Ban affirmative action. Support equality based on merit.

[IM2]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar.

Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

Yes...it is. It is called racism no matter what the intent....and discriminating against people because people in the past with their same skin color did bad things is called racism....

In the past? Things are better; we are slowly convincing people that a black, a woman, a Latino, a Native American, can do an equally good job as the average white guy. But there are still plenty of people who don't see it and would still not give those people a chance to succeed or fail.

No, what people like you have done is convince people that minorities are getting ahead based upon the color of their skin or their gender, NOT their accomplishments or capabilities. There are facts to base that belief on, just look at the washout rates for minority students admitted to colleges under affirmative action programs. Scarce college slots are wasted on people who have no real chance of success. Promotions and jobs are the same way. Every woman or minority who is promoted is viewed by the other candidates as well as subordinates as getting promoted in spite of their performance not because of it. The bad ones get carried, the good ones have to work ten times as hard to disprove erroneous beliefs about their lack of competency. AA MIGHT have had a place when it was enacted, although I disagree, but when does it end? It existed my entire working life, will my great grandchildren be denied equal access to schools and jobs as well? You can’t use discrimination by further discrimination.

Whites have done what you claim here since the beginning of this country. Whites drop out of college too. Everything you say here is bullshit. When will whites like you drop the delusion? AA ends when whites stop practicing racism. White racial preference is an American tradition and it is so routine that whites like you either don't know that's what is happening or you know it and want to continue getting preferential treatment.

 

[IM2]

"If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses..."

Perhaps you need a reality check on this merit you ass is talking about. Because whites are not where they are today because of merit.

 

[JoeB131]

being white has nothing to do with it when youre related or banging the boss,,it happens no matter what color you are,,

Except white people represent most of the bosses, that's the problem.

Heck, I have even heard of half black/half Indian women rising all the way to the vice presidency by banging the boss.

Really? Having a consensual relationship 20 years ago got her the vice presidency?

I thought it was because she ran for office and distinguished herself in public service, but never mind. Racists are going to racist.

Standardized test scores define merit in universities in every functioning academic setting on the planet. And we have huge gaps

No, it just shows they are good at taking tests. I know people who got 1600 on their SAT's, and they are kind of morons.

The higher you go in society the more obvious it becomes.

Black Americans get no preferential treatment applying at McDonalds. Not true when you have a graduate degree. Considering hte gaps in admittance scores even the degrees are not worth the same.

Actually, what I see as we go up is a lot of people who were born on third base and thought they hit a triple. Trump and Bush are complete fucking morons but their wealth and privilege got them to the Presdiency, even after the people rejected them.

I see Indians all over the Republican party (i'm half indian). Other than black Americans we are per capita the most supportive of the democratic party, and generally more liberal than black america. That's definitely affirmative action at work. Aijit Pai? That prick, yup. He may be technically qualified but I know why they chose him over the others. There are so few Indians in the Republcian party when they get one it's easy to climb

Nicki Haley, Bobby Jindal, Pai

You mean the Bobby Jindal who thinks that exorcisms are a real thing?

Ah, you are falling into the fallacy of the "Good Minority". Did we bring Indians over here in boats in chains and subject them to hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow? Did we genocide the shit out of them like we did the Native Americans (who was also call "Indians" because white people are basically awful).

Now, the ironic thing is that in my Resume business, I deal with a lot of people from the Gujarat region of India. What I found out was that Gujarati are essentially the Black People of India- they are discriminated against culturally and legally, but a lot of them excel when they get here.

Of course, any Indian who gets here has to have some wealth and affluence. It's not like the good old day when Grandpa LudwigB131 could get into a boat with a couple of steamer trunks and get into the country.

 

[JoeB131]

Merit can mean you scored better on a standardized test.

And then you will claim math is racist....

No, it just means you are better at taking tests, or you had tutors who helped you prepare for the test. It doesn't mean "merit".

 

[Slyhunter]

Okay, so how do you want to go about dismantling the system that is in place?

remove skin color and gender from all applications,, problem solved,,,

It's not in any applications. They tried a study where they mixed up the names on resumes. The "black names" got picked WAY less than the white sounding names. When they swapped the names around and put the white names on the black people's resumes, the white names got picked. It wasn't their skills or their "merit's". The HR staff were picking the applicants they thought were white.

