Are you ashamed of your heritage?

[rightwinger]

The wanton murdering of blacks in NYC is yet another little known fact. Idiots like RW like to condemn Southerns for racism and murder, but northerners weren’t much different.

Yea they were

They didn’t have four million slaves and then maintain Jim Crow for 100 years

 

[Quantrill]

Yea they were

They didn’t have four million slaves and then maintain Jim Crow for 100 years

Gee, what were those Northern Black Codes for?

Quantrill

 

[gipper]

It was an attack against a military installation which they took from the U.S.
An act of war by any measure

WTF were they thinking?
Sumter was no threat to Charleston and Lincoln was only sending food and water

DIdnt they know it would lead to war?

All other federal facilities throughout the seceding states transferred without incident.

Think idiot!

 

[Quantrill]

Absolutely

No need to provide arms
They were fully armed and had never used their munitions
S Carolina should have provided food so that Lincoln didn’t have to

How about some reference where you dream this shit up? There were attempts by Buchannan and later Lincoln to reinforce Sumter. Both involved men and arms.

Concerning first your statement, post #(394), that Sumter was no threat to the South: From (The Demon Of Unrest), Erik Larson, Crown Publishing Group, 2024)

"On December 28 Pickens banned all shipments of arms and supplies to Fort Sumter...Anderson's look outs saw signs that Carolina forces were establishing new outposts on nearby islands." p. (163)

"Anderson was perplexed by Governor Picken's bellicosity, it seemed foolhardy. 'He knows not how entirely the city of Charleston is in my power." Anderson wrote in a letter to Adjutant Cooper on January 1, 'I can cut his communication off from the sea, and thereby prevent the reception of supplies, and close the harbor, even at night, by destroying the light-houses'." p. (163-164)

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[Quantrill]

Absolutely

No need to provide arms
They were fully armed and had never used their munitions
S Carolina should have provided food so that Lincoln didn’t have to

Concerning the attempt by Buchannan to reinforce Sumter: From, (The Demon Of Unrest, Erik Larson, Crown Publishing Group, 2024)

"Will the President permit general Scott, without reference to the War Department and otherwise, as secretly as possible, to send two hundred and fifty recruits from New York harbor to re-enforce Fort Sumter, together with some extra muskets or rifles, ammunition, and subsistence stores?" p.(164)

"It is hoped that a sloop of war and cutter may be ordered for the same purpose as early as tomorrow." p.(164)

"On New Year's Eve, General Scott sent a message directly to the commander of Fort Monroe Virginia...to get the Brooklyn ready and to load it with troops and arms, and provisions to last ninety days. Manage everything as secretly and confidentially as possible, Scott admonished..." p.(165)

"On January 2, the general canceled the Brooklyn mission in favor of a new plan...of chartering and supplying the vessel, a large side-wheeler in regular service to Havana and New Orleans named the Star of the West." p.(180-181)

"The plan called for utmost secrecy. The ship would depart from New York as if on one of its regular voyages but would pick up two hundred well-armed U.S. Army regulars at Governor's Island in New York Harbor before heading South." p.(181)

"Preparations began at once, and on Saturday, January 5, at five P.M., the Star of the West began its voyage south, pausing to pick up the soldiers. Aat about nine o'clock it exited New York Harbor at Sandy Hook and entered the Atlantic." p. (181)

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[Darlo kittu]

It is sad to see so damn many PC people looking for things to be offended by.

This thread makes zero sense

 

[rightwinger]

It is sad to see so damn many PC people looking for things to be offended by.

This thread makes zero senseView attachment 1207737

I have been to Pearl Harbor

Nothing is named for the Japanese attackers
No monuments, no waving Japanese flags

 

[rightwinger]

Concerning the attempt by Buchannan to reinforce Sumter: From, (The Demon Of Unrest, Erik Larson, Crown Publishing Group, 2024)

"Will the President permit general Scott, without reference to the War Department and otherwise, as secretly as possible, to send two hundred and fifty recruits from New York harbor to re-enforce Fort Sumter, together with some extra muskets or rifles, ammunition, and subsistence stores?" p.(164)

"It is hoped that a sloop of war and cutter may be ordered for the same purpose as early as tomorrow." p.(164)

