As Democrats go hard Left, Hispanics head to the Center

[citygator]

I've brought this up many, many, many times here. The Democratic Party continues to move Left at its own peril. It paid the price in 2016 and under-performed in 2020 because of it.

I’m not gonna trap myself into suggesting the Dems are perfect but I’m trying to think how they’ve moved left? If anything they’ve given up on most issues except healthcare, minimum wage, and immigration reform. Minimum wage hasn’t moved in years. No new labor protections. And immigration reform doesn’t appear eminent to me. All of those are extremely popular by the way.

 

[Harry Dresden]

What exactly constitutes ‘hard left’?

Supporting the rights and protected liberties of gay and transgender Americans?

Defending the privacy rights of women?

Safeguarding the voting rights of all Americans?

Recognizing the due process rights of immigrants?

Promoting sound, responsible governance such as addressing the infrastructure crisis, ensuring the health and safety of working Americans, and repairing the relationship with America’s allies?

Democrats are the actual conservatives, seeking to preserve settled, accepted, and appropriate public policy.

hard left is people like you jones.....

 

[Crepitus]

The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs with 32% being independent. Trump won 12 of the 32% in the election which is 37% of the independents. A slight pickup of independents since last election who went from 75% dem to 63% dem. It was almost exclusively a male Hispanic problem.

My bet is it has nothing to do with democratic governing ideas and entirely to do with male Hispanic attitudes on liberal social issues. I do think too much liberal social agenda is off putting to groups but the republicans are no better there.

catholicism.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Funny, our mixed-race family was just talking about this last night.

The Democratic Party has long been depending on demographics to lead the way to a more progressive American future. My impression has always been that the party thought the elections of Obama in 2008 and 2012 were a sign that such a process had taken over. That was a major part of the shock of Trump's win.

Except nobody ever thought that or said that.

You keep repeating this horseshit, Vichy Mac, but it's still horseshit.

Trump didn't do any better with ANY demographic group than Mitt Romney did. Hillary lost because so many self-righteous assholes voted for third parties.

This is why it's not a good idea to make long term assumptions. One large group has been virtually ignored by the Democratic Party for a long time (as it continues to push its PC/Identity Politics-soaked strategies), and it may not be a good idea for the party to keep making assumptions about the future:

Again, not really.

Let's look at the percentages GOP candidates have gotten among Hispanics since 2004.

Bush got 44% of the Hispanic vote in 2004. That was actually a high mark and you have to give him credit for doing outreach

McCain, despite being a sponsor of immigration reform, took on the hard nativist, anti-immigrant position and he got 31% of the Hispanic vote.

The Weird Mormon Robot they ran in 2012 continued this nonsense and he got 27% of the Hispanic vote.

Trump spewed his open racism and still managed to get 29% of the Hispanic vote. But most of that is Cuban Americans, who tend to tack more conservative, anyway.

In 2020, he got 32% of the Hispanic vote... again, largely skewed by the Cuban-"American" vote in Florida. Probably has a lot more to do with the fact he was an incumbent than his policies suddenly became popular. Biden ALSO improved over Hillary's performance with Hispanics.

In a recent New York Magazine interview, Democratic pollster David Shor weighed in on his party’s performance in the 2020 election. Based on the interview, it appears that Democrats continue to interpret 2022 in the context of demographics, race and class and less about voters’ belief systems and positions on issues.

Give him credit: Shor does recognize that white liberal elites are pushing the party to the left and alienating certain voter groups, including Hispanics.
“We’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of ‘racial resentment,’” he told the magazine. “So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us.”

Yes, the Democrats should be "Republican Lite", according to Vichy Mac. Don't stand for anything, don't believe in anything. Just do what the pollsters tell you.

Then you can be like Hillary Clinton, who never took a position without poll testing it first. Oh, wait. We saw how well she did.

Hillary lost because so many self-righteous assholes voted for third parties.
bullshit....she lost because not many people like her...

 

[Unkotare]

Democrats can be found from one side of the political spectrum to the other – but as a Party their policies have always been mainstream and centrist, reflecting the opinions of most Americans – including privacy rights and reproductive autonomy, the decriminalization of marijuana, and the right of same-sex couples to marry.

So much for Democrats being ‘hard left.’

 

[Harry Dresden]

lol

Senator Manchin would certainly be surprised to find out he’s ‘hard left.’

