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Because I'm not 'woke'

yumegari

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It seems that you are attempting to deflect from what I said.
How so? You repeated an aspect of what I already said, "Columbus was one of them," as a refutation of what I said, when that statement was inherently accommodated by my argument.

Why is Columbus being one of the reasons that America was eventually founded a reason it should be a holiday, when there are many of those? Why not focus on the big ones, the direct ones, such as the actual independence from the British Empire (which we already celebrate)?
 

yumegari

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Your question answers itself.
Alright, so am I understanding this correctly, we should celebrate everything that directly or indirectly led to the founding of the United States? Or am I misunderstanding your position?
 

Unkotare

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Alright, so am I understanding this correctly, we should celebrate everything that directly or indirectly led to the founding of the United States? ....
We're talking about the first thing.
 

andaronjim

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How so? You repeated an aspect of what I already said, "Columbus was one of them," as a refutation of what I said, when that statement was inherently accommodated by my argument.

Why is Columbus being one of the reasons that America was eventually founded a reason it should be a holiday, when there are many of those? Why not focus on the big ones, the direct ones, such as the actual independence from the British Empire (which we already celebrate)?
Oh, i dont know, lets say because since he did find that the Earth wasnt flat, it was one of the reasons why the Japanese and Germans never won WWII. Thank Chris for that one...
 

yumegari

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Oh, i dont know, lets say because since he did find that the Earth wasnt flat, it was one of the reasons why the Japanese and Germans never won WWII. Thank Chris for that one...
Incredible. Also I'm not sure if you're joking, but it was well-known the Earth wasn't flat long before that point.
 

Uncensored2008

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Yeah, and a number of founding fathers. Why wouldn't I be?

Most wokesters call the founding father "dead white guys" and try to pull down their statues.


"You claim to be a student of history, yet you either aren't familiar with every single concept of history and/or you do not view the implications of that concept in the same light as I do."

Ah yes.

Anyway, I can't say I know much about the market revolution, though I'm familiar with it. I know that the market revolution is the basis of modern, 20th and 21st century capitalism, but that's about it.

???

The market revolution was circa 1780.


Although, I'm not sure that all of the implications you're associating with the market revolution are truly there. Yes, since the market revolution we have seen a drastic increase in the production of goods, specifically food. Has hunger been eradicated? Well, we certainly have enough food to eradicate hunger, so I'll at least give you that one. However, it isn't as if the production of enough goods to support society, or even to support a growing populace, hasn't been a feature of capitalist societies prior to that point. And I'd argue that the radical consumerism we see today is the natural consequence of this market revolution, and isn't desirable.

But then you think Columbus didn't do anything significant, so it appears that you fail to grasp the impact of events in general.

Even assuming that the market revolution was categorically good, it doesn't mean in the absence of the New World a market revolution would've never occurred. It wasn't necessarily the United States that had to lead it, we just happened to be in the position do that at that time.

No even in human history has had as much of a positive impact on the human condition as the market revolution. It was the transformation from sustenance to plenty. It gave leisure time to the masses - which is the only reason you have an education, such as it may be.

Alright, so "Google" and libraries. I have a very sizable collection of books, and I regularly attend my region's library. What separates my sources from yours?


Anything wrong with this? It seems to use a lot of primary sources.

Nothing "wrong" with it other than it is a revisionist history written to oppose the established factual history, as the author notes. He is attempting to create an "alternative" history.

Indeed.

Well that's an aspect of discussion, sometimes we will misunderstanding the position of others. It is key that we try to correct that misunderstanding when it arises.

Meh

I haven't thoroughly studied Marx, so I will defer on this. However, I still hold that it's impossible to disagree with every single aspect of a system of beliefs. There's too much overlap, even between disparate ideals.

You declared that Marx supported gun rights, a claim that is the opposite of the facts, as I demonstrated.

You're ignoring the rest of what I just said. I said "there were many things that led to the United States, there are many that are more relevant, therefore we should celebrate those that bear more direct relevance to the foundation of the United States."

You made a claim that Columbus is irrelevant, a claim that is patently absurd.
 

Uncensored2008

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OK, you engage with the snowflake, but for someone who can't even handle that Greek-American idiot, I'm not optimistic..
I've engaged her and she seems polite and willing to discuss issues. I wish more posters were like her.
 

yumegari

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Most wokesters call the founding father "dead white guys" and try to pull down their statues.

So I'm not a wokester. Cool.
???

The market revolution was circa 1780.

I didn't know the exact years, but that still doesn't mean it wasn't the basis for modern capitalism, which accelerated most strongly (to my understanding) during the 20th and now the 21st century.
But then you think Columbus didn't do anything significant, so it appears that you fail to grasp the impact of events in general.
I might be misremembering my argument, but I'm not sure I said Columbus didn't do anything significant. I believe I acknowledged his accomplishment was monumental, both unto itself, and consequentially. My assertion was that the significance of his discovery of the New World wasn't positive.
No even in human history has had as much of a positive impact on the human condition as the market revolution. It was the transformation from sustenance to plenty. It gave leisure time to the masses - which is the only reason you have an education, such as it may be.

Nothing "wrong" with it other than it is a revisionist history written to oppose the established factual history, as the author notes. He is attempting to create an "alternative" history.
The argument between the established and the revisionist isn't even other whether smallpox affected the Aztecs, the argument is over to what extent. Every source I find starts with the basic assumption that smallpox was a thing in the Aztec Empire, because that is corroborated by primary sources. To what extent is what the ongoing debate is about.
You declared that Marx supported gun rights, a claim that is the opposite of the facts, as I demonstrated.
You may very well be right. Like I said, I've yet to read Marx's works directly. I have a vague counterargument based on my understanding of Marx's philosophy, but that understanding isn't firmly backed up, so I don't even want to argue it in the first place. I should have used an example I could more firmly back up.
You made a claim that Columbus is irrelevant, a claim that is patently absurd.
Once again, I don't think he was irrelevant at all. I would call a similar claim absurd as well, the discovery of the New World is one of the most consequential events in history.
 
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Why is Columbus being one of the reasons that America was eventually founded a reason it should be a holiday, when there are many of those? Why not focus on the big ones, the direct ones, such as the actual independence from the British Empire (which we already celebrate)?
Don't Cross Off Chris

The Latin slogan on our dollar bill, Annuit Coeptis (Audacibus), means "Luck is on the side of those who take risks," which is why Christopher Columbus can be honored in the United States as the first American. His achievement established the attitude necessary for every American success since.

But we have lost our way. Honoring mindless savages who wandered aimlessly over two continents is typical of how off-track we have been the last six decadent decades. The only way back is to boldly take the risk of secession, leaving the unAmerican Democrat states to their degenerate pursuit of Hippiness.
 

Billyboom

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The Latin slogan on our dollar bill, Annuit Coeptis (Audacibus), means "Luck is on the side of those who take risks," which is why Christopher Columbus can be honored in the United States as the first American.
91B48097-19EF-46DE-AC71-F5BEC4AF3AA3.jpeg
 

DrLove

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Unkotare

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...The only way back is to boldly take the risk of secession, ......
Have you forgotten already what happened the last time racist, treasonous dogs like you tried to break up my Union? It would go even worse for a weakling like you.
 

Uncensored2008

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Actually, it was a humanitarian disaster, between the genocide of Native Americans and the institution of a trans-Atlantic slave trade that followed.

Does it hurt to be that stupid? I mean, physical pain?
 

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