Harvard Study Says Minority Job Candidates Are 'Whitening' Their Resumes When Looking for Jobs

Ever changed your name on a resume to get more job interviews?

www.inc.com

PolitiFact.com - Do job-seekers with 'white' names get more callbacks than 'black' names?

The Sunday shows capped a turbulent week for race relations around the country, from the shooting of two officers in a n

www.politifact.com

put pictures with the apps and white names on black people and I bet the white names get picked more even when the pic shows a black man. In other words I bet it's not based on race.

 

[Slyhunter]

Merit can mean you scored better on a standardized test.

And then you will claim math is racist....

No, it just means you are better at taking tests, or you had tutors who helped you prepare for the test. It doesn't mean "merit".

Every day you show up to work you take a test proving your capable. Life is a test. So if your bad at taking test your wages may decrease and thaT IS OK.

 

[JoeB131]

put pictures with the apps and white names on black people and I bet the white names get picked more even when the pic shows a black man. In other words I bet it's not based on race.

You're babbling, buddy.

The point is, they've done the studies, where they've found that white names like "Greg" and "Emily" get 50% more call backs than black names like "Jamal" and "Lakeisha".

Now, it's a bit different now in that almost everyone has a linked in profile with their picture on it. But in 2005, they did this study and this is what they found.

 

[JoeB131]

Every day you show up to work you take a test proving your capable. Life is a test. So if your bad at taking test your wages may decrease and thaT IS OK.

Um.... no.

I've seen utterly useless people get promoted because they are the boss's drinking buddy or the boss's squeeze.

This is a story I love to tell, because it illustrates my point.

IN 2012, the company I worked for had three people leave our department, and being the kind of department we were, we held going away lunches for the people leaving.

The three people were
1) An Asian-American woman in her 50's who had been with the company for 9 years.
2) An African-American woman in her 30's, been with the company 2 years.
3) A white intern in her 20's. who had only been with the company three months.

The General Manager ( A white guy in his fifties) was technically in charge of our department, but he gave us very little direction, rarely held meetings with the group. He was invited to all three lunches.

Now- take a guess as to which one of these three women he took time out of his busy day to show up for one of these lunches.

Come on. You know you can do it.

And that's the point. Being white gave her more consideration on even a MINOR issue like a going-away lunch.

Now, I don't think this boss was racist and never heard him say anything remotely like that. I do remember that he let a black temp go to create a vacancy for one of his drinking buddies who had no qualifications for the job.

 

[EMH]

...
Not really. We’re you even alive during any of that?

Sorry to intrude on your conversation with IM2 and NewsVine Mariyam, but you are missing the point as to why Affirmative Action is necessary.
People brought up in poverty are deprived. They live in bad neighborhoods to have to go to bad schools with bad teachers, parents too busy scrambling for rent to have time to help them, lack or travel, computers, educated relatives to teach them things, etc.
People brought up in wealth have lots of advantages, like their own libraries of boos, computers, magazine subscriptions, stimulating trips and vacations to other countries, museums, art galleries, 2 parents, etc.

So why are there these economic disparities?
It usually has nothing to do with intelligence or aptitude.
The fact is that slavery took the production of many and gave it all to a few.
This disparity is passed on from generation to generation, even after slavery ended.
Blacks had no way to regain the wealth taken from them, and with wealth it is easy to generate more wealth, even after slavery was over.

So Affirmative Action is the only way.
And Affirmative Action is not where you give unqualified people jobs just to make your racial quotas look good.
All Affirmative Action means is that you take the poverty of the person's up bringing into account when you try to evaluate their potential. You just don't rely on standardized testing because standardized testing does not work for someone with a deprived childhood. That is true for all races. Standardized testing is not really very valid.

So you’d be in favor of AA based upon social and economic factors rather than race? Guess what, so would I and so would most responsible people.

No only racists. Because wealthy people of color still face racism. AA is not just about standardized tests.

Every time you use the word "racism" you are full of shit.

You are a black bigot, and you have spent your entire life being promoted because of skin color not merit, and you spew hate and lies at those who notice.

America will be a better place when Americans in unison shout


BULLSHIT!!

Whenever a black bigot affirmative action beneficiary showered with taxpayer funded handouts whines about racism....

 

[DBA]

We wouldn't want to miss a generation of snivelling losers; it just wouldn't be the same if by then everyone had figured out that we're equally capable when given a chance.

