Battle of the Bulge the most notorious intelligence failure in US history Dec. 16 1944

[Mushroom]

Has nothing to do with Unz’s book.

Why Everything You Know About World War II Is Wrong

Mike Whitney Interview with Ron Unz

www.unz.com

Obviously you missed it once again, but I referenced an article about that very book on his own site!

You know, this is the most silly series of responses you have ever given. Two times in a row failing to realize that I not only am familiar with him and his work, but even quoting and posting a link about an extensive article about the book itself by Ron Utz himself.

And I mean what I said already about brain rot and those who buy into conspiracy theories. This only seems to confirm it. You are so busy attacking and denying that you do not even see that I was referencing that author and a massive write-up.

Why Everything You Know About World War II Is Wrong

Mike Whitney Interview with Ron Unz

www.unz.com

Now tell me once again how nothing I posted had anything to do with his book.

 

[Mushroom]

Has nothing to do with Unz’s book. He has stated many times his website is a free speech site. He allows for all opinions.

Are you a Fascist that wants to silence opinions viewed as unacceptable by the establishment?

Read his book. It’s fully documented and far more accurate than the silly shit you’ve accepted as truth from 4th grade history class.

But to circle back to this again.

Every one of those articles I quoted was not written by just anybody. Each and every one of them was written by Ron Utz himself. So you can't hide behind that shield that they allow "free speech". That was his words himself, not just something posted there he was not involved in.

And where did I say that Ron Utz should be silenced? Nowhere, nor would I. I believe everybody has a right to free speech, even a half-brain dead moron. I have even stated quite clearly that I believe both the KKK and ANTIFA deserve freedom of speech protection. I have not called for him to be silenced at all.

However, people who read crap like he writes should be aware of him and his stances, and make an informed decision to take him at all seriously, or simply dismiss him as yet another kook conspiracy nut.

And no, I am not reading his book. The article of over 12,700 words I read about it already made me lose quite a few brain cells I am afraid. I can't imagine ever subjecting myself to reading anything else he ever wrote. It is all garbage, and should be flushed along with the writings of Hitler and Marx.

 

[gipper]

But to circle back to this again.

Every one of those articles I quoted was not written by just anybody. Each and every one of them was written by Ron Utz himself. So you can't hide behind that shield that they allow "free speech". That was his words himself, not just something posted there he was not involved in.

And where did I say that Ron Utz should be silenced? Nowhere, nor would I. I believe everybody has a right to free speech, even a half-brain dead moron. I have even stated quite clearly that I believe both the KKK and ANTIFA deserve freedom of speech protection. I have not called for him to be silenced at all.

However, people who read crap like he writes should be aware of him and his stances, and make an informed decision to take him at all seriously, or simply dismiss him as yet another kook conspiracy nut.

And no, I am not reading his book. The article of over 12,700 words I read about it already made me lose quite a few brain cells I am afraid. I can't imagine ever subjecting myself to reading anything else he ever wrote. It is all garbage, and should be flushed along with the writings of Hitler and Marx.

Don’t care. Your efforts to derail my point by character assassination is recognized and ignored.

Read the book I referenced and then we can talk.

 

[gipper]

But to circle back to this again.

Every one of those articles I quoted was not written by just anybody. Each and every one of them was written by Ron Utz himself. So you can't hide behind that shield that they allow "free speech". That was his words himself, not just something posted there he was not involved in.

And where did I say that Ron Utz should be silenced? Nowhere, nor would I. I believe everybody has a right to free speech, even a half-brain dead moron. I have even stated quite clearly that I believe both the KKK and ANTIFA deserve freedom of speech protection. I have not called for him to be silenced at all.

However, people who read crap like he writes should be aware of him and his stances, and make an informed decision to take him at all seriously, or simply dismiss him as yet another kook conspiracy nut.

And no, I am not reading his book. The article of over 12,700 words I read about it already made me lose quite a few brain cells I am afraid. I can't imagine ever subjecting myself to reading anything else he ever wrote. It is all garbage, and should be flushed along with the writings of Hitler and Marx.

FDR provoked Japan via ridiculous sanctions and demands. He moved the Pacific fleet to Pearl Harbor knowing full well it couldn’t be protected from aerial attack.

His intelligence units had cracked Japan’s military code and tracked the Japanese fleet moving toward Pearl Harbor. He moved out the carriers and his favorite battleship just in time. Leaving obsolete naval vessels in port for destruction.

He refused to forewarn Pearl commanders and scapegoated them after the attack.

He was desperate to go to war to stay in power and overcome the Great Depression, even though he campaigned for the 1940 election proclaiming no American boys will go to war.

 

[Mushroom]

Your efforts to derail my point by character assassination is recognized and ignored.

