Atheists don't believe in God or gods but they have no alternative theories that make sense...

[Karl Rand]

I could prattle on about this forever and we’d probably never convince each other of much.
Plus I’m mindful a lot of what we are saying here is going to come across as voodoo to anyone attracted to a thread titled "Atheists don't believe in God or gods but they have no alternative theories that make sense...” not that forms of voodoo aren’t involved is such a discussion anyway what with all the weird totally unscientific drivel out their on the high-end audio market. So I’ll have my final say on audio. You say "Odd you think me a thermionic nut while buying high end pricey tube amps that go the full purple koolaid extent of believing the grain orientation of the xformer cores matters. I bet you have a ton of money invested in greatly overpriced interconnect and speaker cables as well. Me, I make most of my own. I'm sure your gear sounds really fantastic, but I eschew the term "hi-fi" as it usually implies buying "a sound" that is somehow imbued over everything one plays; my goal is to get as close as possible to the sound of the original live performance rather than the sound of Mark Levinson, which means that if the source is bad, so is the playback.” I certainly don’t think of you as a thermionic nut given my main system’s pre-amp and power amps are thermionic. I simply don’t barrack for either solid state or any other means of getting the sound of real instruments to happen at home. I’ve never pursued audio/hi-fi or whatever you want to call it to achieve ‘a sound’. My aim has always been to get as close as possible to the sound of acoustic instruments played in real space. I have no particular interest in trying to get digitally manipulated studio ‘magic’ to be anything in particular because I have no idea what any of it was supposed to sound like anyway My perspective however may be warped by having studied the pipe organ for 11 years in my youth and associating with choral and acoustic instrument students at the Conservatorium I’ve little time for silly money interconnects either having knitted most of my own from microphone cable and solid core silver coated wire mostly terminated with minimalist plugs containing as little metal as practical I have however put a huge amount of effort into the problems of room acoustics. In my previous house the Raidho Acoustics TD-4.8s I still run sounded superb. In my present situation the bottom end was very nasty. I learnt eventually, after a lot of fiddling around, if they were in a position where soundstage held together ( don’t know about you but to me that’s important) the bass was disgusting. Move them anywhere the bottom end didn’t boom and the stereo perspective was a real mess. In the end I found the only solution was to run two subs in optimum locations and cut off the TD-4-8s below 70 hz running these where the soundstage didn’t disintigrate.

I’m intrigued you have somehow managed to run a cartridge with no magnets. I can’t imagine how that’s possible - - ceramics? Strain gauge? Anyhow, enough of this,

 

[Karl Rand]

The universe has no choice but to be a closed system. And no, we do not even "know" it had a true beginning. Food for thought.

I’m intrigued by your use of ‘choice’ here and have no idea what you’re implying. Are you saying the universe cannot be conscious and therefore cannot make choices? The idea of any discussion that suggests the universe may or may not have ‘free will’ scares the living daylights out of me.

 

[Karl Rand]

And no, none of my gear has me seeing God.

Sorry to hear that, as that is what makes it all worthwhile to me. But then, its a lot different listening to gear when its something you both designed and made yourself rather than simply bought off a retail store shelf.

Now 73 my involvement in hi-fi began at age 16 when I inherited my uncle’s AR turntable, Shure V15 cartridge, Quad 22 preamp, Quad 202 valve power amp and a pair of massive Tannoy ‘Gold’ 15 inch corner horns. Simply buying off a retail shelf wasn’t part of it.
Later I acquired a partner who worked as audio technician and amp designer for a large high end audio business both retailing and importing into Australia. A subsequent long term relationship with an audio/video reviewer had our home accomodate an endless stream of gear, much of which I hated, some I tolerated and some that made a permanent positive impression on me such as the original Rogers LS 3.5A speakers powered by the original Audio Research D 70 Mark 11 power amp.
What I’m trying to say here is my experience in this area wasn’t anything like that of someone who wandered into a retail establishment a just plonked their money down.
That’s about all I want to say about audio here given we’ve probably bored too many people with a subject they must find weird beyond belief.
As to not experiencing God when listening to music such as a Bach organ work performed on the new Rieger Organ at Scots Church, Melbourne or Elizabeth Schwarzkopf performing Richard Strauss Last Four Songs on my collection of off the shelf junk beleive me they transport me to realms beyond my ability to describe. Not being a believer in any particular version of an Almighty Creator of the Universe doesn’t as far as I’m concerned lessen the significance or power of the experience.
I hope that makes some sense.