I guess I fail to see how a person who went to the same college but had lower grades and lower test scores is just as capable of becoming a doctor as their academic peer who just happens to be a different color. In fact, the non-minority may have come from a less affluent household as well and may have had to work through college while the minority student is on a minority only scholarship. One may get into medical school while the other is forced to change their plans despite being more qualified by every meaningful measurement. That is the very definition of racism and that is exactly what AA does. You can spin it all you would like and talk about how diversity makes us better, yada, yada, yada, but the bottom line is that a person’s race is the prevailing factor in some of these decisions and that is flat out wrong.

 

[DBA]

Every day you show up to work you take a test proving your capable. Life is a test. So if your bad at taking test your wages may decrease and thaT IS OK.

Um.... no.

I've seen utterly useless people get promoted because they are the boss's drinking buddy or the boss's squeeze.

This is a story I love to tell, because it illustrates my point.

IN 2012, the company I worked for had three people leave our department, and being the kind of department we were, we held going away lunches for the people leaving.

The three people were
1) An Asian-American woman in her 50's who had been with the company for 9 years.
2) An African-American woman in her 30's, been with the company 2 years.
3) A white intern in her 20's. who had only been with the company three months.

The General Manager ( A white guy in his fifties) was technically in charge of our department, but he gave us very little direction, rarely held meetings with the group. He was invited to all three lunches.

Now- take a guess as to which one of these three women he took time out of his busy day to show up for one of these lunches.

Come on. You know you can do it.

And that's the point. Being white gave her more consideration on even a MINOR issue like a going-away lunch.

Now, I don't think this boss was racist and never heard him say anything remotely like that. I do remember that he let a black temp go to create a vacancy for one of his drinking buddies who had no qualifications for the job.

Seems as though your goal in life is to attempt to change human nature. What about ugly people? Do you think they are discriminated against? Of course they are. Should we add them to the pool to benefit from AA? How about obese folks? Let’s add them too. What if your boss happens to like fat people, should he/she be forced to hire some skinny ones to enforce the idea of diversity in the work place? Wow, quite a confusing mess of rules we would have to follow to be truly consistent with our anti-discrimination quest. The entire premise is elementary, illogical, unsustainable and not surprisingly supported by childish, illogical, non-pragmatic folks who vote for Democrats.

 

[DBA]

We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...

You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar.

Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

Yes...it is. It is called racism no matter what the intent....and discriminating against people because people in the past with their same skin color did bad things is called racism....

In the past? Things are better; we are slowly convincing people that a black, a woman, a Latino, a Native American, can do an equally good job as the average white guy. But there are still plenty of people who don't see it and would still not give those people a chance to succeed or fail.

No, what people like you have done is convince people that minorities are getting ahead based upon the color of their skin or their gender, NOT their accomplishments or capabilities. There are facts to base that belief on, just look at the washout rates for minority students admitted to colleges under affirmative action programs. Scarce college slots are wasted on people who have no real chance of success. Promotions and jobs are the same way. Every woman or minority who is promoted is viewed by the other candidates as well as subordinates as getting promoted in spite of their performance not because of it. The bad ones get carried, the good ones have to work ten times as hard to disprove erroneous beliefs about their lack of competency. AA MIGHT have had a place when it was enacted, although I disagree, but when does it end? It existed my entire working life, will my great grandchildren be denied equal access to schools and jobs as well? You can’t use discrimination by further discrimination.

Whites have done what you claim here since the beginning of this country. Whites drop out of college too. Everything you say here is bullshit. When will whites like you drop the delusion? AA ends when whites stop practicing racism. White racial preference is an American tradition and it is so routine that whites like you either don't know that's what is happening or you know it and want to continue getting preferential treatment.

White and asian kids are not given an advantage getting into school. Black kids are. You think that is ok despite not taking anything else into account? A rich black kid from Beverly Hills with lesser qualifications could still benefit from AA, while a poor white kids from Arkansas could be left out. In what world is that the “right” thing to do?

 

[Resnic]

Affirmative action is very much like a union.

Yes there was a brief period of time where it was needed and served a purpose. But the need and purpose is WAYYYYYYYYY over now. and much like a union affirmative action is this perverted twisted thing that only exists to make money and gain some semblance of power.

They both were good things, but now are unnecessary because we have local and federal laws now. Now they are negatives that are far more negative than they ever were positive.

