Zone1 Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust

[ding]

I know you're Ok with being a hypocrite.

You yourself told me your pleasure is more important to you that doing what you know is the right thing.

I'm sure you believe I am and I'm sure you believe I did.

 

[Blues Man]

I'm sure believe I am and I'm sure you believe I did.

Oh you did. I remember it well.

 

[ding]

Oh you did. I remember it well.

I'm sure you think you do.

 

[buttercup]

Speak for yourself

So you've never done anything wrong in your entire life? Suuuure, and I'm the tooth fairy.

You just don't like the word "sin" and that's understandable. We don't have to use that word.

 

[Dadoalex]

Who defines "goodness"? You? Society? A majority vote?

What's "good" to one person is not always good to another.

I don't think you've grasped yet that you can't even use the word "goodness" if you believe morality is subjective. Because if that's your view, it's ultimately meaningless.

I define "good" for me.
I do not define "good" for you.
If you think raping a 13 year old girl is "good" that's on you.
If you think murdering someone's family on a bet is good, that also is on you.

That you excuse such behavior on the basis of it being done by your "god" is also on you and means you will accept any behavior as good as long as you can justify it through your god.

My life doesn't work that way.
Rape is rape whether the rapist is a preacher at a Baptist church or your god.

I don't need god to be moral.
Ifyou think you need god to be moral it is YOUR morals that are in question, not mine.

 

[ding]

I define "good" for me.
I do not define "good" for you.
If you think raping a 13 year old girl is "good" that's on you.
If you think murdering someone's family on a bet is good, that also is on you.

That you excuse such behavior on the basis of it being done by your "god" is also on you and means you will accept any behavior as good as long as you can justify it through your god.

My life doesn't work that way.
Rape is rape whether the rapist is a preacher at a Baptist church or your god.

I don't need god to be moral.
Ifyou think you need god to be moral it is YOUR morals that are in question, not mine.

Do you believe that standards exist for logical reasons?

 

[Cougarbear]

Who made god?

Nothing to do with your asinine comment about the human ability to have children.

 

[Blues Man]

So you've never done anything wrong in your entire life? Suuuure, and I'm the tooth fairy.

You just don't like the word "sin" and that's understandable. We don't have to use that word.

So every "wrong" deed is a sin?

Sin is the transgression of religious law. I am not bound by any religious laws since I subscribe to no religion

Definition of SIN

an offense against religious or moral law; an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible; an often serious shortcoming : fault… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Blues Man]

So you've never done anything wrong in your entire life? Suuuure, and I'm the tooth fairy.

You just don't like the word "sin" and that's understandable. We don't have to use that word.

I've said when I was young and living on the streets that I broke laws. Is that a "sin" ?
I would steal from a store because I couldn't afford to buy food. I sold pot for money to buy clothes so I wouldn't freeze to death in the winter.

I refused to go to shelters or soup kitchens or any other church run charities because in the former predators were rampant and in the latter I would have been turned into Social Services and returned to an abusive foster home.

So yeah I did illegal shit but as soon as I had a job and a regular income I stopped doing illegal shit except for smoking weed.

 

[Dadoalex]

Nothing to do with your asinine comment about the human ability to have children.

God organized the entire universe is the author of all science could have the Holy Ghost perform in vitro fertilization. So ridiculously simple.

You said it buttwipe.

Who made God?
Where does God get his morals?
Reasonable questions since you set the stage.

 

[Cougarbear]

You said it buttwipe.

Who made God?
Where does God get his morals?
Reasonable questions since you set the stage.

You said God had sex with Mary which in those days was the only way to have a baby. Don’t try to squirm out of this. You are wrong and so are the atheist dushbags.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

America Founded as a Christian Nation 200123
ding Jan’20 Safaac: Not to mention it is indisputable the influence Christianity played in the success of the Republic. dvng 200123 Safaac00440

ding Jan’20 Safaac inserted link to Tocqueville: •••• One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

The negative influence of organized Christianity for 1700 years in Europe led the founding generation of the United States of America to fight a revolution in order to establish a new idea - Separation of Church and State.

Alexis de Tocqueville was a witness to the results of the actual true separation of church and state in progress. He grew up in the French environment of state run Catholic religion, where the true spirit of religion was virtually dead.

Religious freedom is what contributed to the success of the republic for the first time in 1500 years and an atheist could be an atheist, and an agnostic could be an agnostic and a Jew and a Hindu and a Muslim could contribute to the success of the republic through the religious freedom for which it was intended to stand.

