Battle of the Bulge

[harmonica]

16 Dec 1944 --start of the BOB
the US forces- cold, wet, sometimes outnumbered and out gunned
a surprise to many in the quiet Ardennes
probably my favorite battle to read about

of course some of these pics are staged
Colorized photographs show the Battle of the Bulge in one of the final battles of World War II | Daily Mail Online

 

[harmonica]

my grade school pastor was at the BOB
lost his toes from frostbite I think
he was a a disciplinarian

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The defense of Bastogne was epic. The Germans thought they were up against a force 10 times greater than actually held the town

 

[harmonica]

The defense of Bastogne was epic. The Germans thought they were up against a force 10 times greater than actually held the town

and the Germans came ''close'' to breaking the ''last''/etc battle line
I think I read it last year, they had to scramble to find troops to cover a German attack

 

[harmonica]

from Fatal Crossroads:

for the typical soldier each day was an effort for shelter: Improve the foxhole or bunker, and find a fire to stay warm......this was the ''Ghost Front''.

 

[Oddball]

NUTS!

 

[Oddball]

 

[harmonica]

NUTS!

....like the Marines outnumbered and surrounded at the Chosin, they had confidence in themselves to get through, just like the 101st/etc at Bastogne
..this response shows it

 

[whitehall]

By December 1945 it was clear that Germany lost the war. For some reason Ike was instructed to stand down and rumors of "home for Christmas" went around while American troops relaxed. It was the worst intelligence failure in military history with around 30,000 American lives lost but media spin turned it into a victory with stories about American troops refusing to surrender at Bastogne when they owned the real estate a month before.

 

[K9Buck]

Hitler was desperate and delusional.

 

[harmonica]

Hitler was desperate and delusional.

humans do a lot of wishful thinking--especially when they are desperate
[ ie someone needing money will commit a very dumb crime thinking they will never be caught ]
Germany was done for sure in June 1941
yes, he was delusional
many German military personnel knew there was no hope

The German army commander in the West, Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt, thought the plan too ambitious. Other commanders also objected to taking resources away from the Eastern Front for this operation, but Hitler overruled them all.

Battle of The Bulge | HistoryNet
etc etc

 

[harmonica]

Manhay

 

[Picaro]

German desperation. Even if they had reached their goals they wouldn't have had the resources to hold on to anything, they had no reserves and no supplies, even accounting for the unlikely events of seizing depots. Their flanks would have been nothing.

 

[Syriusly]

By December 1945 it was clear that Germany lost the war. For some reason Ike was instructed to stand down and rumors of "home for Christmas" went around while American troops relaxed. It was the worst intelligence failure in military history with around 30,000 American lives lost but media spin turned it into a victory with stories about American troops refusing to surrender at Bastogne when they owned the real estate a month before.

Except of course- none of that is true.
The Allies were on the offensive both north and south of the Ardennes- there was no instruction to stand down- though of course American troops were hoping for a quick end to the war.

Hitler, like he did a few times, managed to through the dart at the right place- sort of. Yes the Ardennes had weak American forces- but the Ardennes was a great bottleneck. The Germans did do well to deceive allied intelligence, and while the bad weather held they did reasonably well but the Ardennes was a nightmare for tanks- small roadblocks slowed down German advances where in other places they could just go around them.

Strategically of course the Bulge was a disaster for Germany- those troops could have been used to defend against the USSR advancing on Berlin- that battle probably shortened the war by 3 months.

 

[whitehall]

Sure Germany was desperate and Hitler was insane but why was Ike attending a series of Christmas parties while Americans could actually hear the roar of freaking tanks as they relaxed in what they thought was a secure area? Somebody should have gone to jail but the media immediately took the offensive proclaiming the tragedy of the Ardennes offensive to be some sort of victory for the allies because some American general said "Nuts" to a German. Pop history is an amazing thing.

 

[Picaro]

Well, there was a good reason that area was chosen for R&R and regrouping broken units; only an idiot would have chosen to launch a major breakout there. 'Complete surprise' is only a good thing where there is something there you can exploit, and there was nothing to justify that in that area, as it was too far away from any achievable strategic goal. Mere momentary confusion and disruption at such a great cost with nothing permanent is merely insanity and waste, not 'genius'.

 

[whitehall]

Well, there was a good reason that area was chosen for R&R and regrouping broken units; only an idiot would have chosen to launch a major breakout there. 'Complete surprise' is only a good thing where there is something there you can exploit, and there was nothing to justify that in that area, as it was too far away from any achievable strategic goal. Mere momentary confusion and disruption at such a great cost with nothing permanent is merely insanity and waste, not 'genius'.

"Only an idiot"? About 20,000 Americans died because Ike was enjoying a series of Christmas parties and the Troops assumed that they would be home for Christmas. The FDR/Truman administration controlled the media at the time so the incredible negligence by the commanders and whatever passed as "intelligence" was ignored and the U.S. pretended that the Bastogne defenders symbolized a victory for the Allies rather than a tragic mistake.

 

[rightwinger]

NUTS!

Supposedly, he said something more profane than Nuts!

 

[rightwinger]

Sure Germany was desperate and Hitler was insane but why was Ike attending a series of Christmas parties while Americans could actually hear the roar of freaking tanks as they relaxed in what they thought was a secure area? Somebody should have gone to jail but the media immediately took the offensive proclaiming the tragedy of the Ardennes offensive to be some sort of victory for the allies because some American general said "Nuts" to a German. Pop history is an amazing thing.

Bottom line is Hitler overplayed his hand and failed
His decision hastened the collapse of the Western Front

 

[whitehall]

Sure Germany was desperate and Hitler was insane but why was Ike attending a series of Christmas parties while Americans could actually hear the roar of freaking tanks as they relaxed in what they thought was a secure area? Somebody should have gone to jail but the media immediately took the offensive proclaiming the tragedy of the Ardennes offensive to be some sort of victory for the allies because some American general said "Nuts" to a German. Pop history is an amazing thing.

Bottom line is Hitler overplayed his hand and failed
His decision hastened the collapse of the Western Front

Hitler shouldn't have had a hand to play. FDR was dying and Ike was apparently instructed to stand down pending the arrival of the Russian allies and a lot of Americans died. Modern under-educated "historians" brush it off because they were taught to trust FDR no matter what.