AOC Is A Communist

[psikeyhackr]

It's a Free country!

When was the last time you heard a capitalist say that accounting should be mandatory in the schools? But Adam Smith wrote "read, write and account" multiple times in Wealth of Nations. DUH!

 

[Soupnazi630]

Socialism and its objective, communism, is democratic. The USSR was never communist, it was socialist. The reality is that the type of socialism that identifies as "democratic socialism" in Western Europe, has often been a tool of the capitalists, to keep socialism or the working class under their control. If the government is democratic, under the control of worker councils, then there's no reason why it can't centrally plan the economy in collaboration with worker-run factories and cooperatives. Eventually, advanced technology will force society to adopt socialist central planning. The democratic socialism that believes capitalism will last forever, is serving the interests of the capitalists at the expense of the working class and democracy.

Communism and socialism are tyrannical they are never democratic. The difference between two is merely a matter of drgree much like the difference between manslaughter and murder.Haning different adjectives on them changes nothing.

Economies cannot be planned regardless of technology this is why socialism / will ebver siucceed regardless of advanced technology

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Socialism and its objective, communism, is democratic. The USSR was never communist, it was socialist. The reality is that the type of socialism that identifies as "democratic socialism" in Western Europe, has often been a tool of the capitalists, to keep socialism or the working class under their control. If the government is democratic, under the control of worker councils, then there's no reason why it can't centrally plan the economy in collaboration with worker-run factories and cooperatives. Eventually, advanced technology will force society to adopt socialist central planning. The democratic socialism that believes capitalism will last forever, is serving the interests of the capitalists at the expense of the working class and democracy.

Let’s get a little concrete here, shall we?

Can we agree that “Democratic Socialists” like AOC (or George Orwell) are or were not “Communists.” Yes?

Surely you agree such Democratic Socialists are NOT and were not “Marxist-Leninists” in favor of building a “vanguard party” to lead a “dictatorship of the proletariat” over many generations, right?

How about you? Do you support any particular “vanguard party”? Or are you just making “general propaganda” for a futuresque “communism”? Do you at least agree with me that no such vanguard party exists at present? Do you think that a revolutionary party once in power cannot degenerate into a one party dictatorship or even a totalitarian bureaucratic collectivist class? Has there been even a single revolutionary “Marxist-Leninist” communist party that has not degenerated (or lost its revolutionary character) within a single generation or two?

I do not deny that under imperialist pressure “building socialism” in backward countries — or a single island like Cuba— is necessarily difficult, or impossible, or that today’s China may not one day evolve into a more democratic place. That is exactly what I would hope for, just as I want to see the U.S. end its half century economic sanctions against Cuba.

Earlier in your long comment #594, you seemed to accuse me of making excuses for vicious capitalists who wage bloody imperialist wars and use economic sanctions to attack their enemies. I am no “working-class apologist” for imperialism, nor do I “demonize socialists.” I also never argue that “capitalism will exist forever.”

I spent a lifetime trying to “raise the consciousness” of some of my “brainwashed” fellow workers. Unfortunately too many millions of them do support unrestrained capitalism, even admiring conmen like Donald Trump.

I’m a retired blue collar worker and ex-union activist, for many years I’ve been a radical social democrat and “internationalist.” I worked with REAL workers in a major integrated union. I’ve read all the Marxist-Leninist “classic” literature too. I lived in Communist China for eight years. I know a thing or two you clearly don’t.

I try to look at the world we live in realistically, and not with rose-colored glasses. I’m no nihilist, however. At the beginning of the 20th century many revolutionary Marxists believed there was an urgent imperative to choose “Socialism or Barbarism.” Two world wars and the development of nuclear weapons should show us all what capitalist “barbarism” — or even just arrogance, greed and miscalculation — can lead to. The weakening of the world socialist movement, the Cold War victory of the U.S., the collapse of the bureaucratic planned economy of the USSR, the economic emergence of “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics” — with its one-party (now one-man) dictatorship — offers no obvious guarantees that civilization will get through even the next hundred years … in any form.

The only point I will grant you is that should we get through the next hundred years or so without a nuclear catastrophe, should we solve major ecological problems, should a new world government or association be established that administers a much more productive economy in the future, the possibilities for a long and relatively happy future for humanity improve dramatically. Without a true oligarchy of capitalists or a “Big Brother” dictatorship sitting on top of an impoverished mass of peons, call it what you will, I expect future generations will find life quite amazing.

 

[Red Front]

Let’s get a little concrete here, shall we?

Can we agree that “Democratic Socialists” like AOC (or George Orwell) are or were not “Communists.” Yes?