But Saint Ding in his white bigoted Christian bias, wants to attribute the lion share the success to the religion that failed in England and in Europe until the enlightenment finally began to emerge the Christian Church fron its darkness and oppression,

Typical Saint Ding as usual. He doesn’t know what to say when called out on it.

to Safaac00440

 

[Blues Man]

America Founded as a Christian Nation 200123
ding Jan’20 Safaac: Not to mention it is indisputable the influence Christianity played in the success of the Republic. dvng 200123 Safaac00440

ding Jan’20 Safaac inserted link to Tocqueville: •••• One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

The negative influence of organized Christianity for 1700 years in Europe led the founding generation of the United States of America to fight a revolution in order to establish a new idea - Separation of Church and State.

Alexis de Tocqueville was a witness to the results of the actual true separation of church and state in progress. I he grew up in the French environment of state, wrong Catholic religion, where the true spirit of religion was virtually dead.

Religious freedom is what contributed to the success of the republic for the first time in 1500 years and atheist could be an atheist, and an agnostic could be an agnostic and a Jew and a Hindu and a Muslim could contribute to the success of the republic in the religious freedom for which it stands.

But Saint Ding in his white bigoted Christian bias, wants to attribute the lion share the success to the religion that failed in England and in Europe until the enlightenment finally began to emerge the Christian Church fron its darkness and oppression,

Typical Saint Ding as usual. He doesn’t know what to say when called out on it.

to Safaac00440

That's a bullshit argument.

Religion was the major power broker in politics, education and government for centuries of course they had influence and pity the fool who ever spoke out against the power of the church

 

[NotfooledbyW]

That's a bullshit argument.

What is a bullshit argument?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Religion was the major power broker in politics, education and government for centuries of course they had influence and pity the fool who ever spoke out against the power of the church

State religion was not the major power broker.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

State religion was not the major power broker.

The church going Christians could not defeat Jefferson twice for President, whom they called an atheist who wanted to take away their Bibles.

That gives credence to many studies that the majority of post-revolution Americans were not all that into being saved by Jesus Christ’s blood.

Religion was the major power broker in politics, education and government for centuries

Not while Madison Jefferson and Adams were still alive

Cane Ridge Kentucky Revival

Revival at Cane Ridge | Christian History Magazine

Revival at Cane Ridge
FRIDAY, AUGUST 6, 1801—wagons and carriages bounced along narrow Kentucky roads, kicking up dust and excitement as hundreds of men, women, and children pressed toward Cane Ridge, a church about 20 miles east of Lexington. They hungered to partake in what everyone felt was sure to be an extraordinary “Communion.”

By Saturday, things were extraordinary, and the news electrified this most populous region of the state; people poured in by the thousands. One traveler wrote a Baltimore friend that he was on his way to the “greatest meeting of its kind ever known” and that “religion has got to such a height here that people attend from a great distance; on this occasion I doubt not but there will be 10,000 people.”

He underestimated, but his miscalculation is understandable. Communions (annual three-to-five-day meetings climaxed with the Lord’s Supper) gathered people in the dozens, maybe the hundreds. At this Cane Ridge Communion, though, sometimes 20,000 people swirled about the grounds—watching, praying, preaching, weeping, groaning, falling. Though some stood at the edges and mocked, most left marveling at the wondrous hand of God.

The Cane Ridge Communion quickly became one of the best-reported events in American history, and according to Vanderbilt historian Paul Conkin, “arguably ... the most important religious gathering in all of American history.” It ignited the explosion of evangelical religion, which soon reached into nearly every corner of American life. For decades the prayer of camp meetings and revivals across the land was “Lord, make it like Cane Ridge.”

What was it about Cane Ridge that gripped the imagination? Exactly what happened there in the first summer of the new century?

Egyptian Darkness

Five years earlier, few would have predicted the Cane Ridge revival. Since the American Revolution, Christianity had been on the decline, especially on the frontier. Sporadic, scattered revivals—in Virginia in 1787,88, for example—dotted the landscape, but they were short-lived. Religious indifference seemed to be spreading.

On a trip to Tennessee in 1794, Methodist bishop Francis Asbury wrote anxiously about frontier settlers, “When I reflect that not one in a hundred came here to get religion, but rather to get plenty of good land, I think it will be well if some or many do not eventually lose their souls.”

Andrew Fulton, a Presbyterian missionary from Scotland, discovered in Nashville and in “all the newly formed towns in this western colony, there are few religious people.”

