Zone1 Are all people equally valuable?

[ding]

Amen! And wow, you brought things back to the actual topic in that last sentence, thank you, lol!

And then I took it off track with post #179.

But I promise I'll stop there. I couldn't help myself. The devil made me do it.

 

[ding]

To the credit of Christianity, most of the different churches stopped sending unbaptized babies to the firelake.

But that's no comfort to the hundreds of millions who went there before the bible's revisions.

How can we respect that? The churches that abolished that belief weren't worse than the ones that still do it.

It's always so refreshing to hear what a militant atheist intent on subordinating Christianity has to say about Christianity.

 

[Arlette]

I agree that facts establish truth. So my rejecting the ridiculously large positive feedbacks associated with CO2 is an atheism of sorts?

It's a word used to describe unbelievers. A religious term. There are no words to identify people who reject astrology or alchemy for example.

 

[ding]

It's a word used to describe unbelievers. A religious term. There are no words to identify people who reject astrology or alchemy for example.

Maybe the difference is that short of studying what God created faith is the realm of philosophy whereas astrology and alchemy try to pass themselves off as science. Just spit balling here. I'm not heavily invested in this explanation.

 

[Arlette]

Maybe the difference is that short of studying what God created faith is the realm of philosophy whereas astrology and alchemy try to pass themselves off as science. Just spit balling here. I'm not heavily invested in this explanation.

Me neither. However, for millions every word in the Bible is pure truth. Even completely ridiculous stuff like the creation story. For an atheist truth and fact belong together. A fact free document can't be truth.

 

[forkintheroad7]

You're claiming that God loves humanity, yet your version of God keeps human beings conscious in hell for all eternity, for not believing in your Christian religion and dogmas.

That is NOT what Christians believe, it is a parody. It is a lie that God sends people to Hell. They send themselves because they refuse to face, shall we say, "moral reality." When you sin egregiously (adultery, abortion, etc) you damage your soul to the point you would not "fit in" in Heaven (for lack of a better way to put it). An analogy: If you are invited by the president to the White House, you don't wallow in the mud beforehand and wear your dirty clothes to the meeting (unless maybe you want to make some kind of point, but the president will not be amused and you will be escorted out). It's not that God is a snob, it is that Heaven is holy and pure. It is LOVE (which means loving yourself enough to give up sin that harms you) and if you don't have that love, you not only wouldn't fit in but would ruin things for everyone there. Yes, your sins torment you in Hell, but it is because you chose those sins over holiness/goodness/truth/peace and love. Yes, God lets us choose... So rant away at Him over that, but as they say "it is what it is." God does not change.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Unfortunately you'll get the same response from those 'fake religions' Fork

what? I don't get what you're saying. What same response? ?

 

[sparky]

what? I don't get what you're saying. What same response

That they are the 'truth' , despite all that is on this rock that would counter it Fork

Rise above to an objective stance Fork, all these 'religions' that claim to be the word of whatever God they bow to all hate the sh*t outta any others, h*ll , they even hate themselves should they not bow without question


What does that tell you?????

~S~

 

[forkintheroad7]

That they are the 'truth' , despite all that is on this rock that would counter it Fork

Rise above to an objective stance Fork, all these 'religions' that claim to be the word of whatever God they bow to all hate the sh*t outta any others, h*ll , they even hate themselves should they not bow without question


What does that tell you?????

~S~

so let me get this straight. You are saying that all religions are bad and make you hate others?
I don't hate others. I hate what they say, at times, because it sounds hateful or arrogant or whatever, but I don't hate people. I have far more compassion for others now that I've become a stronger Catholic. Jesus is the only one who can enable someone to have compassion on others.. real compassion (which means trying to help people not to believe lies, etc)
I don't understand the thing you say about objective truth. I have been pursuing objective truth for decades.. Frankly, I don't see a lot of others doing that. In any case, I am still baffled by what you say in this post.. Maybe if you could write out your main point in one concise sentence.. Maybe I'm more tired than I thought or something but just dont understand what you are primarily saying.

 

[ding]

Me neither. However, for millions every word in the Bible is pure truth. Even completely ridiculous stuff like the creation story. For an atheist truth and fact belong together. A fact free document can't be truth.

Truth like the universe popped into existence not be created from existing matter?

 

[Arlette]

Truth like the universe popped into existence not be created from existing matter?

So we don't know everything yet. Is that a reason to plug every hole in our knowledge with supernatural nonsense?

