Atomic bomb

[shoshi]

Imagine how would the American people would react if they lerned [sic] the war could havebeen [sic] ended fast but it was not because the bomb was not used.

Try to tell some people that it could have been ended much sooner without slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians and costing tens of thousands more American servicemen, and some people put their fingers in their ears and cry "lalalalalalalalaalalaaaaaa!" because simple minded people are loathe to give up a comfortable narrative once they've swallowed it.

You do know the firebombing of Tokyo killed many more than the atom bombs did. Japan still continued to fight.

And?

And if not for the bomb Japan would never surrendered. ....

You, of course, don't know that. That is just speculation. There were elements in the government looking for a way to surrender before Yalta. Did you read the article I posted? Simple minded people are loathe to give up a comfortable narrative once they've swallowed it.

Explain the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender.

I'm not going to teach you the entire history of WWII for free. Go get a library card.

You cannot explain it......

It has been explained over and over and over again on several very long threads here. You shouldn't even need it explained if you have a basic grasp of logic. Stop being lazy and use your head.

You have proven you have no knowledge. ......

You mentioned "the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender," right? Do I need to hold your hand through this?

You have no knowledge. ....

You mentioned "the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender," right? Yes or no?

You are unable to explain that yes or no?

Don't answer a question with a question. You mentioned "the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender," right? Yes or no? What are you so afraid of?

Why are you unable to explain it? Unless you have no knowledge.

 

[Unkotare]

Imagine how would the American people would react if they lerned [sic] the war could havebeen [sic] ended fast but it was not because the bomb was not used.

Try to tell some people that it could have been ended much sooner without slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians and costing tens of thousands more American servicemen, and some people put their fingers in their ears and cry "lalalalalalalalaalalaaaaaa!" because simple minded people are loathe to give up a comfortable narrative once they've swallowed it.

You do know the firebombing of Tokyo killed many more than the atom bombs did. Japan still continued to fight.

And?

And if not for the bomb Japan would never surrendered. ....

You, of course, don't know that. That is just speculation. There were elements in the government looking for a way to surrender before Yalta. Did you read the article I posted? Simple minded people are loathe to give up a comfortable narrative once they've swallowed it.

Explain the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender.

I'm not going to teach you the entire history of WWII for free. Go get a library card.

You cannot explain it......

It has been explained over and over and over again on several very long threads here. You shouldn't even need it explained if you have a basic grasp of logic. Stop being lazy and use your head.

You have proven you have no knowledge. ......

You mentioned "the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender," right? Do I need to hold your hand through this?

You have no knowledge. ....

You mentioned "the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender," right? Yes or no?

You are unable to explain that yes or no?

Don't answer a question with a question. You mentioned "the plan to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender," right? Yes or no? What are you so afraid of?

Why are you unable to explain it? Unless you have no knowledge.

Just to be clear: You are refusing to answer a direct question, right? You don't have to be so defensive.

 

[shoshi]

If you have no explanation that is ok. I am bored with you.

 

[forkup]

.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.

Japan would not agree to unconditional surrender.

The terms being floated were the exact ones that we eventually accepted after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians in atomic hellfire. There are several very long threads on this here. Go take a look.

Maybe but the terms you ended up accepting were unconditional surrender making keeping the emperor an indulgence given from the allies. I would suspect it was given as an insurance policy against further violence. If they would have taken the terms floated, firstly the allies would have had problems enforcing unity amongst themselves and 2 would have had less leverage with the hawks in Japan.

 

[HenryBHough]

I have to agree with those who say the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than they killed. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombings of hamburg and Dresden together. Many more than the atomic bomb. If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative? More fire bombings? Starve Japan with the navy blockade. Invasion of Japan would have been much more bloody than invasion of Germany was.
Also American soldiers and Navy were still fighting the Japanese in Philipines and other battles as well as fighting kamikazes. American lives were being lost and more would be lost if not for the atom bomb. If the bomb had not been used and later the people discovered the war could have been ended fast with it and it was not used would political careers not be ruined?

Truman understood that wars were for winning.

Which is why he could not be a Democrat if he were alive today.

 

[Unkotare]

.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.

Japan would not agree to unconditional surrender.

The terms being floated were the exact ones that we eventually accepted after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians in atomic hellfire. There are several very long threads on this here. Go take a look.

Maybe but the terms you ended up accepting were unconditional surrender making keeping the emperor an indulgence given from the allies. I would suspect it was given as an insurance policy against further violence. If they would have taken the terms floated, firstly the allies would have had problems enforcing unity amongst themselves and 2 would have had less leverage with the hawks in Japan.

The terms being floated were the exact ones that we eventually accepted.

 

[forkup]

.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.

Japan would not agree to unconditional surrender.

The terms being floated were the exact ones that we eventually accepted after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians in atomic hellfire. There are several very long threads on this here. Go take a look.

Maybe but the terms you ended up accepting were unconditional surrender making keeping the emperor an indulgence given from the allies. I would suspect it was given as an insurance policy against further violence. If they would have taken the terms floated, firstly the allies would have had problems enforcing unity amongst themselves and 2 would have had less leverage with the hawks in Japan.

The terms being floated were the exact ones that we eventually accepted.

Again, the principle of the matter was what ended up being important. You were allowed to keep the Emporer. This is true. Officially Japan accepted the unconditional surrender. Meaning that you were allowed to keep the Emperor on the suffrage of the allies giving them a tool to enforce compliance.