What’s ridiculous about this nonsense and lie that Democrats are ‘hard left’ is that Democrats don’t vote for or elect those who are ‘hard left.’

President Biden is a prime example; Biden is an Old Guard New Deal/Fair Deal/Great Society Democrat – you can’t get anymore mainstream and centrist than that.

if biden is so mainstream why did he pick a far lefty for VP?.....

 

[Jets]

From the OP link:



Cuban Americans in Florida are not necessarily in tune ideologically with Mexican Americans in California. In making assumptions, understanding these subgroups is essential to get a more accurate picture of what is a complex community.

What is becoming more and more evident is that Hispanic voters will be in play for both parties next year. Democrats have to stop assuming all minority voters, especially Hispanics, are on board the progressive train, nor will an effective GOTV effort assure victory.

Republicans have to understand that Hispanics, by and large, are not conservatives — at least not yet — but they are centrists behaving more like independents than Democrats and are open to a center-right economic message. If the party focuses on the economy and jobs, this is a growing voter group with the potential to become an important part of the Republican coalition.

 

[Mac1958]

I've brought this up many, many, many times here. The Democratic Party continues to move Left at its own peril. It paid the price in 2016 and under-performed in 2020 because of it.

I’m not gonna trap myself into suggesting the Dems are perfect but I’m trying to think how they’ve moved left? If anything they’ve given up on most issues except healthcare, minimum wage, and immigration reform. Minimum wage hasn’t moved in years. No new labor protections. And immigration reform doesn’t appear eminent to me. All of those are extremely popular by the way.

By far, it's on the cultural issues. The many topics surrounding PC and Identity Politics just turn off a lot of the electorate.

I see CNN and MSBNC giving FOX a lot of crap for focusing on the smaller, individual cultural issues and stories, but I think they're right in doing so, at least from a strategic perspective.

I'm not saying it's a killer politically, but I do think it's a drag on the party at a really lousy time.

 

[Mac1958]

From the OP link:



Cuban Americans in Florida are not necessarily in tune ideologically with Mexican Americans in California. In making assumptions, understanding these subgroups is essential to get a more accurate picture of what is a complex community.

What is becoming more and more evident is that Hispanic voters will be in play for both parties next year. Democrats have to stop assuming all minority voters, especially Hispanics, are on board the progressive train, nor will an effective GOTV effort assure victory.

Republicans have to understand that Hispanics, by and large, are not conservatives — at least not yet — but they are centrists behaving more like independents than Democrats and are open to a center-right economic message. If the party focuses on the economy and jobs, this is a growing voter group with the potential to become an important part of the Republican coalition.

I can only provide anecdotal proof, but I think the party has been making poor assumptions on this for a long time. It might be more obvious, if it weren't for the fact that the GOP has done such a solid job of being so freakin' repulsive itself.

 

[Harry Dresden]

From the OP link:



Cuban Americans in Florida are not necessarily in tune ideologically with Mexican Americans in California. In making assumptions, understanding these subgroups is essential to get a more accurate picture of what is a complex community.

What is becoming more and more evident is that Hispanic voters will be in play for both parties next year. Democrats have to stop assuming all minority voters, especially Hispanics, are on board the progressive train, nor will an effective GOTV effort assure victory.

Republicans have to understand that Hispanics, by and large, are not conservatives — at least not yet — but they are centrists behaving more like independents than Democrats and are open to a center-right economic message. If the party focuses on the economy and jobs, this is a growing voter group with the potential to become an important part of the Republican coalition.

I can only provide anecdotal proof, but I think the party has been making poor assumptions on this for a long time. It might be more obvious, if it weren't for the fact that the GOP has done such a solid job of being so freakin' repulsive itself.

sorry mac but anecdotal proof is not accepted around here.....people will accept what someone told them though...

 

[bendog]

The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs withI

Hispanic voters say economy, health care and COVID-19 are top issues in 2020 presidential election

About eight-in-ten Latino registered voters and U.S. voters overall rate the economy as very important to their vote.

www.pewresearch.org

its why the dems nearly lost the HOuse and may not even regain it in24. It's the econ and healthcare.

They're so committed to what has worked in the past that they take their eyes off the ball.

Well, WJC was about the econ and HC, and even a black guy named Hussien from kenya got elected after W started a war and killed the 1990s econ, but he ... passed healthcare.

