Battle of the Bulge the most notorious intelligence failure in US history Dec. 16 1944

[whitehall]

I apologize for jumping the gun, so to speak.

The gun speaks for itself. American G.I.'s were looking forward to going home for Christmas and Ike was attending Christmas parties while the Germans were obviously gearing up for a last ditch offensive. Who the hell was in charge?

 

[Dante]

The gun speaks for itself. American G.I.'s were looking forward to going home for Christmas and Ike was attending Christmas parties while the Germans were obviously gearing up for a last ditch offensive. Who the hell was in charge?

I believe you're missing the boat on this one, but okay.

 

[whitehall]

I believe you're missing the boat on this one, but okay.

Where is the boat? My point was that a gigantic failure of intelligence coupled with a lapse in leadership caused the U.S. Army to be unprepared for an offensive which cost the lives of 20,000 Americans and 50,000 casualties.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The victors write the history books and maybe that's fair enough. The media told Americans that General McAuliffe was a hero for a note to Germans when he lost his entire command at Bastogne. American G.I.'s were sure that the Germans were done and they would be home for Christmas in 1944. On Dec. 16 Ike was attending a series of Christmas parties and probably enjoying several glasses of liberated French wine while everyone on the front lines who was sober could hear ominous diesel exhaust from German tanks. Ike should have been relieved of duty after his failure of leadership led to the almost successful German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge or the Ardennes Offensive. .

You need to read some history. The Americans under McAuliffe had 23,000 troops in Bastogne, their total casualties were 3,000. that just over ten percent of his command. Plus there were good reasons to hold Bastogne to the last man if necessary. It was a, or perhaps even THE, critical road junction for the German offensive. As long as Bastogne remained in American hands the German offensive was crippled.

 

[Mushroom]

My point was that a gigantic failure of intelligence

And what intelligence exactly did we have that warned of this?

 

[Zebra]

The victors write the history books and maybe that's fair enough. The media told Americans that General McAuliffe was a hero for a note to Germans when he lost his entire command at Bastogne. American G.I.'s were sure that the Germans were done and they would be home for Christmas in 1944. On Dec. 16 Ike was attending a series of Christmas parties and probably enjoying several glasses of liberated French wine while everyone on the front lines who was sober could hear ominous diesel exhaust from German tanks. Ike should have been relieved of duty after his failure of leadership led to the almost successful German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge or the Ardennes Offensive. .

interesting viewpoint!

 

[whitehall]

You need to read some history. The Americans under McAuliffe had 23,000 troops in Bastogne, their total casualties were 3,000. that just over ten percent of his command. Plus there were good reasons to hold Bastogne to the last man if necessary. It was a, or perhaps even THE, critical road junction for the German offensive. As long as Bastogne remained in American hands the German offensive was crippled.

General McAuliffe ended up in a farmhouse surrounded by Germans. How the fuk did that happen? It makes my point that his troops carried on regardless of his lack of leadership and negligence that was part of the collapse of the American lines on Dec. 16 1944.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

You guys are boobs if you think McAuliffe surrendered his command. It was surrounded at Bastogne, held on until the 10th Armored relieved it. The command was rock of the American resistance.

During the Battle of the Bulge in World War II, General Anthony McAuliffe was the acting commander of the 101st Airborne Division defending Bastogne, Belgium. On December 22, 1944, he was presented with a formal demand from the German XXXXVII Panzer Korps that he surrender Bastogne. In response, McAuliffe famously replied with a one-word message: “Nuts!” 12345

This reply has become a symbol of American resistance and determination in the face of adversity. McAuliffe’s refusal to surrender inspired his troops and helped to turn the tide of the battle in favor of the Allies.

 

[whitehall]

You guys are boobs if you think McAuliffe surrendered his command. It was surrounded at Bastogne, held on until the 10th Armored relieved it. The command was rock of the American resistance.

During the Battle of the Bulge in World War II, General Anthony McAuliffe was the acting commander of the 101st Airborne Division defending Bastogne, Belgium. On December 22, 1944, he was presented with a formal demand from the German XXXXVII Panzer Korps that he surrender Bastogne. In response, McAuliffe famously replied with a one-word message: “Nuts!” 12345

This reply has become a symbol of American resistance and determination in the face of adversity. McAuliffe’s refusal to surrender inspired his troops and helped to turn the tide of the battle in favor of the Allies.

The error in logic is assuming that Bastogne needed to be defended when it wasn't. Army intelligence never dreamed that General McAuliffe would be caught in a farmhouse surrounded by Germans when everyone thought the war was over. The little French town was the center of the planning of the American offensive that could have ended the war. The offensive was stalled because Army Intelligence assumed that the Germans were defeated and the Troops could take a break and get drunk. I rest my case about the most notorious intelligence failure in WW2.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The error in logic is assuming that Bastogne needed to be defended when it wasn't. Army intelligence never dreamed that General McAuliffe would be caught in a farmhouse surrounded by Germans when everyone thought the war was over. The little French town was the center of the planning of the American offensive that could have ended the war. The offensive was stalled because Army Intelligence assumed that the Germans were defeated and the Troops could take a break and get drunk. I rest my case about the most notorious intelligence failure in WW2.