Surely you agree such Democratic Socialists are NOT and were not “Marxist-Leninists” in favor of building a “vanguard party” to lead a “dictatorship of the proletariat” over many generations, right?

How about you? Do you support any particular “vanguard party”? Or are you just making “general propaganda” for a futuresque “communism”? Do you at least agree with me that no such vanguard party exists at present? Do you think that a revolutionary party once in power cannot degenerate into a one party dictatorship or even a totalitarian bureaucratic collectivist class? Has there been even a single revolutionary “Marxist-Leninist” communist party that has not degenerated (or lost its revolutionary character) within a single generation or two?

I do not deny that under imperialist pressure “building socialism” in backward countries — or a single island like Cuba— is necessarily difficult, or impossible, or that today’s China may not one day evolve into a more democratic place. That is exactly what I would hope for, just as I want to see the U.S. end its half century economic sanctions against Cuba.

Earlier in your long comment #594, you seemed to accuse me of making excuses for vicious capitalists who wage bloody imperialist wars and use economic sanctions to attack their enemies. I am no “working-class apologist” for imperialism, nor do I “demonize socialists.” I also never argue that “capitalism will exist forever.”

I spent a lifetime trying to “raise the consciousness” of some of my “brainwashed” fellow workers. Unfortunately too many millions of them do support unrestrained capitalism, even admiring conmen like Donald Trump.

I’m a retired blue collar worker and ex-union activist, for many years I’ve been a radical social democrat and “internationalist.” I worked with REAL workers in a major integrated union. I’ve read all the Marxist-Leninist “classic” literature too. I lived in Communist China for eight years. I know a thing or two you clearly don’t.

I try to look at the world we live in realistically, and not with rose-colored glasses. I’m no nihilist, however. At the beginning of the 20th century many revolutionary Marxists believed there was an urgent imperative to choose “Socialism or Barbarism.” Two world wars and the development of nuclear weapons should show us all what capitalist “barbarism” — or even just arrogance, greed and miscalculation — can lead to. The weakening of the world socialist movement, the Cold War victory of the U.S., the collapse of the bureaucratic planned economy of the USSR, the economic emergence of “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics” — with its one-party (now one-man) dictatorship — offers no obvious guarantees that civilization will get through even the next hundred years … in any form.

The only point I will grant you is that should we get through the next hundred years or so without a nuclear catastrophe, should we solve major ecological problems, should a new world government or association be established that administers a much more productive economy in the future, the possibilities for a long and relatively happy future for humanity improve dramatically. Without a true oligarchy of capitalists or a “Big Brother” dictatorship sitting on top of an impoverished mass of peons, call it what you will, I expect future generations will find life quite amazing.

I'm not going to answer a long wall of questions. Western European socialist parties are Marxist, but yes I agree, not Leninist. The Marxist Leninists, like myself, don't add the word "democratic" to socialism or socialist, because we find it unnecessarily redundant. The word socialism includes the idea of democracy, so from the Marxist-Leninist perspective, there's no reason to add the extra "democratic" label to it, as if to say that socialism isn't democratic and needs to be further defined as such.

All human organizations and institutions can fail or fall into corruption, including socialist and yes even capitalist-run organizations and institutions. Humans are flawed hence all of their efforts will be subject to error. Nonetheless, as I've already detailed, as advanced automation develops, the need for human labor is diminished and eventually eliminated, to the point that we can no longer sustain a marketplace with customers. Under capitalism, production is based on profits, which are paid by paying consumers who earn their money through their jobs. The more advanced our technology is, the more efficient and automated production becomes, reducing and eventually eliminating wage-labor. That entails the end of capitalism.

The capitalists and their brainwashed serfs will fight tooth and nail to avoid that from happening, so ironically what will occur is that the ruling elites will maintain ownership and control of the technology (patents, licenses. etc) and means of production (i.e. the facilities, machinery. etc), while the working-class that needs to sell its labor-power (its life) to capitalists, in order to live, will be unemployed and perhaps at best dependents of the capitalist-run state. It's the wealthy capitalist elites who will by necessity become communists among themselves, consigning the peasants, to the compost heap. That's the irony. The rich and powerful become the high-tech communists and the peasants or working class is dispatched.

How do the tech-lords eliminate their former, now worthless employees? Poverty, pandemics, lack of access to social services like an education and healthcare, crime, incarceration, and war. People will go hungry, like in the film Elysium. That's essentially what happens. The wealthy who were raving about the "evils of socialism", will become the socialists, among themselves, living in well-protected enclaves of opulence, luxury, and extreme abundance, while you and I and our children will be consigned to brutal austerities and poverty. Why should 94% of the population (the working-class) allow 6% of the population (the rich and powerful) to get away with that? You're defending a system, that is enslaving you and will eventually kill you.