"On New Year's Eve, General Scott sent a message directly to the commander of Fort Monroe Virginia...to get the Brooklyn ready and to load it with troops and arms, and provisions to last ninety days. Manage everything as secretly and confidentially as possible, Scott admonished..." p.(165)

"On January 2, the general canceled the Brooklyn mission in favor of a new plan...of chartering and supplying the vessel, a large side-wheeler in regular service to Havana and New Orleans named the Star of the West." p.(180-181)

"The plan called for utmost secrecy. The ship would depart from New York as if on one of its regular voyages but would pick up two hundred well-armed U.S. Army regulars at Governor's Island in New York Harbor before heading South." p.(181)

"Preparations began at once, and on Saturday, January 5, at five P.M., the Star of the West began its voyage south, pausing to pick up the soldiers. Aat about nine o'clock it exited New York Harbor at Sandy Hook and entered the Atlantic." p. (181)

Quantrill

You claimed Lincoln was sending troops not supplies
This was months before he took office

 

[rightwinger]

All other federal facilities throughout the seceding states transferred without incident.

Think idiot!

So why create an act of war when you didn’t have to?

 

[gipper]

You claimed Lincoln was sending troops not supplies
This was months before he took office

I thought reflexive liberals like yourself opposed war. I realize this is bull shit, but really?

How about you address my questions in post 491?

I’m betting you opposed most modern wars, yet support Lincoln warring on Americans. Do you know the definition of treason as spelled out in the Constitution? You do, because I’ve told you numerous times over the years we’ve debated this topic.

 

[rightwinger]

I’m betting you opposed most modern wars, yet support Lincoln warring on Americans. Do you know the definition of treason as spelled out in the Constitution? You do, because I’ve told you numerous times over the years we’ve debated this topic.

Civil War…..necessary to preserve the Union. The United States is worth fighting for

Spanish American War….US expansionism, not necessary

WWI…..we tried to stay out but eventually had to. US turned the tide. Necessary

WWII?…..after Pearl Harbor we had no choice

Korea…..necessary to drive Communists out of the South but could go either way. MacArthurs push to the Chinese border led to 40,000 unnecessary deaths

VIetnam….turned a Civil War into a Cold War. We were lied to

Dessert Storm….necessary

Afghanistan…..Justified to hunt Al Qaeda but nation building was a disaster

Iraq…….There were no WMDs and we knew it

 

[gipper]

Civil War…..necessary to preserve the Union. The United States is worth fighting for

Spanish American War….US expansionism, not necessary

WWI…..we tried to stay out but eventually had to. US turned the tide. Necessary

WWII?…..after Pearl Harbor we had no choice

Korea…..necessary to drive Communists out of the South but could go either way. MacArthurs push to the Chinese border led to 50,000 unnecessary deaths

VIetnam….turned a Civil War into a Cold War. We were lied to

Dessert Storm….necessary

Afghanistan…..Justified to hunt Al Qaeda but nation building was a disaster

Iraq…….There were no WMDs and we knew it

Save the Union by destroying half of it, causing decades of resentment, racism, and hatred. Yeah only a fool thinks that’s progress. To say nothing of all the suffering, death, and destruction the war caused.

 

[rightwinger]

Save the Union by destroying half of it, causing decades of resentment, racism, and hatred. Yeah only a fool thinks that’s progress. To say nothing of all the suffering, death, and destruction the war caused.

Ya know…..If the Confederacy was formed because of regional or economic reasons, you may have a point
What harm does it do?

But the Confederacy was formed to preserve slavery.
The Confederacy was pure EVIL
Lincoln did civilization a service by destroying it

 

[Darlo kittu]

Ya know…..If the Confederacy was formed because of regional or economic reasons, you may have a point
What harm does it do?

But the Confederacy was formed to preserve slavery.
The Confederacy was pure EVIL
Lincoln did civilization a service by destroying it

Yet some loser libs scream the US us the confederacy because they do not run and control everything

 

[Quantrill]

You claimed Lincoln was sending troops not supplies
This was months before he took office

Yes, I know. Which I clearly stated that one attempt was under Buchannan and another was attempted by Lincoln. See post (504) and (505). It was important to prove the first attempt by Buchannan involving the Star of the West as that is the one most are familiar with. Thus I wanted to dismiss all your lies. Just like I revealed your lie about Sumter being no threat to the South. Which I see you ignored.