 

[ding]

The current scientific consensus of most cosmologists is that the ultimate fate of the universe depends on its overall shape, how much dark energy it contains, and on the equation of state which determines how the dark energy density responds to the expansion of the universe. So, no. It does not require an open system. But regardless of that, we know it had a beginning. So it has to be an isolated system.

Ding, I usually enjoy a lot of your posts so I will leave you with this: While Dark Matter is a given, "dark energy" is nothing but a theory to fill a gap in something we absolutely do not understand. The shape of the universe is a given, but whether or not the universe is accelerating (for now, for real, or only in our observations or not) does NOT decide whether the universe is an "open" or "closed" system. The universe has no choice but to be a closed system. And no, we do not even "know" it had a true beginning. Food for thought.

Thank you for the kind words. I have enjoyed your posts as well.

I don't disagree about your comments on dark energy/matter. It's a fudge factor. I am not convinced they can know how fast the universe is accelerating. However, I disagree that we cannot know if space and time had a beginning. The SLoT requires that is did. Cyclical models are dead.

Did you ever watch this video? It's fairly long (40 min) but informative.

 

[pinqy]

...as to how the universe came to exist or how humans became aware of our own existence.

To be honest, i’m Not familiar with your theory and explanation.
How are you claiming God created the universe? What were the methods employed, how do they work? And how can we objectively test those claims?

 

[toobfreak]

I certainly don’t think of you as a thermionic nut given my main system’s pre-amp and power amps are thermionic.

Interesting as when you started all this stereo stuff not realizing I'm actually a sound engineer of sorts and an audio designer, it seemed like you were putting down the tube. God, much like the universe is analog as is music, and the universe IS music, and the tube is a valve inherently disposed to a contiguous, ever-changing analog waveform, ie, inherently musical, much like the universe, whereas the transistor by its nature wants to be a switch, binary, either all on or all off. It is only through many years of learning that we've forced it to behave well otherwise.

I have however put a huge amount of effort into the problems of room acoustics.

Well, I'm sure you understand that not only are the speaker and power amp two ends of the same thing, highly interdependent and reactionary to each other (and perhaps your cables or amps are responsible for your mid-bass problems), each loading the other, but likewise is true with the room. And yes, imaging is everything.

In my previous house the Raidho Acoustics TD-4.8s I still run sounded superb.

I should hope so. FWIW, me and a friend have actually spent our lives proving that truly good sound doesn't require mortgaging the house, it simply requires intelligent design and avoidance of the designed obsolescence upon which hi-fi is based. You've spent a very great deal on gear that not only sounds good but LOOKS like a million bucks, and that is where you and I part company. You may not want to hear this, but the exorbitant hi end industry makes fantastic profits selling gear to the affluent by not only pushing the voodoo purple koolaid of crazy expensive cables, vibration control, magnetic field control and green CD pens, but sells it with the idea that good sound must come with lavish construction and luxuriant looks along with very high-tech space age appeal. I've proven that's NOT the case. Just take a look at the gear up on stage making the original sound (and in the recording room) we are trying to reproduce to see the evidence of this. Beyond a certain point of getting the fundamentals right, most of the crazy details many companies expound are a matter of greatly diminished returns. As a designer and builder (I have my own electronic bench and machine shop), I can tell you that save for the fancy exteriors, audibly and electrically, the most common expensive hi end power amps out there have maybe $2,000 - $3,000 in real out of pocket expense to the manufacturers. The rest is total profit to make up for a very small market (made small by the exorbitant retail prices).

FWIW, all of this is but a microcosm of the universe around us. Bottom line as in audio, there are schools of thought about God and the universe equally hard to prove to the other side because much of them as in cosmological approach depends on personal tastes, biases and subjective appeal.

 

[toobfreak]

The universe has no choice but to be a closed system. And no, we do not even "know" it had a true beginning. Food for thought.

I’m intrigued by your use of ‘choice’ here and have no idea what you’re implying. Are you saying the universe cannot be conscious and therefore cannot make choices? The idea of any discussion that suggests the universe may or may not have ‘free will’ scares the living daylights out of me.

