Atheism's Futility

[edthecynic]

And yet it is YOU who has willingly submitted to animal training!

As have we all, although as a child it was not so willingly.

Speak for yourself!

So, you lacked parental guidance as a child?

You just said as a child it was not willingly

I did. It is the job of a parent to set and enforce the limits. It is the job of a child to test those limits.

I tested often. It's how you learn. It was in a time of corporal punishment as well. Threats and incentives.

Apparently you learned nothing as you are now a willing trained poodle.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

As have we all, although as a child it was not so willingly.

Speak for yourself!

So, you lacked parental guidance as a child?

You just said as a child it was not willingly

I did. It is the job of a parent to set and enforce the limits. It is the job of a child to test those limits.

I tested often. It's how you learn. It was in a time of corporal punishment as well. Threats and incentives.

Apparently you learned nothing as you are now a willing trained poodle.

Feel free to give details.

 

[ding]

How do you know what is right if there isn’t a moral absolute truth which serves as a standard?

Golden Rule
Treat others as you would like to be treated

Not because you are afraid to go to hell or because you expect some reward

That’s a good answer. Do you do it?

Yup

I don't believe you.

Why?
I have been married for 38 years, respected in my community, never gotten in trouble in my life

Wasn’t god

Because I have observed your behaviors over a three year period.

 

[ding]

Wrong, there is truth and perception of truth.

Perception is reality



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

100% false.

There is only one reality. There are many perceptions of reality but regardless of what you believe reality is, reality will be what it is.

No what is truth to one is fantasy to another

If there was an absolute truth a d it can never be perceived it is no better than imagination

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Again... you are confusing perceptions of truth with reality. They are two different things.

You can perceive that you are a nice guy. That's your truth. That's your reality. But if all you ever do is mean stuff, then your perception of truth is at odds with reality.

I'm not confusing anything

Reality is not the same for all people

Morals are not the same for all people

You think your religious views are the absolute depiction of reality and that is nothing but your own perception of the world or the universe as you know it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

 

[Blues Man]

Perception is reality



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

100% false.

There is only one reality. There are many perceptions of reality but regardless of what you believe reality is, reality will be what it is.

No what is truth to one is fantasy to another

If there was an absolute truth a d it can never be perceived it is no better than imagination

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Again... you are confusing perceptions of truth with reality. They are two different things.

You can perceive that you are a nice guy. That's your truth. That's your reality. But if all you ever do is mean stuff, then your perception of truth is at odds with reality.

I'm not confusing anything

Reality is not the same for all people

Morals are not the same for all people

You think your religious views are the absolute depiction of reality and that is nothing but your own perception of the world or the universe as you know it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

And I believe that perception defines one's reality

 

[ding]

100% false.

There is only one reality. There are many perceptions of reality but regardless of what you believe reality is, reality will be what it is.

No what is truth to one is fantasy to another

If there was an absolute truth a d it can never be perceived it is no better than imagination

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Again... you are confusing perceptions of truth with reality. They are two different things.

You can perceive that you are a nice guy. That's your truth. That's your reality. But if all you ever do is mean stuff, then your perception of truth is at odds with reality.

I'm not confusing anything

Reality is not the same for all people

Morals are not the same for all people

You think your religious views are the absolute depiction of reality and that is nothing but your own perception of the world or the universe as you know it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

Exactly which is why reality is never the same for any 2 people and if reality can never be the same for any 2 people then there is no absolute.

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

 

[Blues Man]

No what is truth to one is fantasy to another

If there was an absolute truth a d it can never be perceived it is no better than imagination

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Again... you are confusing perceptions of truth with reality. They are two different things.

You can perceive that you are a nice guy. That's your truth. That's your reality. But if all you ever do is mean stuff, then your perception of truth is at odds with reality.

I'm not confusing anything

Reality is not the same for all people

Morals are not the same for all people

You think your religious views are the absolute depiction of reality and that is nothing but your own perception of the world or the universe as you know it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

Exactly which is why reality is never the same for any 2 people and if reality can never be the same for any 2 people then there is no absolute.

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

 

[ding]

Again... you are confusing perceptions of truth with reality. They are two different things.

You can perceive that you are a nice guy. That's your truth. That's your reality. But if all you ever do is mean stuff, then your perception of truth is at odds with reality.

I'm not confusing anything

Reality is not the same for all people

Morals are not the same for all people

You think your religious views are the absolute depiction of reality and that is nothing but your own perception of the world or the universe as you know it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

Exactly which is why reality is never the same for any 2 people and if reality can never be the same for any 2 people then there is no absolute.

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

 

[dblack]

If there is no God, and if there is no life after death - including a reward for virtue and punishment for evil, then what is the meaning of life? Why be "good"? Why not just exploit everything and everyone to our own personal advantage.

We're good precisely because there is no after life. This is all we get. So we make the best of it. Good, for the atheist, isn't about pleasing a deity in hopes of scoring benes in the afterlife. It's about making this world better now.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm not confusing anything

Reality is not the same for all people

Morals are not the same for all people

You think your religious views are the absolute depiction of reality and that is nothing but your own perception of the world or the universe as you know it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

Exactly which is why reality is never the same for any 2 people and if reality can never be the same for any 2 people then there is no absolute.