How exactly is it "character assassination", when I am quoting his own words from his own webzine?

 

[AZrailwhale]

FDR provoked Japan via ridiculous sanctions and demands. He moved the Pacific fleet to Pearl Harbor knowing full well it couldn’t be protected from aerial attack.

His intelligence units had cracked Japan’s military code and tracked the Japanese fleet moving toward Pearl Harbor. He moved out the carriers and his favorite battleship just in time. Leaving obsolete naval vessels in port for destruction.

He refused to forewarn Pearl commanders and scapegoated them after the attack.

He was desperate to go to war to stay in power and overcome the Great Depression, even though he campaigned for the 1940 election proclaiming no American boys will go to war.

One there were one hundred fifty-two first line Army fighters on Oahu on December 7th, 1941, plus a number of Navy and Marine Corps fighters. There were only one hundred eighty-three total aircraft in the first Japanese attack wave, so the Army, Marine Corps and Navy fighters had numerical parity with the Japanese attacking aircraft of ALL types. That was far more fighters than were available to defend San Diego, the home base of the Pacific Fleet before it moved to Pearl Harbor. So the Pacific Fleet COULD be protected from aerial attack better than in CONUS.

Second, the Kido Butai had the crystals removed from its transmitters before it sailed to attack Pearl Harbor so it was impossible for anyone to be tracking radio transmissions, plus the Japanese had radio operators taken from those ships left behind to transmit normal traffic (in case you don't know, a reasonably skilled radio operator can recognize the "fist" or transmission patterns of other operators). Radio intercepts showed the Japanese carriers to be at home in harbor.

Third, the only obsolete ships at Pearl Harbor were the demilitarized ex-battleship Utah which was used as a target ship and two light cruisers of the obsolete Omaha Class that was built just post WWI, the USS Raleigh and USS Detroit and the Wickes Class destroyer USS Ward of similar antiquity. Every other ship there was a first line combatant. No battleships were removed from Pearl Harbor prior to the attack.

Fourth, the US hadn't "cracked" JN25, the IJN code, it had broken the Japanese DIPLOMATIC CODE which said nothing about where hostilities were going to commence.

The War Department sent out a war warning to all Pacific units before the attack, but the conventional wisdom was that Japan lacked the refueling capacity to reach Pearl Harbor (which was true, Japan had to impress nearly all of its modern tankers to provide enough fuel to support the attack) so the attack would fall on the Philippines and/or Malaya. In any case the last alert didn't get to Hawaii in time due to bad atmospherics and had to be sent in code via Western Union civilian telegraph and wasn't delivered until after the attack.

Lastly, and the only thing I agree with you on, is that Short and Kimmel were scapegoats. But as the people in charge with the responsibility for the lack of real preparation fell to them. In the military, the commander is always left holding the bag for failure and gets the kudos for success. Both could have done far more to minimize the damage IF they had taken the Japanese navy seriously, but no one else did either.

 

[gipper]

One there were one hundred fifty-two first line Army fighters on Oahu on December 7th, 1941, plus a number of Navy and Marine Corps fighters. There were only one hundred eighty-three total aircraft in the first Japanese attack wave, so the Army, Marine Corps and Navy fighters had numerical parity with the Japanese attacking aircraft of ALL types. That was far more fighters than were available to defend San Diego, the home base of the Pacific Fleet before it moved to Pearl Harbor. So the Pacific Fleet COULD be protected from aerial attack better than in CONUS.

Second, the Kido Butai had the crystals removed from its transmitters before it sailed to attack Pearl Harbor so it was impossible for anyone to be tracking radio transmissions, plus the Japanese had radio operators taken from those ships left behind to transmit normal traffic (in case you don't know, a reasonably skilled radio operator can recognize the "fist" or transmission patterns of other operators). Radio intercepts showed the Japanese carriers to be at home in harbor.

Third, the only obsolete ships at Pearl Harbor were the demilitarized ex-battleship Utah which was used as a target ship and two light cruisers of the obsolete Omaha Class that was built just post WWI, the USS Raleigh and USS Detroit and the Wickes Class destroyer USS Ward of similar antiquity. Every other ship there was a first line combatant. No battleships were removed from Pearl Harbor prior to the attack.

Fourth, the US hadn't "cracked" JN25, the IJN code, it had broken the Japanese DIPLOMATIC CODE which said nothing about where hostilities were going to commence.

The War Department sent out a war warning to all Pacific units before the attack, but the conventional wisdom was that Japan lacked the refueling capacity to reach Pearl Harbor (which was true, Japan had to impress nearly all of its modern tankers to provide enough fuel to support the attack) so the attack would fall on the Philippines and/or Malaya. In any case the last alert didn't get to Hawaii in time due to bad atmospherics and had to be sent in code via Western Union civilian telegraph and wasn't delivered until after the attack.