The minutes of the frontier Transylvania Presbytery reveal deep concern about the “prevalence of vice & infidelity, the great apparent declension of true vital religion in too many places.”

Rampant alcoholism and avaricious land-grabbing were matched by the increasing popularity of both universalism (the doctrine that all will be saved) and deism (the belief that God is uninvolved in the world).


Methodist James Smith, traveling near Lexington in the autumn of 1795 feared that “the universalists, joining with the Deists, had given Christianity a deadly stab hereabouts.”

Hyperbole, perhaps. Still, during the six years preceding 1800, the Methodist Church—most popular among the expanding middle and lower classes—declined in national membership from 67,643 to 61,351. In the 1790s the population of frontier Kentucky tripled, but the already meager Methodist membership decreased.

Churches and pastors did not merely wring their hands; they clasped them in prayer—at prayer meetings, at worship, and at national conventions. In 1798 the Presbyterian General Assembly asked that a day be set aside for fasting, humiliation, and prayer to redeem the frontier from “Egyptian darkness.”

Church discipline was thrown into high gear. Church minute books record those excluded from fellowship for alcoholism, profanity, mistreatment of slaves, and sexual immorality. Some congregations were so exacting, they decimated their ranks. No matter, they said; sinning had to be stopped in order that God might again bless.


Divine Flame

All this anxiety, prayer, and discipline, though, were grounded in hope. None was sure when or where it would begin, but many were convinced that God would begin his work of revival. James Smith, after traveling through Kentucky, wrote, “I trust he [God] will yet bring good out of this evil, and that the glory of scriptural religion, [though] obscure for the present, will shine forth hereafter with redoubled luster.”

The “glory of scriptural religion” began to “shine forth” in Kentucky when James McGready arrived in Logan County in 1798 to pastor three small congregations: the Red River, Gaspar River, and Muddy River churches. He brought with him from North Carolina a well-deserved reputation for fiery preaching. He was a large, imposing man with piercing eyes and a voice coarse and tremulous. Barton Stone, pastor of the Cane Ridge Church, said of McGready after hearing him preach, “My mind was chained by him, and followed him closely in his rounds of heaven, earth, and hell with feelings indescribable.”

McGready’s preaching so stirred his congregations that when the Red River church sponsored its annual Communion in June 1800, the spiritual climate was charged. Local ministers were invited to participate, as were Presbyterian William McGee and his Methodist brother John, whose preaching had been exciting churches in Tennessee.

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday passed quietly and reverently—as these Presbyterian Communions were wont to go. On Monday, though, as one local minister preached, a woman who had long sought assurance for her salvation began shouting and singing. The preacher concluded his sermon, and all the ministers left the church—except for the McGee brothers. Presbyterian William sat on the floor near the pulpit and began weeping. Soon the congregation was weeping, seeking full security for salvation.

Methodist John rose to preach; a witness said he exhorted people to let “the Lord God omnipotent reign in their hearts, and to submit to him.” People began to cry and shout.

Then the woman who had first started shouting let out a shrill of anguish. Methodist John McGee, seemingly entranced, made his way to comfort her. Someone (probably his Presbyterian brother) reminded him this was a Presbyterian church; the congregation would not condone emotionalism! Later John recalled, “I turned to go back and was near falling; the power of God was strong upon me. I turned again and, losing sight of the fear of man, I went through the house shouting and exhorting with all possible ecstasy and energy, and the floor was soon covered with the slain"—people were falling in ecstasy.

 

[Dadoalex]

You said God had sex with Mary which in those days was the only way to have a baby. Don’t try to squirm out of this. You are wrong and so are the atheist dushbags.

No, I said God raped Mary.

RAPE.

Probably explains the sexual abuse prevalent for 2000 years in Christian churches.
God raped, so can we.

 

[ding]

No, I said God raped Mary.

RAPE.

Probably explains the sexual abuse prevalent for 2000 years in Christian churches.
God raped, so can we.

I pray to God you never reproduce.

 

[Cougarbear]

No, I said God raped Mary.

RAPE.

Probably explains the sexual abuse prevalent for 2000 years in Christian churches.
God raped, so can we.

Well rape is still sex. You are being very narcissistic. Admit your comment is stupid since there was no sexual intercourse involved. It was a sperm placed in an egg.

 

[Cougarbear]

That's a bullshit argument.

Religion was the major power broker in politics, education and government for centuries of course they had influence and pity the fool who ever spoke out against the power of the church

That is true elsewhere. Not in the United States.