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

God wanted it that way

 

[Blues Man]

I'm not confusing anything

Reality is not the same for all people

Morals are not the same for all people

You think your religious views are the absolute depiction of reality and that is nothing but your own perception of the world or the universe as you know it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

Exactly which is why reality is never the same for any 2 people and if reality can never be the same for any 2 people then there is no absolute.

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

Actually it's 2 hydrogen atoms and 1oxygen atom.

And we can see atoms in some electron microscopes.

 

[ding]

If there is no God, and if there is no life after death - including a reward for virtue and punishment for evil, then what is the meaning of life? Why be "good"? Why not just exploit everything and everyone to our own personal advantage.

We're good precisely because there is no after life. This is all we get. So we make the best of it. Good, for the atheist, isn't about pleasing a deity in hopes of scoring benes in the afterlife. It's about making this world better now.

Why is it about making this world better now?

What’s the point of that?

 

[ding]

Perception of reality is not the same for all people. There really is a single reality that is independent of our perception.

I already explained why people don’t have the same morals. Subjectivity.

I don’t believe my religious views are the absolute depiction of reality. I believe reality exists independent of our perceptions.

Exactly which is why reality is never the same for any 2 people and if reality can never be the same for any 2 people then there is no absolute.

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

Actually it's 2 hydrogen atoms and 1oxygen atom.

And we can see atoms in some electron microscopes.

Right. My bad.

But to my point is that subjective or objective?

Because before that truth was known people had a different perception of that truth, right?

 

[james bond]

Atheists are good because it is the right thing to do. We don’t need any rewards or punishments

Says the guy who lies with "Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster" right under his misleading USMB handle.

 

[james bond]

As others have said before me, the Believer goes through life hoping he is right, while the intelligent Atheist hopes he is wrong.

You are wrong about "the Believer goes through life hoping he is right." You should know as a believer that you are right since God has revealed himself to you.

 

[Blues Man]

Exactly which is why reality is never the same for any 2 people and if reality can never be the same for any 2 people then there is no absolute.

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

Actually it's 2 hydrogen atoms and 1oxygen atom.

And we can see atoms in some electron microscopes.

Right. My bad.

But to my point is that subjective or objective?

Because before that truth was known people had a different perception of that truth, right?

I don't see the relevance of the structure of a water molecule to the discussion. People knew that water existed. the knowledge of the structure of a water molecule did not change that.

 

[ding]

Their perception is not the same. But it is what it is regardless of how you perceive it.

For all things there is a final state of fact that once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way regardless of people’s perceptions.

Truth and reality are discovered. Error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually.

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

Actually it's 2 hydrogen atoms and 1oxygen atom.

And we can see atoms in some electron microscopes.

Right. My bad.

But to my point is that subjective or objective?

Because before that truth was known people had a different perception of that truth, right?

I don't see the relevance of the structure of a water molecule to the discussion. People knew that water existed. the knowledge of the structure of a water molecule did not change that.

Because it establishes that there is a final state of fact which is independent of our perceptions.

 

[Blues Man]

If something can never be perceived it can never be known.

Truth is subjective

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

Actually it's 2 hydrogen atoms and 1oxygen atom.

And we can see atoms in some electron microscopes.

Right. My bad.

But to my point is that subjective or objective?

Because before that truth was known people had a different perception of that truth, right?

I don't see the relevance of the structure of a water molecule to the discussion. People knew that water existed. the knowledge of the structure of a water molecule did not change that.

Because it establishes that there is a final state of fact which is independent of our perceptions.

But is it really?

We have never seen the subatomic particles that we think make up matter. In fact we do not have any clue about 95% of the matter and energy we think makes up the universe. I think we will never understand it all just as a dog will never understand basic algebra.

We have theories and even those are subject to an accepted level of uncertainty.

But this does not equate with moral standards whatsoever as human behavior and thought are not the same as the physical world of matter and energy

 

[G.T.]

If there is no God, and if there is no life after death - including a reward for virtue and punishment for evil, then what is the meaning of life? Why be "good"? Why not just exploit everything and everyone to our own personal advantage.

isn't about pleasing a deity in hopes of scoring benes in the afterlife. It's about making this world better now.

100%

 

[ding]

Is it subjective that water is composed of 1 hydrogen molecule and two water molecules?

Actually it's 2 hydrogen atoms and 1oxygen atom.

And we can see atoms in some electron microscopes.

Right. My bad.

But to my point is that subjective or objective?

Because before that truth was known people had a different perception of that truth, right?

I don't see the relevance of the structure of a water molecule to the discussion. People knew that water existed. the knowledge of the structure of a water molecule did not change that.

Because it establishes that there is a final state of fact which is independent of our perceptions.

But is it really?

We have never seen the subatomic particles that we think make up matter. In fact we do not have any clue about 95% of the matter and energy we think makes up the universe. I think we will never understand it all just as a dog will never understand basic algebra.

We have theories and even those are subject to an accepted level of uncertainty.

But this does not equate with moral standards whatsoever as human behavior and thought are not the same as the physical world of matter and energy

Yes, it is really.

Same difference for moral standards.

If you don’t believe me start behaving immorally and see what happens. You can literally test it for yourself.