Of course the universe is conscious, it is consciousness itself from which all finite consciousness comes, but the universe is not the source of consciousness nor does it make choices per se because the universe like us is not the original cause of itself---- the universe is nothing but choice already made set into motion.

 

[toobfreak]

Now 73 my involvement in hi-fi began at age 16 when I inherited my uncle’s AR turntable, Shure V15 cartridge, Quad 22 preamp, Quad 202 valve power amp and a pair of massive Tannoy ‘Gold’ 15 inch corner horns. What I’m trying to say here is my experience in this area wasn’t anything like that of someone who wandered into a retail establishment a just plonked their money down.

Very cool. You've been a very lucky man. The Quad amps (you seem to have a predisposition towards liking a lot of British gear) were among some of the very best of their day, too bad you never got the chance to pair them up with the original Quad electrostatic speakers.

The Quads were pure magic, especially in the midrange, even more so if you took the plastic skin off of them, but then they self-destructed in a short order of time as they statically attracted dirt into them until they finally shorted out.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Neither positive nor negative energy can be created.

Wrong. It appears both can be created in equal parts, will no violation of any conservation principle. You keep repeating yourself, and you refuse to lift a finger to educate yourself on any of this. Your archaic claims were swept aside long ago.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But it DOES have everything to do with God. Believe me, I see him every time I turn on my system (turning it on involves 17

No,that means your mindset is about god. The actual events themselves are not. That's why you consult physics and mathematics to engineer these systems, instead of seeking truth in wafers and wine.

And , as an aside: the tube guitar amps I use are greatly enhanced with digital technology.

 

[ding]

But it DOES have everything to do with God. Believe me, I see him every time I turn on my system (turning it on involves 17

No,that means your mindset is about god. The actual events themselves are not. That's why you consult physics and mathematics to engineer these systems, instead of seeking truth in wafers and wine.

And , as an aside: the tube guitar amps I use are greatly enhanced with digital technology.

There’s a whole lot of spirit in those wafers and wine if you believe there to be.

 

[toobfreak]

No,that means your mindset is about god. The actual events themselves are not.

Now shit-for-brains thinks he knows what and how and why I do things in my home behind closed doors.

And , as an aside: the tube guitar amps I use are greatly enhanced with digital technology.

Sure they are.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Now shit-for-brains thinks he knows what and how and why I do things in my home behind closed doors.

Because what i said is accurate, no matter who you are. No, you didn't divine your engineering successes from prayin to baby Jesus. That's a fact, no matter how grumpy you are.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Sure they are.

Absolutely! I love the new digital technology tube amps. Being able to recall all the settings at the push of a button is very useful for a live player like myself.

 

[toobfreak]

Sure they are.

Absolutely! I love the new digital technology tube amps. Being able to recall all the settings at the push of a button is very useful for a live player like myself.

Idiot. None of that crap is actually IN the signal path anymore than the digital readout of your car radio for picking stations affects how it sounds either.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Sure they are.

Absolutely! I love the new digital technology tube amps. Being able to recall all the settings at the push of a button is very useful for a live player like myself.

Idiot. None of that crap is actually IN the signal path anymore than the digital readout of your car radio for picking stations affects how it sounds either.

I didn't claim it was. Good grief you little crybaby, wipe the foam from your mouth. I just like the marriage of tech and wish I had it at my disposal 20 years ago.

 

[toobfreak]

Sure they are.

Absolutely! I love the new digital technology tube amps. Being able to recall all the settings at the push of a button is very useful for a live player like myself.

Idiot. None of that crap is actually IN the signal path anymore than the digital readout of your car radio for picking stations affects how it sounds either.

I didn't claim it was. Good grief you little crybaby, wipe the foam from your mouth. I just like the marriage of tech and wish I had it at my disposal 20 years ago.

So you can't turn a simple potentiometer and remember it was set to 5.5. Good musicians go by the SOUND, Judy, not by some number on a box.

 

[Taz]

The universe has no choice but to be a closed system. And no, we do not even "know" it had a true beginning. Food for thought.

I’m intrigued by your use of ‘choice’ here and have no idea what you’re implying. Are you saying the universe cannot be conscious and therefore cannot make choices? The idea of any discussion that suggests the universe may or may not have ‘free will’ scares the living daylights out of me.