Bullcrap. Bastogne was the hub of the roads that fed the Ardennes region. As long as it was held the German offensive was doomed. Holding it was vital.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The error in logic is assuming that Bastogne needed to be defended when it wasn't. Army intelligence never dreamed that General McAuliffe would be caught in a farmhouse surrounded by Germans when everyone thought the war was over. The little French town was the center of the planning of the American offensive that could have ended the war. The offensive was stalled because Army Intelligence assumed that the Germans were defeated and the Troops could take a break and get drunk. I rest my case about the most notorious intelligence failure in WW2.

It was a bad intelligence failure, yes.

Holding Bastogne was vindicated by the rapid advances by the Allies in January,

 

[whitehall]

Bullcrap. Bastogne was the hub of the roads that fed the Ardennes region. As long as it was held the German offensive was doomed. Holding it was vital.

That's my point. Intelligence determined that holding Bastogne wasn't a problem while Ike attended Christmas parties and G.I.'s celebrated with homemade booze. Americans had the initiative and the power to crush what was left of the German forces and they blew it by thinking the job was done.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

My goodness. They DID hold the road junctions at Bastogne is the point. The Germans went around it, but could not take it. When the 10th Armored broke through the German corridor to relieve the town, the Bulge sealed the coming defeat of Nazi Germany.

 

[whitehall]

My goodness. They DID hold the road junctions at Bastogne is the point. The Germans went around it, but could not take it. When the 10th Armored broke through the German corridor to relieve the town, the Bulge sealed the coming defeat of Nazi Germany.

We lost almost half the number of total losses in Korea and Vietnam in a battle late in WW2 that should not have happened but the media convinced America that it was a victory. Perhaps it was a victory but it took them 20,000 lives and 50,000 casualties when they should have rolled over what was left on the German defenses when they had the chance.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

It took them 20,000 lives and 50,000 casualties when they should have rolled over what was left on the German defenses when they had the chance.

Whether that could have done by wnter is something else. Market Garden's failure informed the Allies the Nazis had plenty left in the tank.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My Ol' Man fought under Patton in the Battle of the Bulge. He was Drill Sargeant and taught motor pool at Fort Benning near Stark, Florida, for much of the war.

I was born on D-Day (June 6, 1944) at Fort Benning. A few weeks later, he was shipped to somewhere in the NE for advanced military training. He caught up with Patton's 3rd Army before he pulled out of one battle and headed toward the Nazi-encircled city of Bastogne.

I have dozens of the letters he wrote home to my Mom. He never said a word about how tough the battles were or how cold and tough it was. I found and read these after they had both died.

I knew he had lost his leg, but nowhere near the whole story. He never said. It was one of the bloodiest battles of the war.

My Mom had sent him a watch; they were deep in the battle, and he wasn’t in very good spirits. He had several watches and rings. They took the rings and watches from the corpses as they fought.

This letter was sent to my Dad in October and returned in January with no record. I can't imagine what my Mom and thousands of others went through, not knowing.

All sides made mistakes throughout the war. To say General Eisenhower should have been fired is just plain stupid and nothing more than clickbait.

Mom, Dad, Me, and Tom, one of our German Shepherds who also went to war. Tom didn't come home; Jerry, his sister, did and proceeded to raise me.

I truly appreciate your supplying these important letters, but I have a question regarding the bolded text. How can he be at Fort Benning near Stark, FL.?

Fort Benning is in Georgia and Camp Blanding is near Stark. FL. I went to college near Benning, and my family had a place on the lake near Camp Blanding.

Thanks again for posting these letters!

 

[Oddball]

General McAuliffe ended up in a farmhouse surrounded by Germans. How the fuk did that happen? It makes my point that his troops carried on regardless of his lack of leadership and negligence that was part of the collapse of the American lines on Dec. 16 1944.

He was ordered to secure an area that was destined to be surrounded.....Little wonder he ended up being....wait for it........surrounded.

 

[Mushroom]

I rest my case about the most notorious intelligence failure in WW2.

And I ask once again. Exactly what intelligence did they have that was missed?

Failing to uncover the plans of the enemy is not an "intelligence failure". Especially during wartime, it is actually common to actually have intelligence and not use it.

You keep saying over and over this is an intelligence failure. So what was the intelligence that they had that said an attack was coming, and where?

 

[Zincwarrior]

It was a surprise because it was so monumentally stupid. The threat of the attack was effectively stopped when Pieper's formation was cut off and mauled just a few days in (Dec 19). Turns out German wonder weapons were crap. It resulted in a massive WALLIED victory.

 

[Zincwarrior]

We lost almost half the number of total losses in Korea and Vietnam in a battle late in WW2 that should not have happened but the media convinced America that it was a victory. Perhaps it was a victory but it took them 20,000 lives and 50,000 casualties when they should have rolled over what was left on the German defenses when they had the chance.

It cost the Germans 100,000 casualties, 500 armored vehicles, and 800 aircraft. The Luftwaffe was destroyed with Bodenplatte, and the German formations mauled to be near useless. When the weather turned, it was followed with the Ruhr envelopment (330,000 dead and prisoners), and was effectively the end of German resistance in the West.