Ark of the Covenant

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The old testament is easier to explain through metaphor than to explain it by the historical record, or even by testing it's scientific accuracy.

Well, sure. Why would anyone think otherwise, save for indoctrination? It was written at a time when people were abjectly ignorant of natural history and of the size and scope of the planet.

 

[meaner gene]

I read the NT 5 times...MM is treated as though she is an angel.
Try reading it for yourself.

She is a reformed woman. Which means she didn't start out as an angel. Also the tax collector was an evil man that Jesus tried to reform.

 

[SweetSue92]

Not a mystery to me at all.

Look at the dystopia we have lived in for the last year. Panic whipped up in little under a month over a virus with all attending religious fervor, most of which was a patent lie. Now THERE'S a religion for you to go after, if you dare.

 

[Gracie]

OFF TOPIC OFF TOPIC...WAAAAAAAAH OFF TOPIC!

Sorry. I couldn't resist. Carry on with topic or not, lol.

I know. I'm being ornery and cantankerous.

 

[SweetSue92]

Sorry you're right. My point is so say: do not think "indoctrination" or "people believing things that are not true" was only something ancient ("stupid") people could do (this is a general statement to everyone). We have plenty of evidence that even in the so-called age of information, people will believe a lot of complete crap just because they will. That was my point.

I put a LOT more credence in the OT than I do any number of things floating around on the internet these days

 

[Gracie]

Right about this thread going off topic? lol. I don't care. It's a discussion and like any path..no telling where it will go.

Kinda like taking your dog out for a walk and instead of the dog following you, you follow the dog. Interesting walk is probably what you will get...not excluding smelly trash cans and butt sniffing other people.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yes, I took it off topic. But really the big point is: people have not changed. We just have better technology. That's all.

 

[Gracie]

Speaking of off topic...I wonder..did the Ark cause Atlantis to fall?

 

[Indeependent]

I read the NT 5 times...MM is treated as though she is an angel.
Try reading it for yourself.

She is a reformed woman. Which means she didn't start out as an angel. Also the tax collector was an evil man that Jesus tried to reform.

What an insight! A Tax Collector evil?!
The only thing that reforms a Tax Collector is death.
You know the Tax Collectors used to bid for the job.

 

[ding]

In other words, of irrefutable proof of G-d's existence existed, then free-will, which is also part of the ineffable plan would cease to exist and the whole plan comes tumbling down.

I'm not even sure we know what free will actually means and accurately portray it. To most people free will simply means the ability to choose to do right or to choose to not do right. In that regard free will is an artifact of intelligence and is merely used to distinguish humans from animals. Animals operate on instinct and impulses. Humans do too but have the ability to override our instincts and impulses.

Of course it could be that we only have free will if we only choose to do the right thing. Under that definition most people don't have free will. And could only achieve free will if they totally surrendered to God and became slaves of God which would tend to turn our perception of free will on its head.

Under the first definition knowing God exists would not negate free will. Behaving like God exists would.

Under the second definition we would only have free will if we behaved as if God exists. In other words, we don't have free will as long as we choose to not do good.

But I disagree that having irrefutable proof of G-d's existence would negate our choice to do good or not do good. Knowing and doing are two different things.

 

[ding]

The origin or the scriptures cannot.

Why not?

Well, I'm going to use the argument of Oolon Culluphid.

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says G-d, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "Our own existence is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says G-d, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanished in a puff of logic."

In other words, of irrefutable proof of G-d's existence existed, then free-will, which is also part of the ineffable plan would cease to exist and the whole plan comes tumbling down.

You cannot prove God exists because prophecy is like a drug trip.
Even if you experience prophecy, you are still human and can go bad.
The Prophets have no shortage of Godly people who caved into their non-Godly desires.

I don't see how it can be any other way. It's not a coincidence the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce life and intelligence. So I disagree that we cannot prove God exists. We can prove God exists through the light of human reason through the study of what was created using logic and experience.

 

[Indeependent]

The origin or the scriptures cannot.

Why not?

Well, I'm going to use the argument of Oolon Culluphid.

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says G-d, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "Our own existence is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says G-d, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanished in a puff of logic."

In other words, of irrefutable proof of G-d's existence existed, then free-will, which is also part of the ineffable plan would cease to exist and the whole plan comes tumbling down.

You cannot prove God exists because prophecy is like a drug trip.
Even if you experience prophecy, you are still human and can go bad.
The Prophets have no shortage of Godly people who caved into their non-Godly desires.

I don't see how it can be any other way. It's not a coincidence the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce life and intelligence. So I disagree that we cannot prove God exists. We can prove God exists through the light of human reason through the study of what was created using logic and experience.

I am addressing an audience that has never, and never will, do the homework you just posted needs to be done.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not a mystery to me at all.

Look at the dystopia we have lived in for the last year. Panic whipped up in little under a month over a virus with all attending religious fervor, most of which was a patent lie. Now THERE'S a religion for you to go after, if you dare.

No need. That is all nonsense. And we better learn some lessons for the next pandemic. Not least of which is that a bunch of reactionary people will take a stupid stance when the pandemic is politicized.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The only thing that reforms a Tax Collector is death.

Good god man. This is the year 2021, not 21.

 

[Indeependent]

The only thing that reforms a Tax Collector is death.

Good god man. This is the year 2021, not 21.

Human nature never changes.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The only thing that reforms a Tax Collector is death.

Good god man. This is the year 2021, not 21.

Human nature never changes.

Yes, we just get better as a society at pointing at stupid, evil shit like you just said and deeming it unacceptable. And we have secular ideas to thank for that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Of course it could be that we only have free will if we only choose to do the right thing. Under that definition most people don't have free will. And could only achieve free will if they totally surrendered to God and became slaves of God

I am addressing an audience that has never, and never will, do the homework you just posted needs to be done.

.
no homework necessary - purity of spirit is all that is required.

they'll never accomplish the feat to become pure as prescribed by the religion of antiquity and equal to the gods for admission to the Everlasting through triumph by being slaves to the scriptures of the desert religions even for those that consider such an endeavor as homework.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

purity of spirit

And just exactly what in the hell is that? Prob for a different thread.

 

[ding]

The old testament is easier to explain through metaphor than to explain it by the historical record, or even by testing it's scientific accuracy.

Well, sure. Why would anyone think otherwise, save for indoctrination? It was written at a time when people were abjectly ignorant of natural history and of the size and scope of the planet.

And yet they knew the universe was created from nothing and that man was a product of that creation 6,000 years before science did.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And yet they knew the universe was created from nothing and that man was a product of that creation 6,000 years before science did.

No they didn't. Get that nonsense out of here. They claimed to "know" a lot of things, almost all nonsense.

This is like the guy who wakes up every day and says it is going to rain. Then, on the days it does rain, he says: "I told you so!". Pure nonsense.