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As Democrats go hard Left, Hispanics head to the Center

Mac1958

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Funny, our mixed-race family was just talking about this last night.

The Democratic Party has long been depending on demographics to lead the way to a more progressive American future. My impression has always been that the party thought the elections of Obama in 2008 and 2012 were a sign that such a process had taken over. That was a major part of the shock of Trump's win.

This is why it's not a good idea to make long term assumptions. One large group has been virtually ignored by the Democratic Party for a long time (as it continues to push its PC/Identity Politics-soaked strategies), and it may not be a good idea for the party to keep making assumptions about the future:


In a recent New York Magazine interview, Democratic pollster David Shor weighed in on his party’s performance in the 2020 election. Based on the interview, it appears that Democrats continue to interpret 2022 in the context of demographics, race and class and less about voters’ belief systems and positions on issues.

Give him credit: Shor does recognize that white liberal elites are pushing the party to the left and alienating certain voter groups, including Hispanics.

“We’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of ‘racial resentment,’” he told the magazine. “So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us.”
 

citygator

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The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs with 32% being independent. Trump won 12 of the 32% in the election which is 37% of the independents. A slight pickup of independents since last election who went from 75% dem to 63% dem. It was almost exclusively a male Hispanic problem.

My bet is it has nothing to do with democratic governing ideas and entirely to do with male Hispanic attitudes on liberal social issues. I do think too much liberal social agenda is off putting to groups but the republicans are no better there.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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What exactly constitutes ‘hard left’?

Supporting the rights and protected liberties of gay and transgender Americans?

Defending the privacy rights of women?

Safeguarding the voting rights of all Americans?

Recognizing the due process rights of immigrants?

Promoting sound, responsible governance such as addressing the infrastructure crisis, ensuring the health and safety of working Americans, and repairing the relationship with America’s allies?

Democrats are the actual conservatives, seeking to preserve settled, accepted, and appropriate public policy.
 

Mac-7

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exactly constitutes ‘hard left’?

Supporting the rights and protected liberties of gay and transgender Americans?

Defending the privacy rights of women?

Safeguarding the voting rights of all Americans?

Recognizing the due process rights of immigrants?

Promoting sound, responsible governance such as addressing the infrastructure crisis, ensuring the health and safety of working Americans, and repairing the relationship with America’s allies?

Democrats are the actual conservatives, seeking to preserve settled, accepted, and appropriate public policy
Starting with the transgender issue forcing girls to compete with men is a VERY far left idea
 

Atticus Finch

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Hard Left
Open borders /illegal aliens/defunding of ICE
Promotion of voter fraud
Endangering the public safety by defunding police
Promote the destruction of the Representative Republic
Promote government interference into private lives
Are anti- individualism
Promote racism and division
Support infant murder
Ever increasing taxation
Punitive energy policies without a viable solution.
Sold out America for foreign interests
Sound governance is not racking up 30 trillion dollars in debt and paying people not work.
Sucking up to our enemies is not foreign relations it is treason.
The unmitigated disaster known as Obamacare
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs with 32% being independent. Trump won 12 of the 32% in the election which is 37% of the independents. A slight pickup of independents since last election who went from 75% dem to 63% dem. It was almost exclusively a male Hispanic problem.

My bet is it has nothing to do with democratic governing ideas and entirely to do with male Hispanic attitudes on liberal social issues. I do think too much liberal social agenda is off putting to groups but the republicans are no better there.
I can only speak anecdotally, but I can say it's my experience that it has quite a bit to do with the social issues.

And I certainly don't expect the Democrats to heed any warnings, but with the insanity currently coming from the Right, it sure as hell concerns me.
 

JoeB131

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Funny, our mixed-race family was just talking about this last night.

The Democratic Party has long been depending on demographics to lead the way to a more progressive American future. My impression has always been that the party thought the elections of Obama in 2008 and 2012 were a sign that such a process had taken over. That was a major part of the shock of Trump's win.

Except nobody ever thought that or said that.

You keep repeating this horseshit, Vichy Mac, but it's still horseshit.

Trump didn't do any better with ANY demographic group than Mitt Romney did. Hillary lost because so many self-righteous assholes voted for third parties.

This is why it's not a good idea to make long term assumptions. One large group has been virtually ignored by the Democratic Party for a long time (as it continues to push its PC/Identity Politics-soaked strategies), and it may not be a good idea for the party to keep making assumptions about the future:

Again, not really.

Let's look at the percentages GOP candidates have gotten among Hispanics since 2004.

Bush got 44% of the Hispanic vote in 2004. That was actually a high mark and you have to give him credit for doing outreach

McCain, despite being a sponsor of immigration reform, took on the hard nativist, anti-immigrant position and he got 31% of the Hispanic vote.

The Weird Mormon Robot they ran in 2012 continued this nonsense and he got 27% of the Hispanic vote.

Trump spewed his open racism and still managed to get 29% of the Hispanic vote. But most of that is Cuban Americans, who tend to tack more conservative, anyway.