But even after those two issues, it's racial inequality, violent crime, and the Supreme Court ranking above climate change and immigration. And Biden really screwed up on immigration.

It just seems to me that overall latinos are pretty much just a bit slightly left of center, which is where the dems have to live to win elections in this pretty conservative country. There are some things workers can't do without govt help because there are no unions anymore, but most people don't want to be told what to do. Whenever the gop truly implodes, the dems fall for the same shit time and time again. Gore would have won if he hadn't pissed off the miners. Reagan would never have won even as bad as Carter screwed up in Iraq without Teddy challenging him from the left.

 

[Mac1958]

The headline of the article doesn’t reflect the story behind it. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party is going “hard left” and none was presented.

48% of Hispanics are Dems vs 20% for pubs withI

Hispanic voters say economy, health care and COVID-19 are top issues in 2020 presidential election

About eight-in-ten Latino registered voters and U.S. voters overall rate the economy as very important to their vote.

www.pewresearch.org

its why the dems nearly lost the HOuse and may not even regain it in24. It's the econ and healthcare.

They're so committed to what has worked in the past that they take their eyes off the ball.

Well, WJC was about the econ and HC, and even a black guy named Hussien from kenya got elected after W started a war and killed the 1990s econ, but he ... passed healthcare.

But even after those two issues, it's racial inequality, violent crime, and the Supreme Court ranking above climate change and immigration. And Biden really screwed up on immigration.

It just seems to me that overall latinos are pretty much just a bit slightly left of center, which is where the dems have to live to win elections in this pretty conservative country. There are some things workers can't do without govt help because there are no unions anymore, but most people don't want to be told what to do. Whenever the gop truly implodes, the dems fall for the same shit time and time again. Gore would have won if he hadn't pissed off the miners. Reagan would never have won even as bad as Carter screwed up in Iraq without Teddy challenging him from the left.

Yep. This stuff is so often a self-inflicted wound.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Russia gets the pipeline, Iran gets the bomb, we get the retard, the last thing we need is DC democrats controlling states voting

 

[JoeB131]

You can quibble over semantics, and you can (predictably) dismiss the notion out of hand.

I know that's how the game is played. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I think the problem is, you just don't have the facts to back up your contentions. There's nothing really 'radical left" of what Biden is proposing. It's really the same kind of stuff Democrats have been proposing for the last 50 years. Maybe it looks further to the left because the QAnon nuts, gun fetishists, Libertarian Children and Religious Zealots have pulled the the GOP so far to the right even Ronald Reagan wouldn't recognize it at this point.

Also, as much as you bleat about compromising, most of what is at stake can't be compromised on. Are you going to compromise a woman's right to choose or meet the racists halfway on trying to re-introduce Jim Crow?

 

[JoeB131]

I've brought this up many, many, many times here. The Democratic Party continues to move Left at its own peril. It paid the price in 2016 and under-performed in 2020 because of it.

No, it didn't.

It paid a price in 2016 because it nominated a shrill bitch that even most Democrats didn't like. Please, please, please don't pretend it was about anything else.

As for "underperforming" in 2020... um, again. No. Whenever you have a big loss in house seats in a midterm, you are going to have some ebb back in the general. This was the case in 2016 (Dems gained back 6 seats after losing 13 in 2014), 2012 (Picked up 8 seats after losing 63) and in 1996 (Picked up 3 seats after losing 54).

So in 2020, after the Democrats picked up 42 seats, they gave 14 of them back in largely gerrymandered districts.

The Democrats are not going to win by becoming Republican Lite.

 

[JoeB131]

Hillary lost because so many self-righteous assholes voted for third parties.
bullshit....she lost because not many people like her...

I didn't like her. I still voted for her because Trump was so dangerous.

But you miss my point. Trump go no more votes than Mitt Romney got in terms of percentages. The reason why Hillary lost is because a large chunk of people who normally vote Democratic voted for third parties to show how self-righteous they are. It's like they learned not a fucking thing from the Ralph Nader Debacle in 2000.

All of which would be a moot point if we weren't still using the Worst Idea of Dead Slave Rapists to pick a president. The people by and large, got it right. Hillary won the popular vote.

 

[JoeB131]

By far, it's on the cultural issues. The many topics surrounding PC and Identity Politics just turn off a lot of the electorate.

I see CNN and MSBNC giving FOX a lot of crap for focusing on the smaller, individual cultural issues and stories, but I think they're right in doing so, at least from a strategic perspective.

