Ark of the Covenant

[Sherlock Holmes]

Actually, what he said in post # 356 was “there is no salvation outside God's Church.”

The logic used by the Church - or anyone for that matter - should begin with defining what Jesus meant in John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me" - which I have yet to see the Church - or anyone for that matter do. I think any doctrine on this subject should start with the boundary condition that God saves who God saves despite what anyone else says or believes. Because to do otherwise would be speaking for God and that's not a good idea.

The Church's logic then moves from John 14:6 to John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin" to conclude a person is not responsible for what they could not have known which makes sense in the context of accountability. Then the Church's logic moves to Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me” as the Church's basis for being obligated to evangelize all men so that ignorance of Christ is not an excuse which also makes sense in the context of accountability.

The problem with all of this - or anyone else's logic - is that it ultimately ends with speaking for God. Which as I said earlier, isn't a good idea. It would be much better if we actually defined what we thought John 14:6 actually meant in practical terms. For me it means to pick up my cross and follow Christ's example. Which first and foremost means to die to self. It's the only way to see reality.

You raise a good point, much of what Jesus said is utterly alien, even his trusted disciples were often utterly confused by what he said.

It was Jesus who revealed the "father" that entity was unknown to us until Jesus spoke of him, I sometimes listen to the Bible, I pick up details that simply pass me by when I read, this is my favorite narrator - but I am English so that's probably why:

 

[BreezeWood]

^^^ religious nutjob

mary and joseph chosen by the heavens for not fearing the liar moses and their commandments, judaism - the three wise men sent by the heavens that no harm would be done to them.

have you found the phony tablets you swear too - christianity the religion of forgeries and fallacies.

 

[BreezeWood]

Nobody can know of God unless God wills it, we can do nothing on our own.

to know the heavens is far better than even knowing a particular mythical creature regardless their proclivity.

 

[ding]

have you found the phony tablets you swear too - christianity the religion of forgeries and fallacies.

You really are a religious nutjob.