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Atomic bomb

shoshi

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I have to agree with those who say the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than they killed. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombings of hamburg and Dresden together. Many more than the atomic bomb. If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative? More fire bombings? Starve Japan with the navy blockade. Invasion of Japan would have been much more bloody than invasion of Germany was.
Also American soldiers and Navy were still fighting the Japanese in Philipines and other battles as well as fighting kamikazes. American lives were being lost and more would be lost if not for the atom bomb. If the bomb had not been used and later the people discovered the war could have been ended fast with it and it was not used would political careers not be ruined?
 
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shoshi

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.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.

Japan would not agree to unconditional surrender.
 

DGS49

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I call, "Bullshit." Overtures to surrender from Japan? Bullshit.

But if one could come up with a credible source, I'm willing to be convinced. Not holding my breath.
 

Concerned American

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I have to agree with those who say the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than they killed. The firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombings of hamburg and Dresden together. Many more than the atomic bomb. If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative? More fire bombings? Starve Japan with the navy blockade. Invasion of Japan would have been much more bloody than invasion of Germany was.
Also American soldiers and Navy were still fighting the Japanese in Philipines and other battles as well as fighting kamikazes. American lives were being lost and more would be lost if not for the atom bomb. If the bomb had not been used and later the people discovered the war could have been ended fast with it and it was not used would political careers not be ruined?
The Japanese Diet was in session with Hirohito drawing up their surrender when the bombs were dropped. The bombs were dropped to see what the effect would be on people. They were also trying to determine which style of bomb would be most effective. That is why the bomb casings were different. The war was over for all intents and purposes.
 

westwall

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.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.





So long as the militarists were in command the answer was no. Even after the first Nuke they had no inclination to quit. They were arming the civilian population with spears to fight the last person. They even launched a coup attempt to try and prevent Hirohito from surrendering.
 

JGalt

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.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.

Japan would not agree to unconditional surrender.

You're right, they would not have agreed to an unconditional surrender. There were no doubt some elements of the Japanese political and military establishment who saw that they were being beaten. But for the most part, to surrender would have brought shame and humiliation to the Japanese and their Emperor.

It was only after two weapons of war that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that they realized it was futile to keep fighting. Two weapons the likes the world had never seen before.

Hundreds of thousands of Japanese Type 99 and Type 38 Arisaka rifles were turned in by the Japanese at the end of the war. Our military worked out a deal with the Japanese government to allow them to grind off the Chrysanthemum stamped on the receivers, which was the official symbol of the Emperor. The Emperor's symbol on the rifles basically meant that he owned them.

We allowed them to do that in order to to prevent from humiliating the Emperor. Many of those rifles were either brought back by returning soldiers, or exported to this country as collectibles. The rifles with the symbol still intact on the receivers, usually bring a higher price.

I still find those rifles at garage sales. Many times they have had the stocks cut shorter or sporterized, but the original ones that haven't been modified are quite collectible. You used to be able to buy them back in the 60's for $10 but these days, an unmodified Type 38 or Type 66 Arisaka with the Chrysanthemum still on it is fetching $500-$800 at the gun shows. The paratrooper models are bringing even more.

Toward the end of the war, Japan was cutting corners on their weapons manufacturing. They were using cheaper steel and were riveting the safety knob to the back of the bolt.. Those late-issue rifles are commonly referred to as "last ditch" models, and even those have become collectible. The last ditch models gave the Arisaka a bad name, back in the 60's, because they were more crudely-made and were though of as being unsafe to fire.

But the early and mid war production models have one of the strongest actions of any bolt-action rifle. The Type 38 model in 6.5 Japanese is accurate out to 500 meters, and can hold a 2" group at 100 meters, as long as the bore isn't worn out.
 

The Irish Ram

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.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.
They were so opposed to surrendering, that it took 2 bombs to get them to make up their minds. That is amazing. All those lives they could have saved...
 
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shoshi

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The firebombing of Tokyo killed many more than Dresden and Hamburg combined. Many more than the atom bombs did.
 

harmonica

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.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.
hahhahahaha
we've been over this a million times
....they were NOT surrendering--even after the Abombs---the vote was tied...it took the bombs to sway the Emperor
 

Sunni Man

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The Japanese were gearing up for an Allied invasion by training every man, woman, and child, how to use everyday tools like garden hoes, kitchen knives, and even sharpened sticks to kill American soldiers.
U.S. military leaders predicted that a million solders would be either killed or wounded before the Japanese civilian population could be subdued and the government forced to surrender. ... :cool:
 

harmonica

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The firebombing of Tokyo killed many more than Dresden and Hamburg combined. Many more than the atom bombs did.
..many people do not know anything about WW2
 

Unkotare

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.... If the atom bomb had not been used what was the alternative?....

Maybe pursue some of the overtures to surrender that were being floated by Japan long before the bombings? It's possible the war could have been ended well before Okinawa.

Japan would not agree to unconditional surrender.

The terms being floated were the exact ones that we eventually accepted after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians in atomic hellfire. There are several very long threads on this here. Go take a look.
 

Unkotare

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The Japanese were gearing up for an Allied invasion by training every man, woman, and child, how to use everyday tools like garden hoes, kitchen knives, and even sharpened sticks to kill American soldiers.
.....

Do you really think children, women, and the elderly were going to charge at US Marines with wooden spoons? Don't be ridiculous. That was a propaganda program meant for domestic consumption to try and maintain the severely flagging public support for the war effort. 75 years later and some people are still swallowing propaganda that was never meant for them in the first place.
 

Unkotare

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I call, "Bullshit." Overtures to surrender from Japan? Bullshit.

But if one could come up with a credible source, I'm willing to be convinced. Not holding my breath.

This has been documented here over and over again. Go read one of the many long threads on the subject.
 

DGS49

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So your theory is that, the Japanese knew they were defeated and only wanted out with dignity, but they continued sending 13-year-old Kamikazi "pilots" at American vessels, continued fighting to the death on every front, and did not disengage in any battle or confrontation that anyone actually noticed.

And Presidents Roosevelt and Truman could have ended the war with minimal further bloodshed, but chose to drop two bombs, just for the hell of it.

Yeah, that's plausible. To anyone who graduated from American public schools in the past forty years.
 

Flash

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The Japs were defeated at Midway. After that it was only a question of how long and at what cost.

The Japs sealed their fate to be nuked at Okinawa. They decided their strategy would be to inflict so many casualties on the Americans that we would accept less than total surrender.

That might have worked had we not developed the atomic weapons.

The nuclear weapons gave us a way to defeat the sonofabitches without an unacceptable number of American casualties, like my father.

They are the responsible for their own fate. They could have surrendered and there never would have been nukes used.

You mess with the bull and you get the horns. Next time don't start a war you can't finish and you won't get nuked.
 

whitehall

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By the time we dropped the two Bombs, Japan was practically defenseless. It's navy was destroyed and it had no air cover. American planes were dropping huge payloads of bombs at will. Thanks to the media who just loved little Give 'em Hell Harry, little is said about the Japanese holdouts who were ready to surrender. Apparently Truman refused to negotiate surrender terms on any level except "unconditional" and the Japanese were concerned about their Emperor being executed and were trying to negotiate with Stalin of all people. Truman authorized the Bomb and the Emperor was spared anyway.
 

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