What socialists are proposing is that we all own the means of production together, and organize the manufacturing and delivery of the products and services that we use, to meet our needs rather than for profit. We can have a democratic government (democracy in politics) with democracy in the workplace. Today we just have a semblance of democracy in politics and an absolute dictatorship in the workplace. Let's democratize not just politics but the workplace as well, where we spend most of our waking hours. This is a rational, reasonable request, but the contrarians want to pretend that this is impossible and that we should continue with the current state of affairs. No, we don't and we can't. We have to evolve or we will die.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I'm not going to answer a long wall of questions. Western European socialist parties are Marxist, but yes I agree, not Leninist. The Marxist Leninists, like myself, don't add the word "democratic" to socialism or socialist, because we find it unnecessarily redundant. The word socialism includes the idea of democracy, so from the Marxist-Leninist perspective, there's no reason to add the extra "democratic" label to it, as if to say that socialism isn't democratic and needs to be further defined as such.

This is a [more or less] orthodox answer. Fine. I didn’t meant to put you on the spot about any particular “vanguard party.” It is useful to me just to know that today somebody with your politics can still call yourself a “Marxist-Leninist.”…

It's the wealthy capitalist elites who will by necessity become communists among themselves, consigning the peasants, to the compost heap. That's the irony. The rich and powerful become the high-tech communists and the peasants or working class is dispatched….

The wealthy who were raving about the "evils of socialism", will become the socialists, among themselves, living in well-protected enclaves of opulence, luxury, and extreme abundance, while you and I and our children will be consigned to brutal austerities and poverty. Why should 94% of the population (the working-class) allow 6% of the population (the rich and powerful) to get away with that? You're defending a system, that is enslaving you and will eventually kill you.

These are much less “orthodox” views on who can or will become “socialists” or “communists” — or ultimately lead the transition to planned economy — an old “Revisionist” and also a modern anti-communist view shared by many who today oppose socialism in any shape or form.

Of course the idea of “socialism for the rich” or “national socialism” have different histories. I certainly do not support such ideas and it is precisely such ideas I think we need to be on guard against. I do believe part of defending the “peons” must be a radical social-democratic defense of personal and political “liberty rights.” On the other hand, I agree on the important role technical and highly skilled workers and even “progressive capitalists” can play in the future.

 

[Red Front]

This is an orthodox answer. Fine. I didn’t meant to put you on the spot about any “vanguard party.” It is useful to me just to know that today somebody with your politics can still call yourself a “Marxist-Leninist.”…




These are much less “orthodox” views on who can or will become “socialists” — or perhaps ultimately lead a transition to socialism — an old “Revisionist” and also a modern anti-communist view shared by many who today oppose socialism in any shape or form.

Of course the idea of “socialism for the rich” or “national socialism” have different histories. I certainly do not support such ideas and it is precisely such ideas I think we need to be on guard against. The important role both technical and skilled workers and “progressive capitalists” can play in the future is one, however, I do agree with.

The wealthy elites who are now crapping on everything that is socialist, are going to at least, adopt a non-profit system of production among their own class. This will inevitably occur out of necessity if the working class allows itself to be under the heel of the wealthy ruling class, in what is essentially a techno-feudal society.

I doubt it will work out that way for the rich and what we're actually going to see is the working-class gradually taking the power of the state and democratizing both the government and the workplace, until we fully transition to a high-tech socialist society. The younger generation knows what is happening and they're not going to allow the wealthy elites to pulverize them (Soylent Green isn't going to fly with our kids). No Soylent Green:

​

 

[konradv]

So, you're saying she is a Communist.

No, I’m saying she’s an independent.

 

[Red Front]

The boom and bust cycle.

The man who stares at the screen and is hosting the feast for the capitalists with all of the servants is the banker.​

 

[dudmuck]

So, you're saying she is a Communist.

 

[francoHFW]

Communism and socialism are tyrannical they are never democratic. The difference between two is merely a matter of drgree much like the difference between manslaughter and murder.Haning different adjectives on them changes nothing.

Economies cannot be planned regardless of technology this is why socialism / will ebver siucceed regardless of advanced technology

meanwhile, in the real world, every socialist and every socialist party in a democracy ever has always been for democracy and fair capitalism with a good safety net like every modern country but the United States, because emails and pedophilia for the Dupes.... Communism is a dictatorship that owns all business and industry, and will always be a disgusting corrupt authoritarian mess, and never elected. The Socialists won And the Communists disappeared with the aid from the Soviet Union. Stop being a brainwashed functional moron....