Lastly, and the only thing I agree with you on, is that Short and Kimmel were scapegoats. But as the people in charge with the responsibility for the lack of real preparation fell to them. In the military, the commander is always left holding the bag for failure and gets the kudos for success. Both could have done far more to minimize the damage IF they had taken the Japanese navy seriously, but no one else did either.

It’s clear FDR was desperate to get the nation to war. While telling the people no American boys will fight in foreign wars during the 1940 campaign for his third term, in opposition to the two term precedent followed by all prior presidents. He was arming the Brits and antagonizing the Germans, in the hopes they’d do another Lusitania that Wilson used to set up entering WWI. See a pattern?

FDR moved the Pacific fleet to Pearl, even though he was told it couldn’t be protected from attack. He fired the navy commander who opposed the move, and replaced him with a yes man.

He than placed ever increasing sanctions and demands on Japan, in the hopes they would attack Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese naval code was broken months prior and FDR followed the Japanese navy moving toward Pearl, without ever issuing a warning.

This is an old tactic used by rulers since the beginning of time. Its very likely Bibi did this exact thing setting up Oct 7.

Read it.

 

[gipper]

. In the military, the commander is always left holding the bag for failure and gets the kudos for success. Both could have done far more to minimize the damage IF they had taken the Japanese navy seriously, but no one else did either.

Not true. No one in the military paid a price after 9/11.

 

[AZrailwhale]

It’s clear FDR was desperate to get the nation to war. While telling the people no American boys will fight in foreign wars during the 1940 campaign for his third term, in opposition to the two term precedent followed by all prior presidents. He was arming the Brits and antagonizing the Germans, in the hopes they’d do another Lusitania that Wilson used to set up entering WWI. See a pattern?

FDR moved the Pacific fleet to Pearl, even though he was told it couldn’t be protected from attack. He fired the navy commander who opposed the move, and replaced him with a yes man.

He than placed ever increasing sanctions and demands on Japan, in the hopes they would attack Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese naval code was broken months prior and FDR followed the Japanese navy moving toward Pearl, without ever issuing a warning.

This is an old tactic used by rulers since the beginning of time. Its very likely Bibi did this exact thing setting up Oct 7.

Read it.

You didn’t bother to read a word of what I posted did you?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Not true. No one in the military paid a price after 9/11.

9/11 wasn’t the military’s fault. It was a failure by the FBI and ICE.

 

[gipper]

9/11 wasn’t the military’s fault. It was a failure by the FBI and ICE.

Sure it was. We have a massive military and it couldn’t protect the homeland.

 

[gipper]

You didn’t bother to read a word of what I posted did you?

I did and agree with much of it. But you miss the big point. FDR knew the fleet was coming for Pearl and refused to warn. He needed a big event (we’ve heard this before) to change public opinion.

As you might know, the nation was very much against involvement in another war.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Sure it was. We have a massive military and it couldn’t protect the homeland.

Were Air Force fighters flying CAP missions over American cities on 9/11? NO. All of the airliners came from internal American airports, so the military had no role in their approval or anything else.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I did and agree with much of it. But you miss the big point. FDR knew the fleet was coming for Pearl and refused to warn. He needed a big event (we’ve heard this before) to change public opinion.

As you might know, the nation was very much against involvement in another war.

No he didn't. There was ZERO evidence that the Kido Butai was going to attack Pearl Harbor. I refuted every assertion you made with historical evidence. You are simply repeating conspiracy theories that have been debunked over and over and over again.

 

[gipper]

No he didn't. There was ZERO evidence that the Kido Butai was going to attack Pearl Harbor. I refuted every assertion you made with historical evidence. You are simply repeating conspiracy theories that have been debunked over and over and over again.

Huge evidence. It’s known as the Japanese Imperial Navy.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Huge evidence. It’s known as the Japanese Imperial Navy.

Are you really that stupid? What did the IJN say, “I am, so I will attack Pearl Harbor”? The British had a navy as well, did they attack Kiel?

 

[gipper]

Are you really that stupid? What did the IJN say, “I am, so I will attack Pearl Harbor”? The British had a navy as well, did they attack Kiel?

lol. What?

 

[AZrailwhale]

lol. What?

You claimed that your evidence that the IJN was going to attack Pearl Harbor was its simple existence. I pointed out the falsehood by switching navies and targets. Outside of your imagination, there was not only no credible evidence, but no evidence at all that the IJN intended to attack Pearl Harbor. The IJN was very good at keeping secrets, until Leyte Gulf, the USN was convinced that Musashi and Yamato were forty thousand or so ton ships that mounted sixteen inch guns, NOT seventy thousand ton monsters that mounted eighteen inch guns,