 

[ding]

So we don't know everything yet. Is that a reason to plug every hole in our knowledge with supernatural nonsense?

No, it's not. But what we do know is that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce life and intelligence. And it did so in such an improbable manner being improbably hardwired to produce life and intelligence. So how do you know it wasn't intentional?

 

[Arlette]

No, it's not. But what we do know is that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce life and intelligence. And it did so in such an improbable manner being improbably hardwired to produce life and intelligence. So how do you know it wasn't intentional?

Just use your handle - confront reality

 

[sparky]

so let me get this straight. You are saying that all religions are bad and make you hate others?
I don't hate others. I hate what they say, at times, because it sounds hateful or arrogant or whatever, but I don't hate people. I have far more compassion for others now that I've become a stronger Catholic. Jesus is the only one who can enable someone to have compassion on others.. real compassion (which means trying to help people not to believe lies, etc)
I don't understand the thing you say about objective truth. I have been pursuing objective truth for decades.. Frankly, I don't see a lot of others doing that. In any case, I am still baffled by what you say in this post.. Maybe if you could write out your main point in one concise sentence.. Maybe I'm more tired than I thought or something but just dont understand what you are primarily saying.

I don't hate others Fork, religions teach us to do that

If you could delve into their history ,that is exactly what you'll find.......no compassion unless it's hidden behind obedience , there's exists nothing about religion (and i mean this of ALL religion) that is not a control freak manifestation of the 'word' of God , which they've parlayed to their earthy whim

Myself, i've a greater faith than most, knowing things celestial will never be imparted by those terrestrials thinking they've the whole story

Sorry, i might be no more than a rural pig farmer, but i 'get it', what is amazing is all that do not, ergo they are purposely ignorant , or bow to that which seeks control

~S~

 

[TruthNotBS]

I wouldn't say teaching civility and providing hope is gobbledygook. But why are you basing your beliefs of God on what this or that religion teaches? Or more accurately what your selective understanding of it teaches? Because I really don't have the time or desire to correct you on religions not your own. Suffice it to say that if every person held your opinions there would be no one in any church. But since there are a great many people who do belong to churches, the most logical explanation is that you aren't seeing the full picture. Bottom line, you have plenty of examples of places that abolished religion. They were all worse than the ones that didn't.

I wouldn't say teaching civility and providing hope is gobbledygook.

Obviously, but is that really what Christianity is doing? This religious, Christian-based "civility" and "hope" comes with a lot of unnecessary baggage, which isn't very good. Whether it's our blind support of the Jewish Zionist State of Israhell, or the American Protestant/WASP view of the poor, which in general, blames them for living in scarcity and not working hard enough (i.e. The so-called "Protestant Work Ethic"). The rich are good, they deserve all of their riches, because they all worked for it, whereas the poor are lazy, and stupid, and hence deserving of their self-inflicted deprivation. In general, anti-Science and in many ways misanthropic, anti-human. Christians see the world, as consigned to destruction and hence why invest too much time and energy into it? It's all going to be destroyed in Armageddon..etc.

Could it be that your Christian civility and hope is a false one? Based on unnecessary assumptions, that aren't true? It's based upon a vast cornucopia of hocus-pocus, religious gobbledygook. All of those Christians that could be more pro-science and find practical solutions here on Earth for our mortal, often pain-ridden human condition, rather than looking for one in another dimension or throwing up their hands and saying "Oh well, that's the world. One day we will go to heaven and that's the REAL LIFE, not this one, the one we actually have now, but a future life in the ethereal realm of the spirits".

But why are you basing your beliefs of God on what this or that religion teaches? Or more accurately what your selective understanding of it teaches? Because I really don't have the time or desire to correct you on religions not your own. Suffice it to say that if every person held your opinions there would be no one in any church. But since there are a great many people who do belong to churches, the most logical explanation is that you aren't seeing the full picture. Bottom line, you have plenty of examples of places that abolished religion. They were all worse than the ones that didn't.

No place ever abolished religion, not even the USSR or now, the DPRK-North Korea. And you're also not factoring in the fact that it was the Western capitalist powers, mostly the religious world that invaded Soviet Russia after WW1, in 1918, forcing communists to defend themselves against a foreign invasion, which led to the centralization of power. What was once truly a soviet republic (i.e. soviet being the Russian word for "council", or a democratic worker's community council), became a more authoritarian-based system, with a strong leader, to survive.