Of course the universe is conscious, it is consciousness itself from which all finite consciousness comes, but the universe is not the source of consciousness nor does it make choices per se because the universe like us is not the original cause of itself---- the universe is nothing but choice already made set into motion.

How can you prove that the universe is conscious?

 

[toobfreak]

The universe has no choice but to be a closed system. And no, we do not even "know" it had a true beginning. Food for thought.

I’m intrigued by your use of ‘choice’ here and have no idea what you’re implying. Are you saying the universe cannot be conscious and therefore cannot make choices? The idea of any discussion that suggests the universe may or may not have ‘free will’ scares the living daylights out of me.

Of course the universe is conscious, it is consciousness itself from which all finite consciousness comes, but the universe is not the source of consciousness nor does it make choices per se because the universe like us is not the original cause of itself---- the universe is nothing but choice already made set into motion.

How can you prove that the universe is conscious?

What is this always with people asking others for proof? I'm just telling you how it really is. Isn't that enough? What do you want me to do, stand on my head spitting nickels while I do so? Now it's up to you to figure it out or go the chickenshit route and simply dismiss what I say as rubbish so you're not stuck with a puzzle. But I'll tell you this: nothing exists on the physical plane in finite quantity that wasn't around first on the astral plane in infinite quantity! Put another way, finite consciousness (as do all qualities) comes from infinite consciousness, not from dust and dirt, just as temporal, finite love comes from the reservoir of infinite love.

Look at it THIS way: you can have a second of time without having a year, but you can't have a year without having seconds. All qualities you see in finite quantity here in the temporal universe come from somewhere else where they exist in unlimited quantity. Whatever love we may have for each other (or God), God has Love in unbounded quantities times infinity times infinity.

The universe is full of consciousness, we have even found it in the rocks miles below the surface of the Earth. The Indians saw it in the sky, wind and mountains. If you could ask a bear or a tiger, they would tell you it is everywhere. WE are surrounded by it. Yet it pales in comparison to the infinite mind of God.

In case you think I just make this stuff up, it has been known, taught and recorded for thousands of years dating back to the beginnings of civilization. Only now in our age of "enlightenment" after all these years does man now ask for "proof."

Not that the proof isn't there. To find the proof all you need to do is find the consciousness. When you learn to see it, you'll have proof more real than a brick wall. That's not being a cop out, just that you cannot see the proof without the other. The proof IS the way.

 

[Taz]

The universe has no choice but to be a closed system. And no, we do not even "know" it had a true beginning. Food for thought.

I’m intrigued by your use of ‘choice’ here and have no idea what you’re implying. Are you saying the universe cannot be conscious and therefore cannot make choices? The idea of any discussion that suggests the universe may or may not have ‘free will’ scares the living daylights out of me.

Of course the universe is conscious, it is consciousness itself from which all finite consciousness comes, but the universe is not the source of consciousness nor does it make choices per se because the universe like us is not the original cause of itself---- the universe is nothing but choice already made set into motion.

How can you prove that the universe is conscious?

What is this always with people asking others for proof? I'm just telling you how it really is. Isn't that enough? What do you want me to do, stand on my head spitting nickels while I do so? Now it's up to you to figure it out or go the chickenshit route and simply dismiss what I say as rubbish so you're not stuck with a puzzle. But I'll tell you this: nothing exists on the physical plane in finite quantity that wasn't around first on the astral plane in infinite quantity! Put another way, finite consciousness (as do all qualities) comes from infinite consciousness, not from dust and dirt, just as temporal, finite loves comes from the reservoir of infinite love.

Look at it THIS way: you can have a second of time without having a year, but you can't have a year without having seconds. All qualities you see in finite quality here in the temporal universe come from somewhere else where they exist in unlimited quality. Whatever love we may have for each other (or God), God has Love in unbounded quantities times infinity times infinity.

The universe is full of consciousness, we have even found it in the rocks miles below the surface of the Earth. The Indians saw it in the sky, wind and mountains. If you could ask a bear or a tiger, they would tell you it is everywhere. WE are surrounded by it. Yet it pales in comparison to the infinite mind of God.

In case you think I just make this stuff up, it has been known, taught and recorded for thousands of years dating back to the beginnings of civilization. Only now in our age of "enlightenment" after all these years does man now ask for "proof."

What color is the sky in your fantasy world?