In 2020, he got 32% of the Hispanic vote... again, largely skewed by the Cuban-"American" vote in Florida. Probably has a lot more to do with the fact he was an incumbent than his policies suddenly became popular. Biden ALSO improved over Hillary's performance with Hispanics.

In a recent New York Magazine interview, Democratic pollster David Shor weighed in on his party’s performance in the 2020 election. Based on the interview, it appears that Democrats continue to interpret 2022 in the context of demographics, race and class and less about voters’ belief systems and positions on issues.

Give him credit: Shor does recognize that white liberal elites are pushing the party to the left and alienating certain voter groups, including Hispanics.

“We’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of ‘racial resentment,’” he told the magazine. “So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us.”

Yes, the Democrats should be "Republican Lite", according to Vichy Mac. Don't stand for anything, don't believe in anything. Just do what the pollsters tell you.

Then you can be like Hillary Clinton, who never took a position without poll testing it first. Oh, wait. We saw how well she did.
 

JoeB131

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The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs with 32% being independent. Trump won 12 of the 32% in the election which is 37% of the independents. A slight pickup of independents since last election who went from 75% dem to 63% dem. It was almost exclusively a male Hispanic problem.

My bet is it has nothing to do with democratic governing ideas and entirely to do with male Hispanic attitudes on liberal social issues. I do think too much liberal social agenda is off putting to groups but the republicans are no better there.

Well said, but Vichy Mac keeps repeating the same garbage no matter how many times you correct him.

The Democrats are going to take a bath in 2022 because the out of power party ALWAYS does. But don't worry, when they do, Vichy Mac will blame "hard left" politics and political correctness.
 

Votto

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Funny, our mixed-race family was just talking about this last night.

The Democratic Party has long been depending on demographics to lead the way to a more progressive American future. My impression has always been that the party thought the elections of Obama in 2008 and 2012 were a sign that such a process had taken over. That was a major part of the shock of Trump's win.

This is why it's not a good idea to make long term assumptions. One large group has been virtually ignored by the Democratic Party for a long time (as it continues to push its PC/Identity Politics-soaked strategies), and it may not be a good idea for the party to keep making assumptions about the future:


In a recent New York Magazine interview, Democratic pollster David Shor weighed in on his party’s performance in the 2020 election. Based on the interview, it appears that Democrats continue to interpret 2022 in the context of demographics, race and class and less about voters’ belief systems and positions on issues.

Give him credit: Shor does recognize that white liberal elites are pushing the party to the left and alienating certain voter groups, including Hispanics.

“We’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of ‘racial resentment,’” he told the magazine. “So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us.”
Orange man bad

Besides, January 6th.

It really is that simple.

You just make things harder than they have to be, and give voters too much credit.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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lol

Senator Manchin would certainly be surprised to find out he’s ‘hard left.’

What’s ridiculous about this nonsense and lie that Democrats are ‘hard left’ is that Democrats don’t vote for or elect those who are ‘hard left.’

President Biden is a prime example; Biden is an Old Guard New Deal/Fair Deal/Great Society Democrat – you can’t get anymore mainstream and centrist than that.
 

JoeB131

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lol

Senator Manchin would certainly be surprised to find out he’s ‘hard left.’

What’s ridiculous about this nonsense and lie that Democrats are ‘hard left’ is that Democrats don’t vote for or elect those who are ‘hard left.’

President Biden is a prime example; Biden is an Old Guard New Deal/Fair Deal/Great Society Democrat – you can’t get anymore mainstream and centrist than that.


Shhhh... Vichy Mac is upset that we don't have two Republican Parties. He totally wants Republican Lite.

1624530534396.png


Here's the ironic thing. The Democratic "Moderates" he likes are usually the ones who get thrown out on their asses in midterms.

The problem with his premise that Democrats shouldn't stand for anything, just appeal to the lowest common denominator, is that they tried that in 2006/2008.

And they had overwealming majorities in the Senate and House, but they were made up of squishy DINO's like his hero Jim Webb. Which means they couldn't even get the most basic things passed in Obama's first two years and ended up losing Congress anyway.

Stand for principles, make your stand on principles... Everything else will follow.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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Democrats can be found from one side of the political spectrum to the other – but as a Party their policies have always been mainstream and centrist, reflecting the opinions of most Americans – including privacy rights and reproductive autonomy, the decriminalization of marijuana, and the right of same-sex couples to marry.

So much for Democrats being ‘hard left.’
 

citygator

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lol

Senator Manchin would certainly be surprised to find out he’s ‘hard left.’

What’s ridiculous about this nonsense and lie that Democrats are ‘hard left’ is that Democrats don’t vote for or elect those who are ‘hard left.’

President Biden is a prime example; Biden is an Old Guard New Deal/Fair Deal/Great Society Democrat – you can’t get anymore mainstream and centrist than that.


Shhhh... Vichy Mac is upset that we don't have two Republican Parties. He totally wants Republican Lite.

View attachment 504955

Here's the ironic thing. The Democratic "Moderates" he likes are usually the ones who get thrown out on their asses in midterms.