Religion is often used by the ruling class to control the masses, especially when said religion tells its adherents to obey their slave-masters and do as they're told. Christianity is one of those religions, unfortunately, that tells the faithful, to serve their masters as if they were serving God. In the 1940s the Soviet Union (Soviet in name only, because by then power was much more centralized and in the hands of Stalin - although still democratic in some ways, not as it was in the beginning), was invaded by 4 million German Nazis. Now, the Nazis in many ways were non-Marxist, religious socialists. They were right-wing socialists.

Some good people go to church, but that says nothing about whether what they believe is true or not. Religion as I mentioned in a previous post, is just an obsolete human coping mechanism to handle the brutal realities of human life. A better solution to our precarious situation, living in a universe that is constantly trying to kill us, is by developing technology that allows us to have dominion over our environment and have more control over our lives, avoiding being overwhelmed by chaos, disease, and death. In other words, humanity must work together to save itself. Save yourself, you are the answer. it's there within you. The potential and power is there.

 

[BreezeWood]

That is NOT what Christians believe, it is a parody. It is a lie that God sends people to Hell.

fork denies they will be punished by the heavens for their bad deeds as their false religion for the duration of their sentence than for all eternity as their bible claims. is foolhardy in the least.

 

[TruthNotBS]

typo correction: their - they're

 

[forkintheroad7]

I don't hate others Fork, religions teach us to do that

If you could delve into their history ,that is exactly what you'll find.......no compassion unless it's hidden behind obedience , there's exists nothing about religion (and i mean this of ALL religion) that is not a control freak manifestation of the 'word' of God , which they've parlayed to their earthy whim

Myself, i've a greater faith than most, knowing things celestial will never be imparted by those terrestrials thinking they've the whole story

Sorry, i might be no more than a rural pig farmer, but i 'get it', what is amazing is all that do not, ergo they are purposely ignorant , or bow to that which seeks control

~S~

You are likely correct about MOST religions, but the True Religion that Christ gave us does not at all teach anyone to hate. Like I said, I hate what people say.. I hate their arrogance and their unwillingness to repent, but I do not hate them. I try to pray often for my enemies. The Virgin Mother appeared in Fatima 1917 and asked the children to pray for people on their way to Hell, so that they don't go there. She asked them to also offer up their sufferings for that cause. You can also, per Catholic Church teaching, offer up your sufferings (which God of course allows us to have...) for the sake of YOUR own sins, to expiate the damage caused by them. For example, if you commit adultery, that obviously harms your relationship w/ your spouse, sometimes irreparably and it always causes damage to your soul, your relationship with a Holy God. So you can offer up the various sufferings of life for the sake of being purified from your own sins. But she appeared to children, who did not have mortal sin (except she told the boy he would have to pray many rosaries before entering Heaven.. I don't know if she told the girls that).
There are so many false religions in the world that it is no wonder you think as you do. However, just because 99% of them are false, does not mean God did not establish a Church. He definitely did (Mt 16:18). The sinners have all but destroyed True Catholicism, yet it cannot be utterly destroyed (same passage). It's just scattered today... (LONG story)

 

[TruthNotBS]

You are likely correct about MOST religions, but the True Religion that Christ gave us does not at all teach anyone to hate. Like I said, I hate what people say.. I hate their arrogance and their unwillingness to repent, but I do not hate them. I try to pray often for my enemies. The Virgin Mother appeared in Fatima 1917 and asked the children to pray for people on their way to Hell, so that they don't go there. She asked them to also offer up their sufferings for that cause. You can also, per Catholic Church teaching, offer up your sufferings (which God of course allows us to have...) for the sake of YOUR own sins, to expiate the damage caused by them. For example, if you commit adultery, that obviously harms your relationship w/ your spouse, sometimes irreparably and it always causes damage to your soul, your relationship with a Holy God. So you can offer up the various sufferings of life for the sake of being purified from your own sins. But she appeared to children, who did not have mortal sin (except she told the boy he would have to pray many rosaries before entering Heaven.. I don't know if she told the girls that).
There are so many false religions in the world that it is no wonder you think as you do. However, just because 99% of them are false, does not mean God did not establish a Church. He definitely did (Mt 16:18). The sinners have all but destroyed True Catholicism, yet it cannot be utterly destroyed (same passage). It's just scattered today... (LONG story)

 

[BreezeWood]

Like I said, I hate what people say.. I hate their arrogance and their unwillingness to repent, but I do not hate them.

christianity, the desert religions in a nutshell ... hating everything, everyone and believing all but them needs to repent for not worshiping the forgeries and fallacies of their self serving bibles.