 

[DudleySmith]

But we already knew that, didn't we? Birds of a feather flock together. They even call themselves socialists. Guess they weren't too far off.

AOC former aide now leader of New York Communist Party

A former aide to Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is now listed as being on the executive committee of the New York Communist Party.

www.aol.com

She can't spell it. She's just another parrot. They have no real principles, just fashions they follow.

 

[DudleySmith]

Communists disappeared with the aid from the Soviet Union

lol what a poor liar you are.

 

[francoHFW]

And I don't give a crap what the Nazis and the Communists and the New BS GOP have to say about it, they are the biggest liars in history....

 

[francoHFW]

lol what a poor liar you are.

So where are all the communists, ignoramus? They are only in China North Korea Cuba and Vietnam with a gun to their heads. This chick has to be a little nuts and I'm not talking about AOC. The only people talking about communists are brainwashed functional morons like you and your scumbag pundits... The only people who want dictatorship are Republicans who want trump and martial law, absolute idiocy in other words....

 

[francoHFW]

She can't spell it. She's just another parrot. They have no real principles, just fashions they follow.

Only English speakers who are totally brainwashed by 150 years of UK super Capitalist Garbage propaganda into believing that socialism and communism are the same thing. There's only one difference LOL, socialism is democratic and communism is not and I don't give a damn what the Nazis, communists and the new BS GOP have to say about it. Biggest liars in history.... every socialist and Socialist Party ever in a democracy has been for fair capitalism and a good safety net and democracy. You idiots think a living wage health care for all day care paid parental leave taxing the rich for God's sake are all communism lOL. Not. Your love and admiration for lying scumbag megarich POSs is noted....dupe.

 

[Soupnazi630]

meanwhile, in the real world, every socialist and every socialist party in a democracy ever has always been for democracy and fair capitalism with a good safety net like every modern country but the United States, because emails and pedophilia for the Dupes.... Communism is a dictatorship that owns all business and industry, and will always be a disgusting corrupt authoritarian mess, and never elected. The Socialists won And the Communists disappeared with the aid from the Soviet Union. Stop being a brainwashed functional moron....

Wrong

Socialism has never been for democracy in a democracy. They do not support capitalism in a democracy.

Explain Thomas Wolff.

Stop being an ignorant dumbfuck and learn about the real world which you are out of touch with

 

[francoHFW]

Wrong

Socialism has never been for democracy in a democracy. They do not support capitalism in a democracy.

Explain Thomas Wolff.

Stop being an ignorant dumbfuck and learn about the real world which you are out of touch with

You're talking about English speakers (Mainly conservatives) who are all brainwashed idiots about socialism and Communism, which are conflated. The UK Canada Australia New Zealand have socialism but they have to call it social democracy or green or Labour or God knows what. Italy France Germany Sweden Romania Russia etcetera Etcetera have all had socialist and Communist Parties competing in democracies and the Socialists always win. Communism has only been put in by invasion or revolution and does not work. Wake Up and smell the coffee brainwashed functional moron...

Conservative English speakers are so obnoxious on the subject that socialist parties around the world have changed their names to social democracy or democratic socialists or green et cetera et cetera.

 

[DudleySmith]

And I don't give a crap what the Nazis and the Communists and the New BS GOP have to say about it, they are the biggest liars in history....

lol Throw out some more crap to deflect from your idiotic posts.

 

[DudleySmith]

Only English speakers who are totally brainwashed by 150 years of UK super Capitalist Garbage propaganda into believing that socialism and communism are the same thing. There's only one difference LOL, socialism is democratic and communism is not and I don't give a damn what the Nazis, communists and the new BS GOP have to say about it. Biggest liars in history.... every socialist and Socialist Party ever in a democracy has been for fair capitalism and a good safety net and democracy. You idiots think a living wage health care for all day care paid parental leave taxing the rich for God's sake are all communism lOL. Not. Your love and admiration for lying scumbag megarich POSs is noted....dupe.

Only an idiot writes long screeds about stuff he doesn't know shit about, like you do.

 

[DudleySmith]

So where are all the communists, ignoramus? They are only in China North Korea Cuba and Vietnam with a gun to their heads. This chick has to be a little nuts and I'm not talking about AOC. The only people talking about communists are brainwashed functional morons like you and your scumbag pundits... The only people who want dictatorship are Republicans who want trump and martial law, absolute idiocy in other words....

So you don't know, and have to ask. Typical.