We have ordered our government to communicate to the governments of the United States, Great Britain, China and the Soviet Union that our empire accepts the provisions of their joint declaration (Potsdam)

I'm sure you are aware that surrender wasn't exactly received with joy or even compliance so I don't think having an actual stick behind the door to enforce it was a bad idea.

It is very easy to criticize decisions with the benefit of hindsight the problem is that hindsight is in itself limited. Accepting the conditions the Japanese set out when they offered it might have induced a Guerilla war by the Hawks who felt the allies to be weak. They might not even have been actual overtures but a play for time.. It might have ended the war without further bloodshed. I don't know. Neither do you.

 

[Unkotare]

...

Truman understood that wars were for winning.
.....

Truman was a puppet placed in the office because he could be counted on to carry out fdr's bloodthirsty final wish.

 

[westwall]

.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.

Japan would not agree to unconditional surrender.

The terms being floated were the exact ones that we eventually accepted after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians in atomic hellfire. There are several very long threads on this here. Go take a look.

No, they weren't.

 

[Unkotare]

...You were allowed to keep the Emporer [sic]. ...

I was? What the hell do you mean?

 

[forkup]

...You were allowed to keep the Emporer [sic]. ...

I was? What the hell do you mean?

Sorry, I thought you were Japanese? I wasn't meaning disrespect.

 

[Unkotare]

Article clipped from Chicago Tribune

Clipping found in Chicago Tribune published in Chicago, Illinois on 8/14/1965.

www.newspapers.com

 

[Unkotare]

...You were allowed to keep the Emporer [sic]. ...

I was? What the hell do you mean?

Sorry, I thought you were Japanese? ...

I am not, nor was I alive at the time.

 

[forkup]

...You were allowed to keep the Emporer [sic]. ...

I was? What the hell do you mean?

Sorry, I thought you were Japanese? ...

I am not, nor was I alive at the time.

You have my apology.

 

[themirrorthief]

I have to agree with those who say the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than they killed. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombings of hamburg and Dresden together. Many more than the atomic bomb. If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative? More fire bombings? Starve Japan with the navy blockade. Invasion of Japan would have been much more bloody than invasion of Germany was.
Also American soldiers and Navy were still fighting the Japanese in Philipines and other battles as well as fighting kamikazes. American lives were being lost and more would be lost if not for the atom bomb. If the bomb had not been used and later the people discovered the war could have been ended fast with it and it was not used would political careers not be ruined?

the japanese were completely beaten...why not just go home

 

[Unkotare]

...You were allowed to keep the Emporer [sic]. ...

I was? What the hell do you mean?

Sorry, I thought you were Japanese? ...

I am not, nor was I alive at the time.

You have my apology.

No problem.

 

[forkup]

I have to agree with those who say the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than they killed. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombings of hamburg and Dresden together. Many more than the atomic bomb. If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative? More fire bombings? Starve Japan with the navy blockade. Invasion of Japan would have been much more bloody than invasion of Germany was.
Also American soldiers and Navy were still fighting the Japanese in Philipines and other battles as well as fighting kamikazes. American lives were being lost and more would be lost if not for the atom bomb. If the bomb had not been used and later the people discovered the war could have been ended fast with it and it was not used would political careers not be ruined?

the japanese were completely beaten...why not just go home

For one thing, because they still had extensive holdings all over Asia. Holdings that would have to be cleared without a formal cessation of hostilities. Extending the need for humongous military expenses and loss of life for probably another year.

 

[themirrorthief]

I have to agree with those who say the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than they killed. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombings of hamburg and Dresden together. Many more than the atomic bomb. If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative? More fire bombings? Starve Japan with the navy blockade. Invasion of Japan would have been much more bloody than invasion of Germany was.
Also American soldiers and Navy were still fighting the Japanese in Philipines and other battles as well as fighting kamikazes. American lives were being lost and more would be lost if not for the atom bomb. If the bomb had not been used and later the people discovered the war could have been ended fast with it and it was not used would political careers not be ruined?

the japanese were completely beaten...why not just go home

For one thing, because they still had extensive holding all over Asia. Holdings that would have to be cleared without a formal cessation of hostilities. Extending the need for humongous military expenses and loss of life for probably another year.

the japanese knew they couldnt win the war...and they learned that was the truth...only idiots like tojo thought the war was a good idea....nuking civiians is just wrong...totally

 

[forkup]

I have to agree with those who say the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than they killed. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombings of hamburg and Dresden together. Many more than the atomic bomb. If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative? More fire bombings? Starve Japan with the navy blockade. Invasion of Japan would have been much more bloody than invasion of Germany was.
Also American soldiers and Navy were still fighting the Japanese in Philipines and other battles as well as fighting kamikazes. American lives were being lost and more would be lost if not for the atom bomb. If the bomb had not been used and later the people discovered the war could have been ended fast with it and it was not used would political careers not be ruined?

the japanese were completely beaten...why not just go home

For one thing, because they still had extensive holding all over Asia. Holdings that would have to be cleared without a formal cessation of hostilities. Extending the need for humongous military expenses and loss of life for probably another year.

the japanese knew they couldnt win the war...and they learned that was the truth...only idiots like tojo thought the war was a good idea....nuking civiians is just wrong...totally

Actually, a lot of people didn't know that. And for most who did the idea of death was preferable to surrender. There's a clear documented reason for so few Japanese POW's

 

[themirrorthief]

cooking alive babies and little children may be ok with some but I would pass...truman was the greastest asshole that ever lived and a damned good democrat