Don't worry I am getting to Lincoln. Study and proof takes time and can be laborious. Up to this point you see that food was not why Buchannan sent the Star of the West. He secretly was trying to send arms and troops.

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[rightwinger]

Yes, I know. Which I clearly stated that one attempt was under Buchannan and another was attempted by Lincoln. It was important to prove the first attempt by Buchannan involving the Star of the West as that is the one most are familiar with. Thus I wanted to dismiss all your lies. Just like I revealed your lie about Sumter being not threat to the South. Which I see you ignored.

Don't worry I am getting to Lincoln. Study and proof takes time and can be laborious. Up to this point you see that food was not why Buchannan sent the Star of the West. He secretly was trying to send arms and troops.

Quantrill

Lincoln told S Carolina he was a sending supply ship.
A humanitarian effort.

Carolina should have provided food so that Lincoln didn’t have to.

Carolina could have left the fort while they negotiated with the United States
Instead the chose war

 

[rightwinger]

ust like I revealed your lie about Sumter being not threat to the South. Which I see you ignored.

Sumter was no threat to the port of Charleston.
S Carolina Batteries surrounded the fort. If Sumter attempted to blockade the port and attack ships…..THEN an attack is warranted

Guess what happened after the Confederates took Ft Sumter?
Lincoln blockaded ALL Confederate ports

How did that work out?

 

[Quantrill]

You claimed Lincoln was sending troops not supplies
This was months before he took office

Quotes are from: (The Demon Of Unrest, Erik Larson, Crown Publishing Group, 2024)

Lincoln first of all asked General Winfield Scotts advice about what was needed to reinforce Sumter before his food ran out? Scott said "I should need a fleet of war vessels and transports which, in the scattered disposition of the Navy (as understood), could not be collected in less than four months; 5000 additional regular troops and 20,000 volunteers;...To raise, organize, and discipline such an army, (not to speak of necessary legislation by Congress, not now in secession) would require from six to eight months...the time for succoring Fort Sumter with any means at hand had passed away nearly a month ago. p.(325-326)

Thus you can see that Lincoln is not planning on just sending food to Anderson at Sumter. But Winfield Scott him told him how there was no time. Enter Gustavus Vasa Fox. "Lincoln met with a former U.S. Navy lieutenant named Gustavus Vasa Fox, who claimed to have devised an effective plan for the relief of Sumter." p. (326)

Fox came up with the plan while Buchannan was still in office. "Scott liked the plan; so did then war secretary Holt." p.(327) "But President Buchanan had rejected it, apparently fearing a repeat of the Star of the West debacle." p.(327)

"Since then Fox had revised his plan, and now, on March 14, he presented it to Lincoln and his cabinet...Lincoln found it compelling; similarly he found the thirty-nine-year-old Fox to be a forceful, dynamic evangelist for its execution." p.(327)

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[rightwinger]

How about you address my questions in post 491?

I’m betting you opposed most modern wars, yet support Lincoln warring on Americans. Do you know the definition of treason as spelled out in the Constitution? You do, because I’ve told you numerous times over the years we’ve debated this topic.

You whined twice about me addressing your questions
When I did, you just ignored my answer

 

[Quantrill]

continued from post #(518)

Much wrangling and chaos took place in order to get Fox's expedition together. But he finally did.

Again, quotes are from (The Demon of Unrest, Erik Larson, Crown Publishing Group, 2024).

"In New York, Capt. Gustavus Fox, in charge of the expedition to Fort Sumter but unaware of the Powhatan confusion, speedily gathered troops, supplies, and ships. He would lead a small but mighty fleet of steam-powered vessels: three ocean going tugs, the Thomas Freeborn, Yankee, and Uncle Ben; a large transport, the Baltic, carrying troops and supplies; a secondary transport, the Illinois, to carry whatever the Baltic could not; and most critical, four large warships: the Pawnee, Harriet Lane, Pocahontas--and, he presumed, the Powhatan, the most powerful of all." p. (392)

"By Monday, April 8, Captain Fox was ready to launch His Fleet." p.(396)

This was the military attack force sent to reinforce Anderson at Fort Sumter. They were not just trying to bring food.

Quantrill