The problem with his premise that Democrats shouldn't stand for anything, just appeal to the lowest common denominator, is that they tried that in 2006/2008.

And they had overwealming majorities in the Senate and House, but they were made up of squishy DINO's like his hero Jim Webb. Which means they couldn't even get the most basic things passed in Obama's first two years and ended up losing Congress anyway.

Stand for principles, make your stand on principles... Everything else will follow.
Agree. I think the democrats have a strong platform that is quite moderate - look at Hillary’s or Biden’s. Republicans like to take the most extreme democrats and act like they have any say in the platform. Unlike the right where extremism is the norm.

Sure there are numbskulls in the dem party but as a group it’s not dangerous to America. The Republicans are one notch under fucking Handmaidens Tale.
 

JoeB131

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Agree. I think the democrats have a strong platform that is quite moderate - look at Hillary’s or Biden’s. Republicans like to take the most extreme democrats and act like they have any say in the platform. Unlike the right where extremism is the norm.

Sure there are numbskulls in the dem party but as a group it’s not dangerous to America. The Republicans are one notch under fucking Handmaidens Tale.

I agree, the inmates have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

But I think there is a deeper problem.

Americans tend to be economically liberal and socially conservative. The Democrats did their best when they put their emphasis on economic liberalism and not social liberalism. (1932-1964).

The Republicans have learned that you can get average people to embrace economic conservatism, which isn't in their best economic interests, by pushing social conservative issues like abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools, opposition to evolution and oh my God, that man's wearing a dress!!!

Throw in a tinge of racism, and in good economic times, you can get white working class people to vote for that shit, like they did in 2016 and 2000.

Of course, when Republicans screw up the economy, and they always do, then enough people come back to the Democrats to save us.

Now, all of that said, yes, you could take the Vichy Mac route and just give up on standing for anything and just go along with the Republicans when they want to ban abortion or throw up a mean-spirited wall... but does that solve anything?

It can't be just about winning elections.
 

Meathead

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Funny, our mixed-race family was just talking about this last night.

The Democratic Party has long been depending on demographics to lead the way to a more progressive American future. My impression has always been that the party thought the elections of Obama in 2008 and 2012 were a sign that such a process had taken over. That was a major part of the shock of Trump's win.

This is why it's not a good idea to make long term assumptions. One large group has been virtually ignored by the Democratic Party for a long time (as it continues to push its PC/Identity Politics-soaked strategies), and it may not be a good idea for the party to keep making assumptions about the future:


In a recent New York Magazine interview, Democratic pollster David Shor weighed in on his party’s performance in the 2020 election. Based on the interview, it appears that Democrats continue to interpret 2022 in the context of demographics, race and class and less about voters’ belief systems and positions on issues.

Give him credit: Shor does recognize that white liberal elites are pushing the party to the left and alienating certain voter groups, including Hispanics.

“We’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of ‘racial resentment,’” he told the magazine. “So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us.”
And this is an epiphany for you?
 

Cellblock2429

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What exactly constitutes ‘hard left’?

Supporting the rights and protected liberties of gay and transgender Americans?

Defending the privacy rights of women?

Safeguarding the voting rights of all Americans?

Recognizing the due process rights of immigrants?

Promoting sound, responsible governance such as addressing the infrastructure crisis, ensuring the health and safety of working Americans, and repairing the relationship with America’s allies?

Democrats are the actual conservatives, seeking to preserve settled, accepted, and appropriate public policy.
/——/ What a sad sack of Hillary. You preach that stuff but your real agenda is the complete opposite. We’re not fooled.
 

bendog

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The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs withI

its why the dems nearly lost the HOuse and may not even regain it in24. It's the econ and healthcare.
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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Senator Manchin would certainly be surprised to find out he’s ‘hard left.’
What’s ridiculous about this nonsense and lie that Democrats are ‘hard left’ is that Democrats don’t vote for or elect those who are ‘hard left.’
President Biden is a prime example; Biden is an Old Guard New Deal/Fair Deal/Great Society Democrat – you can’t get anymore mainstream and centrist than that.
You can quibble over semantics, and you can (predictably) dismiss the notion out of hand.

I know that's how the game is played. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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And this is an epiphany for you?
Nope. In fact, here's me discussing the danger of PC, discussing what I called the "pushback", in 2013:

Well, it will never disappear. There will always be people who want to leverage strategic hypersensitivity to control the language, and therefore the argument. What's nice to see, though, is the pushback.

Being called a "racist" because you disagree with someone whose skin is a different color no longer has the effect that it used to. Over time, hopefully, the people who are trying to shut down a person with a different opinion will actually have to defend their opinion with reason, not with some contrived, diversionary "offense".

I've brought this up many, many, many times here. The Democratic Party continues to move Left at its own peril. It paid the price in 2016 and under-performed in 2020 because of it.



Source: Post 92, Political Correctness: The Scourge of Our Times
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs withI

its why the dems nearly lost the HOuse and may not even regain it in24. It's the econ and healthcare.
They're so committed to what has worked in the past that they take their eyes off the ball.
 

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