you miss them good old days, don't you massah?