People should have to get by in life based on merit, ambition, experience, intelligence and desire. If those were the only factors we paid attention to then this would truly be a fair and equal world.

Giving someone special consideration and treatment based on skin color is not fair and equal.

 

[danielpalos]

The most unfair thing in the world is...Equal treatment for Unequals.

What are you talking about?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

 

[Slyhunter]

put pictures with the apps and white names on black people and I bet the white names get picked more even when the pic shows a black man. In other words I bet it's not based on race.

You're babbling, buddy.

The point is, they've done the studies, where they've found that white names like "Greg" and "Emily" get 50% more call backs than black names like "Jamal" and "Lakeisha".

Now, it's a bit different now in that almost everyone has a linked in profile with their picture on it. But in 2005, they did this study and this is what they found.

I bet a black man name joe gets picked before a white man named jamal. is what I'm saying. Put their pic up on the application and the black guy will still win. proof it's not about race.

 

[progressive hunter]

being white has nothing to do with it when youre related or banging the boss,,it happens no matter what color you are,,

Except white people represent most of the bosses, that's the problem.

Heck, I have even heard of half black/half Indian women rising all the way to the vice presidency by banging the boss.

Really? Having a consensual relationship 20 years ago got her the vice presidency?

I thought it was because she ran for office and distinguished herself in public service, but never mind. Racists are going to racist.

Standardized test scores define merit in universities in every functioning academic setting on the planet. And we have huge gaps

No, it just shows they are good at taking tests. I know people who got 1600 on their SAT's, and they are kind of morons.

The higher you go in society the more obvious it becomes.

Black Americans get no preferential treatment applying at McDonalds. Not true when you have a graduate degree. Considering hte gaps in admittance scores even the degrees are not worth the same.

Actually, what I see as we go up is a lot of people who were born on third base and thought they hit a triple. Trump and Bush are complete fucking morons but their wealth and privilege got them to the Presdiency, even after the people rejected them.

I see Indians all over the Republican party (i'm half indian). Other than black Americans we are per capita the most supportive of the democratic party, and generally more liberal than black america. That's definitely affirmative action at work. Aijit Pai? That prick, yup. He may be technically qualified but I know why they chose him over the others. There are so few Indians in the Republcian party when they get one it's easy to climb

Nicki Haley, Bobby Jindal, Pai

You mean the Bobby Jindal who thinks that exorcisms are a real thing?

Ah, you are falling into the fallacy of the "Good Minority". Did we bring Indians over here in boats in chains and subject them to hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow? Did we genocide the shit out of them like we did the Native Americans (who was also call "Indians" because white people are basically awful).

Now, the ironic thing is that in my Resume business, I deal with a lot of people from the Gujarat region of India. What I found out was that Gujarati are essentially the Black People of India- they are discriminated against culturally and legally, but a lot of them excel when they get here.

Of course, any Indian who gets here has to have some wealth and affluence. It's not like the good old day when Grandpa LudwigB131 could get into a boat with a couple of steamer trunks and get into the country.

that depends on where your at,, in black communities most of the bosses are black,,

 

[progressive hunter]

put pictures with the apps and white names on black people and I bet the white names get picked more even when the pic shows a black man. In other words I bet it's not based on race.

You're babbling, buddy.

The point is, they've done the studies, where they've found that white names like "Greg" and "Emily" get 50% more call backs than black names like "Jamal" and "Lakeisha".

Now, it's a bit different now in that almost everyone has a linked in profile with their picture on it. But in 2005, they did this study and this is what they found.

everytime you speak you show what a racist you are,,

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Please remember what you have been taught, folks.

These are underprivileged kids who need to be placed first in line for all things.

These evil bastards, however are completely privileged. They are about the same age, but you can tell they are privileged just by looking at them, and we should be using the power of the state to try to prevent them from going to school or getting the jobs that the other kids deserve.

 

[Juicin]

...
Not really. We’re you even alive during any of that?

Sorry to intrude on your conversation with IM2 and NewsVine Mariyam, but you are missing the point as to why Affirmative Action is necessary.
People brought up in poverty are deprived. They live in bad neighborhoods to have to go to bad schools with bad teachers, parents too busy scrambling for rent to have time to help them, lack or travel, computers, educated relatives to teach them things, etc.
People brought up in wealth have lots of advantages, like their own libraries of boos, computers, magazine subscriptions, stimulating trips and vacations to other countries, museums, art galleries, 2 parents, etc.