I'm not saying it's a killer politically, but I do think it's a drag on the party at a really lousy time.

Yup, so what's your solution? Give up on racial equality? Let the GOP reimpose Jim Crow. Give those thug cops their gun back so we can make racist white people feel better about themselves?

Get bent, you phony. What you are proposing is a recipe for loss. The main reason why Democrats didn't show up for Congressional Races is that Pelosi showed herself to be completely ineffective in slowing Trump down any. Trump got more pushback when Paul Ryan ran the House.

 

[MisterBeale]

Funny, our mixed-race family was just talking about this last night.

The Democratic Party has long been depending on demographics to lead the way to a more progressive American future. My impression has always been that the party thought the elections of Obama in 2008 and 2012 were a sign that such a process had taken over. That was a major part of the shock of Trump's win.

This is why it's not a good idea to make long term assumptions. One large group has been virtually ignored by the Democratic Party for a long time (as it continues to push its PC/Identity Politics-soaked strategies), and it may not be a good idea for the party to keep making assumptions about the future:

As Democrats go hard left, Hispanics head to the center - Roll Call

OPINION — Hispanics, by and large, are not conservatives — at least not yet — but they are centrists behaving more like independents.

www.rollcall.com

In a recent New York Magazine interview, Democratic pollster David Shor weighed in on his party’s performance in the 2020 election. Based on the interview, it appears that Democrats continue to interpret 2022 in the context of demographics, race and class and less about voters’ belief systems and positions on issues.

Give him credit: Shor does recognize that white liberal elites are pushing the party to the left and alienating certain voter groups, including Hispanics.
“We’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of ‘racial resentment,’” he told the magazine. “So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us.”

I've been saying this for years.

Minorities are liberals that love the American dream, they are liberals, not leftists.

The white upper class elites in America, which are highly trained intellectuals have technocratic dreams which rely on a leftist paradigm to shoe horn into the culture. . . they are overplaying their hand, IMO.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Hillary lost because so many self-righteous assholes voted for third parties.
bullshit....she lost because not many people like her...

I didn't like her. I still voted for her because Trump was so dangerous.

But you miss my point. Trump go no more votes than Mitt Romney got in terms of percentages. The reason why Hillary lost is because a large chunk of people who normally vote Democratic voted for third parties to show how self-righteous they are. It's like they learned not a fucking thing from the Ralph Nader Debacle in 2000.

All of which would be a moot point if we weren't still using the Worst Idea of Dead Slave Rapists to pick a president. The people by and large, got it right. Hillary won the popular vote.

bullshit joe.....people voted third party because they are sick and tired of the 2 parties and same old shit they offer.....self righteous my ass....and you voted for hillary because you are a democrat...

 

[Mac1958]

Funny, our mixed-race family was just talking about this last night.

The Democratic Party has long been depending on demographics to lead the way to a more progressive American future. My impression has always been that the party thought the elections of Obama in 2008 and 2012 were a sign that such a process had taken over. That was a major part of the shock of Trump's win.

This is why it's not a good idea to make long term assumptions. One large group has been virtually ignored by the Democratic Party for a long time (as it continues to push its PC/Identity Politics-soaked strategies), and it may not be a good idea for the party to keep making assumptions about the future:

As Democrats go hard left, Hispanics head to the center - Roll Call

OPINION — Hispanics, by and large, are not conservatives — at least not yet — but they are centrists behaving more like independents.

www.rollcall.com

In a recent New York Magazine interview, Democratic pollster David Shor weighed in on his party’s performance in the 2020 election. Based on the interview, it appears that Democrats continue to interpret 2022 in the context of demographics, race and class and less about voters’ belief systems and positions on issues.

Give him credit: Shor does recognize that white liberal elites are pushing the party to the left and alienating certain voter groups, including Hispanics.
“We’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of ‘racial resentment,’” he told the magazine. “So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us.”

I've been saying this for years.

Minorities are liberals that love the American dream, they are liberals, not leftists.

The white upper class elites in America, which are highly trained intellectuals have technocratic dreams which rely on a leftist paradigm to shoe horn into the culture. . . they are overplaying their hand, IMO.

Nice to have a rare kindred spirit here.

As bad as that is in terms of hurting the organic growth of minorities, it also plays into the hands of the Right. It gives them reasonable material to add to their grievances.