So why are there these economic disparities?
It usually has nothing to do with intelligence or aptitude.
The fact is that slavery took the production of many and gave it all to a few.
This disparity is passed on from generation to generation, even after slavery ended.
Blacks had no way to regain the wealth taken from them, and with wealth it is easy to generate more wealth, even after slavery was over.

So Affirmative Action is the only way.
And Affirmative Action is not where you give unqualified people jobs just to make your racial quotas look good.
All Affirmative Action means is that you take the poverty of the person's up bringing into account when you try to evaluate their potential. You just don't rely on standardized testing because standardized testing does not work for someone with a deprived childhood. That is true for all races. Standardized testing is not really very valid.

So you’d be in favor of AA based upon social and economic factors rather than race? Guess what, so would I and so would most responsible people.

No only racists. Because wealthy people of color still face racism. AA is not just about standardized tests.

so? you think asians think that way?

fuck off

Whiney, effeminate, upper class minorities are exactly why we're in this fucking mess. Should have transitioned to poverty based AA in 1995. New generation of people. Vast majority of racist teachers were gone. It was time

At this point it's African immigrants who get all this shit it's not even native born blacks.

Why the fuck should an African immigrant get anything over an Asian immigrant? They're demographically almost exactly the fucking same

Asians are for Affirmative Action. Without AA, asians get excluded. Vast majority of racist teachers aren't gone, this nation is still higly racist. African get in on H1B so do Asians. Stop thinking you can talk for Asians. We are here today because whites have not quit being racists. Here we have a forum full of racists and you talk about some new generation. Psychosis.

California just voted down AA

Asians are by far the most shafted, it would be the Jews, and used to be. But they're now counted as white

So it's us at the top of hte list

Asians do not support affirmative action. If they did California would have it.

The only people in this country who truly support affirmitive actino are black, and possibly the native Americans but data on them is very weak.

 

[Juicin]

being white has nothing to do with it when youre related or banging the boss,,it happens no matter what color you are,,

Except white people represent most of the bosses, that's the problem.

Heck, I have even heard of half black/half Indian women rising all the way to the vice presidency by banging the boss.

Really? Having a consensual relationship 20 years ago got her the vice presidency?

I thought it was because she ran for office and distinguished herself in public service, but never mind. Racists are going to racist.

Standardized test scores define merit in universities in every functioning academic setting on the planet. And we have huge gaps

No, it just shows they are good at taking tests. I know people who got 1600 on their SAT's, and they are kind of morons.

The higher you go in society the more obvious it becomes.

Black Americans get no preferential treatment applying at McDonalds. Not true when you have a graduate degree. Considering hte gaps in admittance scores even the degrees are not worth the same.

Actually, what I see as we go up is a lot of people who were born on third base and thought they hit a triple. Trump and Bush are complete fucking morons but their wealth and privilege got them to the Presdiency, even after the people rejected them.

I see Indians all over the Republican party (i'm half indian). Other than black Americans we are per capita the most supportive of the democratic party, and generally more liberal than black america. That's definitely affirmative action at work. Aijit Pai? That prick, yup. He may be technically qualified but I know why they chose him over the others. There are so few Indians in the Republcian party when they get one it's easy to climb

Nicki Haley, Bobby Jindal, Pai

You mean the Bobby Jindal who thinks that exorcisms are a real thing?

Ah, you are falling into the fallacy of the "Good Minority". Did we bring Indians over here in boats in chains and subject them to hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow? Did we genocide the shit out of them like we did the Native Americans (who was also call "Indians" because white people are basically awful).

Now, the ironic thing is that in my Resume business, I deal with a lot of people from the Gujarat region of India. What I found out was that Gujarati are essentially the Black People of India- they are discriminated against culturally and legally, but a lot of them excel when they get here.

Of course, any Indian who gets here has to have some wealth and affluence. It's not like the good old day when Grandpa LudwigB131 could get into a boat with a couple of steamer trunks and get into the country.

Bro you get a 1600 on your SAT you have an extremely high IQ

You're delusional to believe that.

They all matter and again this is how every academic system on the planet works. Ours only denies it because we have a for profit education system unlike most of the rest of the planet.

Yes test scores are everything, idiot.

I may be a lot more useful than a lot of geniuses, that doesn't make me smarter than them. Don't get uppity.